uch, time for me to cause trouble about bad movies

[Evan3]

I have a beef with two movies. I will start with the one which wont get people as upset and that movie is.

Pulp Fiction: I just saw it in my college theatre and it was a piece OF crap. seriously, there was no point. All the characters was bad. None of them had a real change, except for maybe, maybe, Sam. L. Jackson's character. They didnt even have Travolta dance  for too long, and it was the last time he ever danced. I mean seriously what was the point except to have a film with overly gratuitous violence. The only good thing was that Christopher Walken (whos part was stupid) and Steve Buscemi (who was on screen for 30 seconds) happened to be in it.The scene with the raping of Ving Rhames and Bruce Willis was just disgusting. There was no reason in the world to have something so disturbing in this movie. It also gave me unpleasent memories of.......


The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: This movie ranks down as one of the WORST movies I have ever seen. It was sick and sad and violent all at the same time. Look, every now and then, I like violence for no reason, like in video games, or action flics, and even horror flicks and this movie crossed the line. It WAS NOT scary in the least, all of the scares were predictable and Leatherface is FAT. When he did that chase scene with that girl, I thought I was watching a Warner Brothers cartoon, the way he moved the chainsaw in front of the camera. Plus, it was truly disgusting that a family would do this, not scary and it was something the world would have been better without. It doesnt even have a concrete ending, just a stupid ending. The one good thing of this film was the room of bones and the filming, but that was it. If you havent seen this movie, dont, you wont want to waste so much of your life and if you have, I wish I could refund your time.

[AndyC]

I think to really appreciate Texas Chainsaw Massacre, you have to see it in your teens. In high school there were a few of us who thought it was great. I tried to watch it again in my mid-20s and didn't like it very much.

To your list of redeeming qualities, I would add the opening narration by John Larroquette. Didn't recognize the voice the first time I saw it. I don't think I'd really gotten into watching Night Court at that time.

I'm inclined to agree with some of your points on Pulp Fiction, but I enjoyed it overall.

[TC]

My problem with Pulp Fiction is that I think it influenced independent filmakers in the wrong way.   After Pulp Fiction came out, everyone tried to make their own gritty, violent drama/action movies.  

I found Texas Chainsaw Massacre interesting in that it had a main character in a wheelchair.    That always stuck with me for some reason.  And the fact that he didn't get killed until near the end.   I like when a movie is brave enough to take a chance like that and show us a character that we don't normally see.  Other than that, I could take or leave the movie either way.  Doesn't really do much for me, like some people, but I don't hate it either.

[Pete B6K]

Pulp Fiction:

Great, imaginitive, uncliched, original dialogue.  
Deep, layered characters.
A (somewhat) original non-linear structure
Great direction
Great editing
Great soundtrack
Great acting
Interesting plots
Some good humour

It does shock at times, I usually fast forward through the rape scene, I've seen it once, I get the point, don't need to see it again.  But it was a necessary plot point.  Necessary as much as any plot point in a movie is.  You can't suddenly decide that things like that just shouldn't be shown in movies, because every movie has it's own (hopefully) unique plot with various things that other movies won't have.  In the same way (but to a more extreme extent) you could make the same argument against 'Bambi'.  It was the writer's decision to have Bambi's mother being shot, nothing compelled them to put it in there, but thats plot for you.

If the violence in the movie disturbs you that much, don't watch it. But just because you don't want to watch a film, dosen't make it a bad film. For example, I was really impressed with the writing, acting, direction etc of 'Kids', its a very well made film, but I find it too depressing to watch, and probably will never see it again.

And the character's in the film don't need to 'change'.  But as the film goes on, you learn more and more about the characters.  Peeling off the layers and all that jazz.

I'll leave TCM to someone else, cos I've only seen it once and don't remember it that well.

