A message to the grammar Nazi's

[wickednick]

One of the things that bug on this forum me is when people start going nuts because you misspelled something or didn't punctuate correctly.Listen this is not english class and I don't my writing graded.So big deal if I misspelled something, you people can figure it out, big deal if I didn't put two spaces after a period before beginning a new sentance, this is a discussion forum about B movies not a high school english class.Im not writing a poetry or a novel here, just disscusing movies.
Just deal with the fact some of us have no grammarical skills and stop bugging us about it.

[Ash]

Im not dogging you here Nick & I can't recall that I ever have.

Spell how you want to spell & use grammar how you want to, just know that most people will not read posts if they know that there's going to be tons of mispellings & bad grammar.

It's because of this medium that we all use here...text & writing.
Proper spelling, grammar & punctuation are very important when using this medium.
I find it strange that many people can get away with bad spelling & grammar when writing on a board like this or something else and most people don't seem to mind but if it were in person and vocalized incorrectly, it would be unacceptable.
Imagine talking to someone who mispronounced all their words & didn't use proper pausing while speaking to you...running all their sentences together & enunciating all the wrong syllables..
You would be like, "What the hell is wrong with them?"
You would not consider them an effective speaker and probably think they're dumb.

Spelling is very important to me though I usually don't dog someone about it on here like I've seen others do. (I think I have once or twice in the past)

Most importantly, and I know I'm not alone here but when I read something that was written by someone else and I see all kinds of grammar & spelling errors...to me that reflects on their intelligence.  
No I'm not calling anyone stupid...hell an individual could literally be a genius but the use of poor spelling & bad grammar even if the person is smart leads me to think that they're not the brightest person.  That's the impression that I get.
I guess it's just that spelling and grammar always came easy to me and I never understood why most people can't spell for s**t.  
Spelling & grammar to me are the most easy & basic things to grasp and when someone can't even do that...well you see what I'm getting at.

Again, I'm not calling anyone stupid here for bad grammar & mispellings...I'm just telling you how I see it.

It does matter to some people.



Post Edited (12-13-03 02:49)

[Brother Ragnarok]

I don't think anyone's ever lambasted you for your spelling, Nick.  There's a big difference between people typing in a more laid-back fashion because they're just chatting online and those raging morons who show up here every once in a while spouting off their retarded gibberish and insulting people when they themselves could obviously be outwitted by a sandwich.  Those idiots are the ones getting attacked, not the people who are members of this group and are simply laid back or lazy (not an insult, but hey, it happens).  So unless you have a problem with us ripping on people who deserve to be ripped on, don't worry about it.  None of us are after you.  But seriously, a guy corrected my spelling of 'kindergarten' to 'kinderGARDEN', while simultaneously writing a sentence that would send signals to a preschool teacher telling her one of her students was retarded and calling ME a moron.  Makes a strong case for genetic cleansing, let me tell you.

Brother R

[wickednick]

I personnaly don't see the big deal.Its not that hard to fill in the holes in someones punctuation or to figure out what a misspelled word is.I find it more important to get the point of your message across rather than fiddiling over your grammar and spelling, obviously there should be some coherency to what you write, but im specificaly getting at is those who nit-pick over your grammar.
As for Ash's comment about intelligence, I don't think that my gramarical skills play any role in determining how smart I am.The determination of how smart someone is depends on what they say rather than how they say it.Case in point is Stephen Hawkins.You think any one thinks hes dumb because he speaks worse than the computer in Collosus:The Forbin Project? Hell no, dude is smarter than anyone on this forum.
Also I have been blasted many times for poor grammar.Remmeber my "Movies were people miss the point" post, a quarter of it was about my bad spelling and punctuation.
Maybe im just bitter, and probably am, but try and look at what we write rather than how its written.If im acting like the hot headed a***ole that I usually am than judge me for that, but if im actually trying to disscuss something rational, and important, don't miss the meaning of the post just because I didn't use a comma correctly.
Thats what im getting at.Plus im not just refering to my self in this reggard there have been many other who get a lashing about grammar when they are trying to say something important.

[-=NiGHTS=-]

That's just 'Nazis'.  The apostrophe makes it possessive.

Either way, who needs to know the basics of written communication?

Nobody!  Especially in a text-based medium!

[Ash]

Nick, you seemed to have missed my point entirely.
You took my words as an insult when that was never my intention.

You wrote:
"I don't think that my gramarical skills play any role in determining how smart I am.The determination of how smart someone is depends on what they say rather than how they say it."

