black demons (aka black zombies) is racist?

[ToyMan]

just finished watching black demons, and i was underwhelmed. you see, i had heard that the film was blatantly racist. of course, i didn't seek it out for this reason alone, it just happened to be part of a boxed set that i snagged at a decent price.

while i can certainly say that the theme of the film is racial, in nature, i don't see how the film drew the criticism that i'd read in a few reviews.

i mean, the story involves 6 black slaves who were mutilated and hung coming back from the dead to revenge themselves. so, that's racial. not racist.

i dunno, maybe i'm jaded and i've seen too many sleazy italian gore flicks. you tell me.

[Menard]

I'm wondering how you are defining racial in this context.

I have not seen this film and have only read a synopsis of it. Some parts of the synopsis, without even the mention of the term racist, do make it sound like there could be a racist element to the film. But I have not seen it and that would be basing it solely on hearsay for my part.

The premise, from what I have read, is that six black slaves tried to effect an escape, but were caught and hung for it.

The weakness of the backstory aside, should the dead have been raised and torn a path for anyone living, that would be one story. The suggestion in the synopsis is that they specifically hunt white people as revenge for what was done to them; not to mention that they were raised by a Voodoo ceremony which I presume was done by black people.

If the film is only showing black people in a negative light with the intention to do bad things to white people, it could definitely be racist. It is subtext, but so is the all too common movie element of the black guy who sacrifices himself saving others, suggesting that it is better for a black person to die to save white people than the other way around.

Those are just assumptions on my part, though, and not an analysis.


As I mentioned before, though, I am not qualified to answer that for you for two reasons:

1) I have not seen the movie
2) I am not black

Asking a group of white guys if something is racist is kind of like asking a group of guys what PMS feels like.

[Underbelly]

I agree. It all depends on the way the black characters were portrayed in the film. Being a black zombie or black demons in itself can not be considered racist.

[ToyMan]

well, by "racial", i mean that the film has race-related injustices at the center of the theme.

[Menard]

It would be more appropriate to use the term "colourist".

I've had several potential responses to that go through my head; none of them were kind. Of course, that would have also been presumptuous of me, and thusly unfair to you. I am asking, though, if you could expand on what you mean by that?

[Psycho Circus]

That race does not just mean colour.

[Menard]

That race does not just mean colour.

What does race mean then?

Scientifically, race is used to define variances within a species.

Racism is not scientific, and racists are not basing their hatred on scientific data or study. They are basing their hatred on clearly distinguishable differences; namely skin color.

Racism is an ugly thing that deserves an ugly name. Trying to lighten the term by calling it colourist (colourism) basically comes off like being politically correct toward racism.

Colourist?

Calling someone who hates people for nothing more than their skin color a colourist seems to be making light of it. A racist is a disgusting thing, and deserves no less than to be called a racist.

You really didn't answer my question.

Where are you coming from with this?

Does the term colourist seem worse to you than racist?

[Psycho Circus]

Why are you getting so annoyed? You have totally taken what I have said the wrong way. I am in NO WAY trying to say that the term is worse that "racist", I am not saying either is acceptable! I am just stating something that has been put to me by other people (WHO ARE NOT RACIST). I don't belive this film to be racist, that is my original point. It depends on your point of view. All I was getting at is that the term "racism" can cover a broad spectrum - "race is used to define variances within a species" as you put it, is basically what I was getting at, for no purpose of antagonising anyone.

[ToyMan]

i think that the term "colorist" (we don't spell it with a U here in the states...) applies more to someone who treats hair in salons than it does to people who bear grudges against people of color. the term "racist" works just fine. i don't really see the point of the distinction that you're trying to make here.

[Menard]

Why are you getting so annoyed?

Pardon me and many others who might find calling a racist a colourist to be a joke at the least. The suggestion doesn't rub well.

I am not trying to suggest anything negative about you. At first I had a negative reaction to your term. Though, as I mentioned, I felt that was unfair as it was presumptuous on my part to take it at a superficial level without understanding the comment.

You have totally taken what I have said the wrong way. I am in NO WAY trying to say that the term is worse that "racist", I am not saying either is acceptable! I am just stating something that has been put to me by other people (WHO ARE NOT RACIST).

Definitives can get you into trouble.

I was not born not to be a racist. I have had my moments in the past of which I am not proud of.

Can I define myself as not having one shred of racism in me? No.

We have all grown up within social groups (family groups if you prefer) where racism was just like any other part of the day.

Despite our best efforts, there are things that will most likely linger. I work hard at recognizing this part of me and working to overcome it.

I have very strong reactions against racism and racists; so there are still lingering parts of me I don't like.

The suggestion that people who come up with the term 'colourist' as being more appropriate that racist are definitely not racists is silly. Perhaps they might actively oppose racism, but just the suggestion of the term colourist comes off like the too commonly used line 'I am not racist...but'.

The term just doesn't rub well. Colourist is not a term of hatred; it's a made up term and makes me wonder about the motives behind it.

I don't belive this film to be racist, that is my original point. It depends on your point of view. All I was getting at is that the term "racism" can cover a broad spectrum - "race is used to define variances within a species" as you put it, is basically what I was getting at...

That's fine. I've not seen this film and I cannot comment on it.

I don't see a point in saying that a film is not racist, then trying to broaden the meaning of racist.

We all know what racism is.

When someone asks 'is this movie racist?', we know they are not asking if it discriminates against green people, or polka dot people, or anybody else other than black people.

Race in and of itself is an artificial designation to delineate differences between people based on things such as skin color, eyes, average height, etc. Race, though used in scientific classification for the purposes of taxonomy in other species, its applications to humans was primarily based on skin color. Despite all of our differences, we are no different.

Accepting that a racist is someone who discriminates against black people is appropriate. Suggesting a new term for racism due to trying to give it a broader meaning is silly, and people are going to take offense to that.

for no purpose of antagonising anyone.

I don't believe you were trying to antagonize anybody.

There's a difference between arguing about a movie and, oh, calling people who like Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 pill-popping idiots, and discussing racism.

Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 is just a movie and it's just opinions. I'll beat up on people who like stupid movies for being the idiots they are; it's all out of love ( ).

Racism is very real and it's a very sensitive subject.

When I first read your comment, the term colourist, and your suggestion that it was more appropriate, sounded racist to me.

It's a very unkind thing, IMO, to suggest that someone is racist. It's not an opinion about a movie, it is something that defines someone. I wanted to know more about your remark.

I don't believe you intended anything derogatory by it, but simply were adding something to the conversation which you felt was appropriate.

Yes, the suggestion and definition of the term colourist is dumb, for many of the reasons I have already mentioned. If people are telling you this is an appropriate term, even more appropriate, while at the same time disparaging the idea that there is any racism behind it, I would suggest that you stop listening to these people.

I was trying in my replies to avoid any language that suggested anything derogatory toward you. If, however, I made you feel in any way that I was suggesting such toward you, then I did not succeed and I do apologize for that.

[Psycho Circus]

I wasn't trying to say anything was actually "appropriate" at all, just giving a point of view, that is not particularly my own. I didn't realise that what I was putting came across as offensive. I don't want to be judged on words that get taken the wrong way, they are just words. For the record I am completely against racism and any forms of discrimination and if you knew me in reality at all, you would know full well that was the case. There was a time in my life when I stood up for a friend, for racial reasons. I did not hesitate to do so. I could give you every detail, but I don't feel that I have to explain myself any further. I am sorry.

I did not mean anything by it.

I am not implying anything.

I am not suggesting any "new terms".

I am not supporting anything.

Thankyou for your apology anyway. I apologise also.