Pete

[Chadzilla]

Evan3 wrote:
>
> I have a beef with two movies. I will start with the one
> which wont get people as upset and that movie is.
>
> Pulp Fiction: I just saw it in my college theatre and it was
> a piece OF crap. seriously, there was no point. All the
> characters was bad. None of them had a real change, except
> for maybe, maybe, Sam. L. Jackson's character. They didnt
> even have Travolta dance  for too long, and it was the last
> time he ever danced. I mean seriously what was the point
> except to have a film with overly gratuitous violence. The
> only good thing was that Christopher Walken (whos part was
> stupid) and Steve Buscemi (who was on screen for 30 seconds)
> happened to be in it.The scene with the raping of Ving Rhames
> and Bruce Willis was just disgusting. There was no reason in
> the world to have something so disturbing in this movie.
>
Well, I liked the movie, but I have not seen it in quite sometime.  I know the jumbling of the stories had something to do with the movie's intended statement on redemption, forgiveness, and what not (and as a meditation on, as bad as it can get, it can get a hell of a lot worse).  As a noir buff I also like how some characters just stay nasty.
>
> The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: This movie ranks down as one of
> the WORST movies I have ever seen. It was sick and sad and
> violent all at the same time. Look, every now and then, I
> like violence for no reason, like in video games, or action
> flics, and even horror flicks and this movie crossed the
> line. It WAS NOT scary in the least, all of the scares were
> predictable and Leatherface is FAT. When he did that chase
> scene with that girl, I thought I was watching a Warner
> Brothers cartoon, the way he moved the chainsaw in front of
> the camera. Plus, it was truly disgusting that a family would
> do this, not scary and it was something the world would have
> been better without. It doesnt even have a concrete ending,
> just a stupid ending. The one good thing of this film was the
> room of bones and the filming, but that was it. If you havent
> seen this movie, dont, you wont want to waste so much of your
> life and if you have, I wish I could refund your time.

Well, don't watch Deliverance or The Last House on the Left, The Hills Have Eyes, or I Spit on Your Grave.  Heck, skip Death Trap as well.  And if you didn't like Pulp Fiction, steer well clear of Chinatown and a few other neo noir thillers from the 70s.  All come from the same 70s era school of nasty and disturbing horror over 'scary' horror.  Leatherface was fat, yeah so what, that's about the only part of criticism I can kick at as weak (you didn't like the movies, fine, what am I going to do, insult for not toeing to the geek line?) - many serial killers are not well known for the muscle man build, most are just flabby weirdos like me.  The chase was interesting, on the commentary track, Gunnar Hansen (who played Leatherface and is now a well respected poet and literary scholar of Herman Melville) talked about how he had to wave the saw around and do some trimming becase Marilyn Burns could not out run him, so he had to slow himself down.  Also his shoes were leather soled and he slipped and fell...with a real chainsaw that was running.  Everybody on the set had a moment of shear terror as that buzzing saw whipped around and fell right....beside him, close call that explains his rather hestiant movements with the saw in a few scenes.

[Creepozoid]

Well I for one think certain slasher franchise starters, especially the original PSYCHO, are way overrated. I also think JAWS is a peice of crap.

[Deej]

 Hell YES! Texas Chainsaw Massacre is, in my opinion, a painfully goofy assed movie. Can't stand it, hate it. I also thought it was dull as hell, and I wanted to personally kill the kid in the wheelchair! I did(gasp)like part 2 though, I mean it was bad, but I like that. And it had a sense of fun about it. Someone made a statement about "toeing the geek line" I think that's a pretty brave statement, and thanks. I also think(again) that Halloween sucks big hairy balls.
 Pulp Fiction, I liked. I saw in the theater when it came out, and didn't know quite what to make of it. But, I think it improves with repeat viewings, and the characters are awesome. The gimp part is pretty off putting, but at least it's brief. And the Chris Walken and Harvey Keitel roles totally ran off with the show.

[BryceDavid]

I love TCM. And it doesn't bother me if someone doesn't like it. I think TCM is a terrifying movie, not necessarily a scary or horrorfying film. Also, remember, TCM basically started the whole slasher genre. The film might seem predictable or boring because EVERY horror film made afterwards copied it, including the concept of the sole survivor being female. You have to put TCM in that context.

Anyway, I think a movie about cannibals is supposed to be "sick and sad and violent." What's the opposite? A happy, cheerful, non-violent cannibal movie? LOL! Seriously, TCM is a groundbreaking horror film. It has a documentary feel to it. And it's also a very dark comedy. If you listen to the commentary on the DVD, everyone has a good laugh at several scenes. But the last scene at the diner table is twisted and insane and it's understandable why some people might not like it. These people are sick. So it's only normal for the film to reflect this.

As for PULP FICTION, I've avoided it and every other Quentin T. movie, so I can't say if it's good.

As for overrated movies, I have to agree about JAWS. When you think about it, how scary can a movie about a killer shark be? Just don't go in the water. End of story. LOL!

