OT: Dennis Kucinich

[Brother Ragnarok]

Dennis Kucinich just finished speaking in the on-campus coffee house here at Wartburg.  The dude rocks.  www.kucinich.us.   Go there, read it, be happy.  
A few of his ideas:  Basically telling the UN that Bush was a doorknob and that we're sorry and we want back in the club so we can get our troops out of Iraq and instate international peacekeepers so we don't look like we're trying to rule the world.
Shatter those giant energy monopolies so we can start working on some decent renewable resources and stop destroying the environtment.  Just a few months ago the Republicans passed a bill not only approving and encouraging use of an extremely toxic and highly pollutant new gasoline additive, but making TAXPAYERS PAY FOR CLEANING THE s**t UP WHEN IT RUINS THE WATER, WHICH THEY ALREADY KNOW IT WILL!
That should get the ball rolling.

Brother R

[jmc]

I recently moved to California, so I'm in the same position I was in before, except this time I know the state will go to Bush's opponent no matter what so I feel my vote makes little difference.  It would be interesting to live in a state where it was close so I could feel like my vote meant something, but I never have.  I lived in Oklahoma before and they always go for the Republican...last Democrat who got Oklahoma was LBJ.  

I changed my registration to Democratic, though....I'm interested in the battle for the Democratic nomination and want to play a part in it, though I think the Cal primary is so late that it's usually decided by then.  

I'll probably vote third party in the general election, depending on who gets the Dem nomination.   A couple of them I wouldn't mind voting for.  I voted for Bush in 2000 but don't plan on doing so again.  If I could go back, I'd vote for a third party candidate.   Still couldn't bring myself to vote for Gore.....

[K-Sonic]

Glad to see someone bring his name up.

As far as I'm concerned, Dennis Kucinich is the ONLY Democrat worth voting for in this election.

Spread the word!

[Mr_Vindictive]

Wow, I thought I was the only Democrat on here....considering how Michael Moore has been completely trashed in the past.

I agree 100% with the points that Brother R. brought up in his post.  It is time that we stopped trying to rule the world, and started focusing on ourselves.  All of the money being spent on Iraq could extremely benefit OUR own country.  I also agree that we should not focus so much on big business and more on saving our environment.  

As for voting for a president in the coming year, I think my vote will go to Wesley Clark.  A high ranking officer who is against war?  Sounds better than a spoiled son who has never seen a battlefield and wants America to think he can fly a plane......

[jmc]

I would vote for Clark if he got the nomination.   I think he's one of the few who would win in a lot of the key states.  

I'm afraid they will nominate someone too liberal and it will end up being a Bush landslide.   I know a lot of people think the Democrats shouldn't compromise, but I'm afraid they're going to hand Bush the White House by nominating the wrong person.  They should focus on getting Bush out of there even if it means they have to nominate someone who might share some views with Republicans.  It worked in 1992.        

I consider myself an independent...probably closer to libertarian.  I gave Bush a chance in 2000 but he hasn't done much of what I wanted him to do and has done a whole lot of things I didn't want him to do.

[JohnL]

>It would be interesting to live in a state where it was close so I could feel like my
>vote meant something,

What state would that be? People vote and then the Electoral College elects whoever the hell it wants...

[jmc]

Any of the battleground states where there's a real race in who gets that state's votes--if you live in those it does matter who you vote for.  I've always lived in places that were solidly Republican or Democratic, so my vote for president has never really mattered much.    

To be fair, though, without the Electoral College it would be even worse.  If it went to a popular vote a handful of states would control who got elected, and I think that's unfair, even if it might have changed things in 2000.

[Eirik]

"A high ranking officer who is against war? Sounds better than a spoiled son who has never seen a battlefield and wants America to think he can fly a plane......"

George W. Bush was a fighter pilot and his ANG squadron was part of our air defense network flying security against Cuba.  Maybe he's spoiled, maybe he joined the guard to stay out of Vietnam, maybe he' not a very good president in lots of ways.  But give the guy his due, he can fly a plane and he did so for his country.

And BTW, you don't have to be a Republican to think Michael Moore is an intellectually bankrupt, dishonest, hypocritical polemecist.  (For instance: where was his unconditional opposition to our military taking lives without solid evidence for the cause when Clinton levelled Sudan's only pharmaceutical factory based on nothing?  I must have missed his impassioned speech on that one.)  

I'm voting for Clark in the primaries too.  I'm not in either party, but in Virginia, you don't have to be to vote in the primaries.  It's actually a pretty sweet deal.

[Brother Ragnarok]

Also, Kucinich is an angry dude.  Lots of raised-voiced gesticulating.  Which is good.  I want an angry guy in the Whitehouse.  Angry people actually get s**t done.  They're motivated.  If they weren't motivated, they wouldn't be p**sed off.
And he's far from a super-Democratic wishy-washy wuss.  Someone asked him about Democrats being soft with military action.  His reply was basically "Hell no, we have the right to defend ourselves, and we will to the last man, but our troops are for our protection, not to be used as a world-wide police force."

Brother R

[Ash]

His last name sound like Russian for vagina.

Say this in your best Russian accent...
"OOhhhch ya...Ich hlove to go down ochn some goot kucinich!

(spelling was intentional)

Hehe!



Post Edited (12-08-03 15:54)

[jmc]

I consider Michael Moore to be about the same as Rush Limbaugh, he's just a liberal lying demogogue with sheeplike fans as opposed to a conservative lying demogogue with sheeplike fans.  I know there are tons of people who enjoy Moore without taking him too seriously, I number myself among those people on occasion,  but there are also fans of his out there who are as bad as any dittohead.  I've ran into them at other places on the net.  

I agree with Kucinich on the role of the American military, but I think that attitude will probably not get him elected, sadly.

[Eirik]

"I agree with Kucinich on the role of the American military, but I think that attitude will probably not get him elected, sadly."

Funny thing is that his "we're not the world's police force" line is exactly what Bush was saying 3 years ago.  I hate to say it (because I hate Americans dying at checkpoints as much as anyone), but I think that's one of those foreign policy stances that's alot easier to say than it is to enact.

[ulthar]

jmc wrote:

>  ... Rush Limbaugh,
> ... a conservative lying demogogue with sheeplike fans.


Excuse me, and not to put too fine a point on things, but I consistently listen to Rush and I am NOT a 'sheeplike fan.'  I happen to be a  highly educated scientist who has at various times in my life been a firefighter, law enforcement officer and university professor.  I am now self employed and run my own business, which supported my family while my wife completed medical school.

I can think for myself, and I can debate theory and issues based upon my own ideas, thoughts and (if I might say) my own extensive reading.  

If you wish to have people with opposing viewpoints respect YOUR opinions, then you might want to consider avoiding sweeping, incorrect categorizations about the people to whom you are talking.  Do you even know what the word demagogue (check your spelling, by the way) means?  From Meriam-Webster Online:

"a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power"

You'll garner far more respect and consideration if you try to avoid those 'popular prejudices and false claims' such as calling people who listen to Rush (or Michael Moore) sheep.

Good Day!

[jmc]

I didn't say ALL of Rush's fans were sheep, but that he does have fans that are sheeplike.  Same with Michael Moore.  If you criticize their heroes in any way, they will respond with bleats of "Liberal media" or "Right-wing smear campaign" respectively.    

I enjoy listening to a lot of those radio shows myself.  Nothing wrong with that.   But "prejudices and false claims" have been a part of the radio business since Father Charles Coughlin and are still part of it now.