@england people

[Skull]

I wonder how  many of the rioters are actually English . . . .

Good point!!!

[Psycho Circus]

I wonder how  many of the rioters are actually English . . . .

Good point!!!

No, that's bollocks. It's not a good point at all. I hate to say this, but some of our North American friends here need their check there facts before you start posting all this political racial bile. Now I don't agree with the constant influx of migrant workers in the country but the fact is nearly all the rioters ARE English. You will find that it is the immigrants that are taking to the streets to protect local communities and the businesses that they have worked hard to build up.

The problem is a social one, that goes back almost 30 years. Ever since Thatcher, then New Labour and all the PC "human rights" bulls**t came in, this country has been going backwards. Cuts to the police force and changes in the education system have helped a yob culture flourish without any discipline and any basic level of morality. Parents these days do not care what their kids get up to, families are lumped together on council estates and have got it into their heads that is desirable to be on benefit. These people think they can get something for nothing and they usually do. These rioters are uneducated and they have no respect for anyone. It was unfortunate that the protest in Tottenham turned violent, but there is no reasoning behind the riots throughout the rest of the country. That is squarely down to greed and lack of values. The kids in Bristol, Manchester, Birmingham etc have nothing better to do with their lives and they think it is "cool" to damage property and to damage lives because they think there is not enough police to deal with them (which there isn't) so this is the best opportunity to commit theft.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I work (for the government) with these kinds of people day in day out and I have to live amongst them. I am disillusioned with society, with the procedures at work that fail and there needs to be big changes because things will only get worse in the future, no matter if clam is restored. It will only be a case of "how long for?"

[Doggett]

I wonder how  many of the rioters are actually English . . . .

Good point!!!

No, that's bollocks. It's not a good point at all. I hate to say this, but some of our North American friends here need their check there facts before you start posting all this political racial bile. Now I don't agree with the constant influx of migrant workers in the country but the fact is nearly all the rioters ARE English. You will find that it is the immigrants that are taking to the streets to protect local communities and the businesses that they have worked hard to build up.

I totaly agree with this totally.
I live in a part of London thats mostly immigrants from the Indian sub continent and other than a very, few, small incidents (which were caused by white people with a English accents) it was quiet here.

The people that immigrate here are the ones that want to invest into the communtiy and put the most into it.
And those that care about their community aren't goint to destroy it.

[zombie no.one]

[indianasmith]

RC  and others - if what I said was out of line, I apologize.  Frankly, Doggett and Circus have much better first hand info than I do, although, to be perfectly honest, I do think that some of Circus' comments back up my contention that socialism has, at the very least, not ameliorated the conditions that led to this lawlessness.

On the immigration issue - please don't misunderstand me.  Immigrants, like many of those from India and the Far East, who want to come to the West IN ORDER TO assimilate and make something of themselves, should always be welcomed with open arms.  They make a country stronger.  But those who come here, especially (and yes, I am riding this hobby horse again) Muslims from the Middle East, who want to set up enclaves of Sharia Law (which is fundamentally opposed to every single freedom Western Civilization cherishes) should be politely told to assimilate or go home.  How many terrorist plots have been hatched in fundamentalists mosques located in Europe and America's greatest cities?  These people have a stated goal of ending our way of life, and their presence should be, at the very least, closely monitored.  They arrested another one outside Fort Hood here in Texas this week - AN AMERICAN SOLDIER radicalized by a jihadist imam - with enough explosives and ammo to kill a couple hundred people.  His avowed goal was to avenge Major Hassan, the Fort Hood sniper from a couple years back.  Radical Islam is the enemy of freedom and the enemy of civilization, and I will not back down from that assertion.  It does not include all Muslims - many of them are peace loving and delightful people.  But there is a dangerous cancer within Islam that threatens, not just decent Muslims, but ALL non-Muslims.  It's time to quit ignoring the threat.

Anyway, sorry if I hijacked the thread.  I'll shut up now.

[zombie no.one]

course you didn't hijack the thread (pun intended? lol)

the main thing about these riots though , is that they're not racially motivated as far as I can tell. they're more anti- police/government than anti- race/religion , although there may well be some of that in the mix too as far as the London riots were concerned...it's hard to say anything for definite imo

[lester1/2jr]

What's the whole point of "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free..." ?

it's an inscription on a statue, written by another government!

We needed immigrants desperately at that time, now we need them perhaps less desperately. I'm not an immigration opponent per say, but mixed with a massive welfare state it can be bad for a country.

If you have a hypothetical country in good shape and you were indiscriminately (wrong word maybe, but you know what I mean)  people in who signed onto welfare, how would that benefit you? You have to preserve yourself first, you can't always be the good guy.


I don't think most immigrants are of this type and I am pretty much a typical open borders type libertarian but I acknowledge it's a complex issue.



I would also sort of agree with Indiana about the nature of the riots as being people who feel entitled being cut off. At the same time, I can sympathize with people who are having austerity forced on them because of bankers. Say you're a poor person who needs a little help from the government now and then or your neighbors do. Now, because Alan Greenspan, Phil Graham, The banks, all these people blew up the housing market, had great celebrations for themselves at the UN and Davos, now that that's over poor people are going to have to endure this austerity.

