disgusting homeless people in libraries

[Mr. DS]

I'd rather not pick my nose in public.  Too many germs out there that can cause sinuse infections. 

[Jack]

Some times I dwell on stuff so much I find myself going into 'panic attack' mode. My heart races and I get real nervous...like the end of the world is approaching or something. By the time I get out of work,I gotta have a drink to slow me down.

That sounds very similar to what I have, it turned out to be general anxiety disorder.  My doctor put me on this anti-anxiety medication called Lexapro.  Works great, leaves me feeling completely normal except the whole dwelling on things until I'm near panic thing is gone.  Other than the fact that it's rather expensive (about $75 a month) it's great stuff    Takes several weeks for it to build up in your system, so the symptoms go away gradually. 

Don't you just love over-the-internet medical diagnosis from non doctors?    Anyhow, there are a whole pile of diferent medications available, if your doctor puts you on something that's too strong or has side effects, or just doesn't work, don't hesitate to demand something else. 

[AndyC]

Lester does raise a good point. People are reluctant to hold homeless people to basic standards of behaviour.

My wife used to work at a big inner-city church where they ran a shelter program in the winter. Many "clients" would be simply out of control. People would smoke in the lobby, harass people coming into the church, fight with each other, use profanity, break in doors, smear crap on the bathroom walls and leave used needles where the caretaker could find them without necessarily seeing them first. At various times, VCRs, etc. would also just go missing.

The problem there was that the people who were in charge refused to do anything about it. On the surface, it was Christian idealism. Deeper down, it was motivated by guilt and fear. These people wouldn't enforce the rules because they were scared of their own guests, although few would admit it. There was also a very patronizing attitude that reflected a tremendous lack of respect for the homeless. To hold someone to account for his behaviour is to treat him as a human being. To clean up after him and excuse his behaviour is to treat him as an animal.

Yes, many are mentally ill, and many made bad choices. But there are also those who simply believe that the world owes them a living. My wife administered the benevolent fund, and she ran into those people fairly often. And there were teenagers for whom life on the streets was a "lifestyle." There were some kids who were escaping a bad situation at home, but there were others who were only homeless when it suited them. They were playing at it, for some unfathomable reason. They would meet at the shelter and treat it as a slumber party.

Unless someone is seriously ill, I think it is appropriate to require, or at least encourage, some standards of hygeine and behaviour. It might seem heartless, but it really is showing respect. By holding someone to a realistic standard, you are showing a belief that they can meet it. By letting them run wild, you show a belief that they are incapable of living in the civilized world. What hope does that give them?

The biggest problem I had with that shelter program was that it just enabled people, while doing nothing to help them better their situation in the long run. But that is what the people running it wanted. Feed and shelter them, then clean up after them. Like a dog pound.

But I did not dare criticize. This program was a sacred cow of the highest order.

[Zapranoth]

I was waiting for something good to come out of this thread, and there it is.  Karma for Andy.

[trekgeezer]

The one thing I want to know is, what (or who) defines what regular people are?

[lester1/2jr]

GREAT post Andy.

"The problem there was that the people who were in charge refused to do anything about it. "

that's another problem here.  The librarians, like all state employees, don't do their job.  Occasionally I can't take it anymore and I will tell loud people to be quiet please.  the librarians, who the one thing we want from them is to tell loud people to be quiet, are off in another dimension.  they believe theyare part of the literary worldor something.   and of  course,  the regulars resent the kids from the local high school and sit their stone faced when the kids are carousing as kids do.

[ghouck]

like all state employees, don't do their job. 

I have a two-word answer for you on that, care to guess which two words it is? 

[Susan]

bunch of anti-nose pickers!

[Zapranoth]

The actual problem here is that Lester (like all people who are, have been, or will be named Lester) overgeneralizes.  Lesters always do that -- they make sweeping and offensive generalizations.  Maybe without realizing how it comes across; I'm not sure.  I don't talk to Lesters because they're all the same, so I dunno.

The real question is, do Lesters learn from their mistakes?   

