Way, way, way off topic...but important.

[Chadzilla]

Undoubtedly you will hear more about this in the days to come.  Amazon is offering books put out by Nambla and is causing a ruckus.  I support Free Speech, but this

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967699703/qid=1033165556/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-6134062-6335968?v=glance&n=507846

disturbs me to no end.  It makes my defenses of Free Speech a little more difficult, as this book encourages behavior that is harmful to children.

Then again Victor Salva, Jeepers Creepers and Clownhouse, is a b-movie maker, so there.  I kept it within the sphere of the postings.

Boycott Amazon or not, you decide.

[J.R.]

Ew. Ew, ew, ew. I saw that the ACLU is defending NAMBLA's right to tell pederasts how to molest kids and get away with it. This is the same organization that goes after religious organizations for "forcing their morality on others".

"We believe in equality and the same rights for everyone and all that gay stuff, but you guys are sick!"
-Stan Marsh, South Park, CO.

[Andrew]

First and foremost, I am against what NAMBLA preachers.  This is by what I have read of their standpoints.  My natural reaction is to denounce the book, but what makes me pause is that I have not read it.  Terribly enough, I think that to condemn the book, I must know what it says.  Otherwise I am passing judgment without all the info.  Now, if someone I trust can say "This book is about sodomizing young boys."  Then the writer of the book can go to Hell.

Conversely, I have no intention of buying the book.  If nobody buys the book, we can safely assume it will not get very far.

[ErikJ]

What in the hell is going on in this world?
Words can't even describe the feelings I have
As the father of 3 (2 of them being boys) I am outraged
It doesn't matter Chadzilla if it's off topic to me (can't speak for others)
But it does need to be talked about

[Steven Millan]

                  NAMBLA is releasing a book to the public?!
          Give Me A Goddamn Break!!!!
           I'm sure that Howard Stern and Jerry Springer are warming their hands up for the official guest interview rights for the author of this one.

[Squishy]

Oh, holy crap.

Believe me, Chadzilla, I'm in the middle of a "censorship" arguement elsewhere on this board, and I understand your quandry about where to "draw the line."

Just reading the reviews on the Amazon page gives me the--forgive the pun--Creepers.

Back in '82 or so, I actually received a fundraising call from NAMBLA. I had never heard of them before, and when someone explained what the acronym stood for, I thought they were joking. Ever since, I've WISHED they had been joking.

However! If this generates controversy, so much the better: I read an editorial by George Will a couple of years ago bemoaning the loss of the "social contract"--the idea that certain things simply were not discussed by refined people.

In other words--certainly not Will's--a man would beat his wife, and then they would go to church and pretend to be good, God-fearing people, and she would never say a word about it to the neighbors. And he would just keep beating her.

That "social contract" doomed so many, many children to abuse at the hands of family members, teachers, and clergy. Shame kept the victims silent, the perpetrators safe, and the public complacent. For years, the occasional victim would come forward, and we would shake our heads in denial that such a thing could be true--until the numbers became to large to ignore.

Recently, two girls who were kidnapped and raped--and later rescued when police killed their captor--appeared on television to describe their ordeal. They had no "shame" for being victims. Some people expressly did NOT want to hear what they had to say, but the once the stigma is lifted from the victims, the veil of secrecy falls and the perps stand revealed. The more light that shines on NAMBLA, the sooner they won't be able to find a rock to hide under. Eventually, they won't be able to justify their actions or beliefs, even to themselves.

[Pete B6K]

It is seriously disturbing to me that a book like that exists let alone is on sale in an otherwise respectable shop like Amazon.

Forgive my igonorance but I am now curious what NAMBLA stands for. Judging by this: "when someone explained what the acronym stood for, I thought they were joking. Ever since, I've WISHED they had been joking", I probably shouldn't ask but I am anyway.

I see paedophilia as one of very few entirely unjustifiable crimes. ie. even in some cases of murder you can feel sorry for the murderer, maybe they were driven to it and maybe you understand why they did it. But the only plausible explanation I will ever acceot for paedophilia is mental illness, in which case those responsible need to be either treated or serperated from society.