People are like I didn't invade Afghanistan, I didn't cause the housing crisis, why am I part of  "we" now that it's time to make sacrifises?  I wasn't on the gravy train with these characters. Let AIG and Goldman Sachs and Donald Rumsfed make sacrifises.

[indianasmith]

DCA - I do think you have the right of it there - but that quote:
"We just want to show the rich we can do what we want."
To me, that shrieks of Marxist-fueled class hatred.

I'm depressed about the whole world situation, though.  Western civilization keeps crumbling away, and none of the forces threatening to replace it are worthwhile.

We are heading into a new Dark Age if nothing changes - " - made longer, and perhaps more barbaric, by the lights of perverted science. . ." as Churchill once said.

Lester, you are much less wrong than usual in your response!

[JaseSF]

Rioting solves nothing but just causes chaos and destruction. But organized peaceful protesting can make a real difference especially in mass.

[Allhallowsday]

RC  and others - if what I said was out of line, I apologize.  Frankly, Doggett and Circus have much better first hand info than I do, although, to be perfectly honest, I do think that some of Circus' comments back up my contention that socialism has, at the very least, not ameliorated the conditions that led to this lawlessness.

On the immigration issue - please don't misunderstand me.  Immigrants, like many of those from India and the Far East, who want to come to the West IN ORDER TO assimilate and make something of themselves, should always be welcomed with open arms.  They make a country stronger.  But those who come here, especially (and yes, I am riding this hobby horse again) Muslims from the Middle East, who want to set up enclaves of Sharia Law (which is fundamentally opposed to every single freedom Western Civilization cherishes) should be politely told to assimilate or go home.  How many terrorist plots have been hatched in fundamentalists mosques located in Europe and America's greatest cities?  These people have a stated goal of ending our way of life, and their presence should be, at the very least, closely monitored.  They arrested another one outside Fort Hood here in Texas this week - AN AMERICAN SOLDIER radicalized by a jihadist imam - with enough explosives and ammo to kill a couple hundred people.  His avowed goal was to avenge Major Hassan, the Fort Hood sniper from a couple years back.  Radical Islam is the enemy of freedom and the enemy of civilization, and I will not back down from that assertion.  It does not include all Muslims - many of them are peace loving and delightful people.  But there is a dangerous cancer within Islam that threatens, not just decent Muslims, but ALL non-Muslims.  It's time to quit ignoring the threat.

Anyway, sorry if I hijacked the thread.  I'll shut up now.

But you din't...   We are definitely missing a few emoticons.  

[dean]

http://media.theage.com.au/news/world-news/grieving-birmingham-fathers-moving-call-for-calm-2550929.html

First article, a father's call for all races and religions to come to peace after his son and two others were killed in the riots trying to protect others.


http://www.theage.com.au/world/three-dead-as-rampages-sweep-across-england-20110810-1imt5.html

An article about the same incident. 

http://www.smh.com.au/world/no-illwill-arrest-over-brazen-riot-robbery-20110812-1ipix.html


Finally a pretty sad video about a boy who got bashed in the riots, and while he was sitting on the ground bleeding, a couple of people went up to help him and while helping him they also stole things out of his bag.  Its a pretty shocking video actually, about how brazen it is...


I heard on the news two interesting 'sides' to the story.  The first being the man above who put aside his own grief to call for peace from everyone, and implored people of all religions to band together and try to mend bridges.  The other being a white English lad from the "English Defence League" who spouted the most hateful bile about immigrants I have heard in a while. 

Based on the two reactions, I know which of the two I'd rather stand beside and support.

[Leah]

my take on the looting is that the rioters started it, so that they can get the loot and sell it on eBay or Amazon or etc.... BTW, was this, at first, a verbal throw down?

[lester1/2jr]

http://mises.org/daily/5549/Fiat-Money-and-the-British-Riots


the monetary explanation

so let's examine the real sickness at the heart of British society, which is the constant-inflation policy of the British government.

This always-disguised policy has since 1931 corrupted the money supply at an average rate of approximately 6 percent per annum, to constantly drain the wealth of the nation and to pour this stolen wealth into the corrupt, selfish hands of rotten, short-sighted politicians.

...

I'm making no more predictions (except that I'll start making predictions again next week), but I jokingly predicted a few months ago that the pound would hit £1,000 for an ounce of gold by Christmas 2012, if the usual 6 percent of deliberate annual inflation was kept going.

However, I was 17 months out in that prediction; it hit that measly target in the last couple of weeks. Once it was comfortably over the £1,000 barrier, I suggested it might breach £1,100 by Christmas this year, but once again I was wrong, as it only took a week.

Think about that.

Ten percent of the purchasing power of your entire life's savings, and all of your pensions and all other non-real-goods investments, has been wiped out in one week due to government incompetence in its monopoly control of money, the lifeblood of civilization.

[JaseSF]

Isn't it kind of shameful that in some countries known for their freedoms there's so much unnecessary violence and rioting while in others with many less freedoms peaceful protesters seeking freedom and democracy actually do stay peaceful even in the face of armed retaliation...food for thought there.