[Chadzilla]

BryceDavid wrote:
>  
> As for overrated movies, I have to agree about JAWS. When you
> think about it, how scary can a movie about a killer shark
> be? Just don't go in the water. End of story. LOL!

Well Jaws is my favorite movie of all time, saw it in 75 at the tender age of 8 and nothing has ever surpassed its impact on me.  The logical illogic of your argument defeats me.  People are fairly helpless in the water and a shark is a pretty freaky looking predator, and when you are in the water you are on its turf, not your own.  Stay out of the water, sure.  But what if the town didn't TELL you there was a shark out there?  Which is just what happened in Jaws.  First attack, the sheriff wanted to close the beach, the town didn't.  A shark wasn't a serious threat, it was an isolated incident, the shark was probably gone, yadda-yadda-yadda.  Then comes the second attack.  The sheriff knows this isn't a threat that will go away, but no one wants to listen.  Then comes the third and final attack, after that comes the hunt.  Because this shark isn't going to go away and it is standing in the way of the town making its life blood money, so it has to go.  The part that gives Jaws so much power is the depth of the characterizations of its three leads and how the story uses them in the movie's second half.  Brody has a tremendous level of guilt over the second and third attacks, because he honestly believes he could have stopped them from happening if he had only applied more pressure to both the Mayor and the Amity Town Council.  Quint is driven by his nightmarish war memories to conquer the sea and all in it.  And Hooper, who lives for the thrill of the ride (I think he wants to recreate that traumatic yet fascination inducing thresher shark attack of his youth, something his adventure on the Orca does), almost winds up in the belly of the beast (in fact he would have if it weren't for a costly error in the second unit crew's filming of the cage attack).  The big twist that made Jaws a hit was watching these three men slowly unravel as this shark somehow continually outwits them, which they know is impossible.  It's just a big, dumb fish, but it quickly becomes something more - it becomes a tireless and daunting physical manifestation of their inner most demons/obessions.  I think it is the movie's second half, and mostly Quint, that really made people fall in love with the movie, the first half of it is a rather standard monster movie (if you don't want to get et, just stay out of the...fill in the blank...idiot).

And that is my defensive reading of Jaws, my favorite movie or all time.

[TC]

Was 'Jaw's the movie based on the book or the other way around?  I remember the book being really different from the movie.  Hooper has an affair with Brody's wife and ends up getting eaten at the end.....I think there was other stuff too, but I can't remember since it's been so long.

[Chadzilla]

It was based on Benchley's novel.

[Dr. X, Yyz, Sr.]

Oh yeah? try watching "Attack of the Puppet People" I have no words to describe this flick. Just get it, watch it and scratch your head when "The End" (finally) pops up on your screen.
Hail!!! The Great Bert I. Gordon!!!! For He hath Stundeth me!

[jmc]

I think people get disappointed by TCM because it's not all that gory, but it's one of my favorites too.  I like the sick humor of it more than anything else.  

The story of the making of the film is also interesting--the guy who played Franklin claimed he acted like that off the set during the shooting because he was afraid he would "lose" the character otherwise, because Franklin was so obnoxious and whiny.  He also isolated himself from the other cast members.  

I also like how Gunnar Hansen kept having to find stuff to do in the woods to slow him down because Marilyn Burns was so slow that he kept catching her, so he sawed random branches from trees every so often just to pace himself.

Pulp Fiction was very much a movie of its time--I think it doesn't deserve either the excessive praise or the excessive derision heaped on it at times.  It's just a good movie with a few flaws, but overall I think it was probably one of my favorite films of the 90s.  But I can see how it alienated some people in the audience, especially those who weren't used to non-linear storytelling.

[Funk, E.]

Pulp Fiction was a "good watch." Like it's title. There is nothing truly wonderful about it, but if you just sit and watch it it carries you along pretty effortlessly. You don't have to think to hard. It doesn't bog down and it's not so very fenetic that it overloads the senses. It's just there.

TCM, I've never seen.

Jaws is just Moby Dick with a cookie cutter horror preamble attached to it.

The thing that all three seem to share is good execution. They were all "pulled off" well.

[Ash]

I disagree with you Evan3.

I think that if you took a poll most others would disagree with you too.

These two films (Pulp Fiction & Texas Chainsaw Massacre) are pure genius.

Plain & simple.

I own both of them and am proud to announce so!

You just have to dig a little deeper with these two particular movies than most others to see them for what they truly are.

Masterpieces in almost every possible aspect!

(Maybe someday you will)