Pete

[Fearless Freep]

"NAMBLA" I think it stands for "North American Man Boy Love Association"

As the the father of four , including two boys, stuff like NAMBLA trying to legitimize what they do really sickens me.

[Abby]

Chadzilla, I hate to tell you this, but you are the best thing to happen to NAMBLA this week. You are helping them spread their word. You and other "outraged" folks have helped jack up their Amazon sales rank to 111. Even if Amazon removes the title, NAMBLA's message just made it out to a few thousand new folks who never heard of them before.

The fact you are posting that link is really REALLY counterproductive to your point.

**** "The more light that shines on NAMBLA, the sooner they won't be able to find a rock to hide under. Eventually, they won't be able to justify their actions or beliefs, even to themselves." *****

NAMBLA doesn't hide. That's its whole point. It walks the legal line. The real scary people will always remain in the shadows -- they avoid association with NAMBLA precisely because of NAMBLA's high profile. NAMBLA wants, no, it BEGS for controversy and attention. And frankly, most REAL peds (and those wacky Euro shrinks in favor of youthful sexuality) reject its values and its stance as pure advertorial hokum ... or as too overtly dangerous.

NAMBLA works like Al Sharpton. Or Neo-Nazi groups. It knows its rhetoric will be rejected by 999 of a thousand people. It's aiming for the one of a thousand.

If the book does not have illegal content then it is not illegal to sell. If the book contains content in bad taste, then the book is simply repugnant. There are a number of titles on Amazon I find repugnant -- that's what free speech is all about.

As an aside, I will not watch Salva's movies. That's my quiet, personal choice. I think he's scum. I don't ask anyone to join me. It's my trip and mine alone. I don't give the guy attention because I think he's a slime.

I reckon Amazon will ultimately remove the title, but even if it does, NAMBLA already achieved what it wanted and much much more.

[EDIT -- AFTER RESEARCH] Gd-drd-jssh-- Chadzilla --  NAMBLA didn't put this book out. A similar sick doofus in Philly did. And guess what the mission statement is?

"Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers needs to be read by people who would never order it themselves, even if they were aware of its existence, which most aren't. And these people are the ones who need to read the book if it is to fulfill its intended purpose of bringing light to where there has only been darkness before. It will do little good sitting on a boylover's bookshelf, someone who already knows and agrees with what it says."

The sickos are now ranking at 109 on Amazon, kids.

The boylovers pulled the strings and Jerry Falwell danced to dat.

(And as one last edit, if you've kids, and you care, instead of getting upset with Amazon, just make sure no one creepy is living up the street from you:  http://www.shadow-net.com/id60.htm )

[Luke Bannon]

So, NAMBLA that South Park made fun of is acutally real? God, I feel sick!

[John]

>Recently, two girls who were kidnapped and raped--and later rescued when
>police killed their captor

 I know I don't pay a lot of attention to the news, but I completely missed this. Do you have a link for it?

[Squishy]

The story, from ABCNews.

[Squishy]

...and a considerably more sensationalistic NY Post article about the aftermath, and the girls' public appearance.

Amazon.com sales rankings aren't like box office tallies; they rise and fall rapidly and mean little after a single hour's time. Chadzilla has made each of us a little more aware of what's going on in the world out there, and I'll maintain that's ultimately better than pretending the problem doesn't exist.

[nshumate]

Pete B6K wrote:
>
> I see paedophilia as one of very few entirely unjustifiable
> crimes. ie. even in some cases of murder you can feel sorry
> for the murderer, maybe they were driven to it and maybe you
> understand why they did it. But the only plausible
> explanation I will ever acceot for paedophilia is mental
> illness, in which case those responsible need to be either
> treated or serperated from society.

An important distinction: pedophilia (sexual attraction to children) is NOT a crime, just like my desire to kill the sonofab***h who cut me off in traffic is not a crime.  It's when the desire is acted upon that it's a crime.  (Fortunately, the sonofab***h had a roomy trunk in which to hide his body.)

Nathan

[John]

Thanks for the links.