[lester1/2jr]

ghouck-  sorry.  I don't doubt there are some intelligent sensible government employees somewhere but not around here.  It's not really their fault, there is no economic incentive for them to do better  and they can't get fired.

at any rate  THESE particular librarians STINK

[ghouck]

Apology accepted Lester, but I do hope you realize you are still generalizing. I have little doubt that your apparent hatred for any and all government has led you to prejudge state workers anyways. I guarantee there are less duds in the state here than there are in the private sector, as I've worked for civillians, for the feds, AND now for the State. As for "can't get fired", that's what people say when they are looking for something to complain about but don't know enough to dig up a legitimate complaint. It's actually harder to keep a State job where I live, and our state guidelines are taken from other states, so it's not some original plan. How many civillian jobs do you get fired for a DWI? Very few, but in my state, any state worker can be fired, and they often are, for any breaking of the law, excluding traffic offenses (DWI is not a traffic offense, it's a criminal offense). I've known people to be fired when DV charges were filed against them. No trial or anything, just fired. The guy got the job back after a few months when the charges were dropped, but that doesn't change the fact that he was out a job that entire time. How many civillian jobs require you to adhere to a code of ethics? Very few, but in the state everyone must follow the code, and that is one of the biggest reasons that people get fired. "No economic incentive for them to do better"? I don'ty know where you live, but if you'retrying to apply that to me like your original blanket statement, you're wrong. You say state workers in your area have "No economic incentive for them to do better". Ok, then some system needs to be put in place to not only punish poor performance, but also to reward positive performance. I do wonder how you would vote if a plan such as that were to be brought up to vote. .

at any rate  THESE particular librarians STINK

Then FFS address that head on, with the people that are concerned. What is it that drives people to complain about something they won't address directly. Those librarians have a boss, and those bosses have bosses and so on. BUT, I seriously doubt the librarians have any pull in terms of stopping some knucklehead from picking his nose. You're probably just going to have to go right to the source on that one, so complaining about the librarians is pointless in that regard.

[lester1/2jr]

No I don't think the librarians should stop someone from picking their nose, but the one thing i personally want them to do, tell other people to shut up,  they refuse to do. 

Ok, then some system needs to be put in place to not only punish poor performance, but also to reward positive performance.

capitalism!

also, bear in mind I live in massachusetts.  our state apparatus would put moscows to shame.  Aren't you in Alaska?  much different culturally, I would guess for the better.

we have a massive zillion dollar budget, none of which is used to do the two things i want them to do:  fix the roads and hire librarians who don't  feel it's beneath them to do traditional librarian shooshing!!



in my state cops make as much as 40 dollars and hour to direct traffic near work sites.    when the work sites hire non cops at a normal rate of pay the police will show up and actually attempt to distract the workers from their jobs and generally agitate in plain site to shake the people down.  you'd be an anarchist too!!

[ghouck]

you'd be an anarchist too!!

No, I'd leave. You point out that I live in Alaska and that you believe it is better there. That's not by random chance. If you don't like where you are, either the state or the library, then move on to one that suits you better. That's the reason that all places are NOT the same; because people desire different things and different surroundings.

capitalism!

Was that a supporting or an opposing outburst?

[BeyondTheGrave]

Living in NYC all my life, one of the things you deal with on a daily basis is the homeless especially if you take the train like me everywhere. They ask for money ,sleep, sometimes smell up the train but who the hell doesn't on the public transportion. I have seen plenty of people do some nasty stuff on the train picking a nose is up there but not the worst and I see alot more regular people do that than homeless.

They were two incidents that I saw involving homeless people that always bother me and one I had to say something.The first one was this guy giving money to a homeless guy and before he gave to him saying "Your not going to spend in on alcohol right?" The homeless guy said no and the guy gave him some change. Now you can't even buy beer with the little change he gave and if you think that don't bother giving the guy anything.

Other time a homeless guy was sleep on the train sprawled across the bench like seat on the train. It was rude and annoying as ever but there was a space for me to sit so I did. I was taking a catnap myself, Sitting down not across seats, when this guy got on the train and started kicking the seat to the this guy up.  Now while homeless guy was wrong for sleeping like that, this guy decides to become even MORE annoying by kicking the damn seat for about a minute or 2 and saying get up,meawhile waking and p**sing ME off. So I told him " You woke me up" that guy looked at me and stopped but by the time homeless man was up.

The dude took the seat and start talking down to the homeless guy! The homeless fellow said "Allright enough" and the guy shut up for the rest of the trip. The kicker and myself got off at the same stop and he smiled at me and I gave him a dirty look.

Moral of the two stories? Douchbags come in all forms homeless or not.

[Psycho Circus]

When you're homeless and you've lost everything you don't give a f***, why should you? Hell, people are losing tons of confidence and self respect after a few weeks out of work with the state the economy is in at the moment. I dug myself out of the hole that homelessness is, but I still do whatever the I feel like. If people are so far away from "normal" society, then why on earth should they conform? It's a sad state of affairs, but then it's an everyday occurrence and it will always be that way for alot of people.