I disagree up to a point on that one.
What you're saying and how you're saying it are inevitably connected.

Since all of us here cannot see or hear you, the only way we know you is by what you've written and how you wrote it.
Trust me when I say that how you write is a direct reflection of you and if it is poor, that reflects on you also.

Since this medium we're using is writing, it is just the same as if we were speaking to one another face to face only we're writing instead of talking.

My point here that I'm trying to make is that the impression that I and many other people get when we read badly written text is that the person is a little dim even if that person is very bright & intelligent.

It's all about the impression...not if that individual is really dumb or not.
Understand?

Do you see what I'm getting at by stating that "HOW you're saying it" is just as important as "WHAT you're saying?"
This is a fact that they taught us in language & writing classes in grade school Nick.  
You should know that!

You also wrote:
"Maybe im just bitter, and probably am, but try and look at what
we write rather than how its written."

Again, that statement only makes me disagree and serves to reinforce my point.  
How we write is just as important as what is written.

Honestly to me, this sounds like a cry for help.
You mispell words & use bad grammar and are angry when people check you on it.
You stated so yourself.
Maybe you are angry at yourself for not being too good at it in the first place and wish you could be better at it.  
But who knows...I'm no psychologist and I can't answer that for you.  
Only you can.

Look man, I'm only trying to help you.
Good spelling, grammar & punctuation are essential life skills that should be honed to a razor sharp edge in my opinion.
Especially when it comes to the workplace.  
Potential employers DO look at these things and they DO judge you on them.
They ARE important!

You have to agree with me that it is in your best interests to develop them further and what is wrong with that?
Nothing at all my friend!

I do not want this to turn into an argument or flame war.
You will probably become angry upon reading this & I don't blame you.  
Nobody likes to have their shortcomings pointed out to them.  
My request to you is to not get angry.
Read what I have written to you as free and good advice and take it in stride.
Take it as a learning experience.

Remember, you brought this up and I'm trying to help you by telling you the truth.
And what I've written here is the truth.



Post Edited (12-13-03 06:56)

[Evil Matt]

1)  "Kindergarten" is correct.  As far as I know, it's a German word, and if people are in fact using "kindergarden", it's a bastardization of the actual word and widely accepted because it's one of those things society accepts incorrectly because people are dumb.

2)  While no one should go out of their way to lambast anyone else for their spelling or grammar, one shouldn't make the case that their spelling/grammar is awful because they don't care.  That's just goddamned lazy.  Seriously, it's not like ANYONE'S post about "Plan 9 From Outer Space" is so important that they don't have time to run it through spellcheck or at least read it over prior to posting.  If you have something to say, you owe it to yourself and the people reading it to say it well.  Have some pride in your work.

3)  Note to (what seems like) EVERYONE:  "Your" is NOT an abbreviated form of the phrase "You are".  That would be "You're".  Please take time from your busy lives to throw in that apostrophe and the letter "e".  We'll all live better lives for it, I swear.

I'll step off my soapbox now.

[Ash]

Spellchecker?

What's a spellchecker?

Hehe!  Just kidding.

I've always been a master speller since I was young.

I can't recall ever using a spellchecker in my life.

EVER...

[Eirik]

As far as I can see from the last two weeks, I'm the guilty one here.  I corrected wykednick's use of "A-R-E" when he meant "O-U-R".  It occurred several times in one e-mail, so it was clearly a misconception on spelling and not a typo.  My assumption was that wykednick maybe wasn't a native English speaker and I was only trying to be helpful.  The response I got was a shorter, more rude version of his post here - my response has been to do as wykednick asks and accept his spelling as is.

Just another observation - wykednick wants us to "just deal with" the fact that he cannot (or is not willing to) write properly.  I haven't got a problem with that at all.  Unfortunately, teachers and employers won't be as understanding.  One should make an attempt to differentiate between "Nazis" and people trying to help with something that can be fairly important to the course of one's life.

I've said my piece, I'll take off the jack boots and arm band now.
:)

[Evil Matt]

So if I'm trying to create a master race made only of good spellers, which one am I?

[Flangepart]

Or me?
I'm always aware of my miss spellings. The faster i type, the more i bungle the process. In that case, speed kills the communication process.
I try....i try....
Too many flubs do hurt the idea. I've been corrected before. Sometimes harshly. (Remember Squishy, anyone?) But, i keep at it.
This board is fun. The gang is clever, and i gotta say, while i've never been outwitted by a sandwich, i've been put in my place by a realy nasty bowl of soup!
Beef and Chedder,actualy....
Anyhoo, calm out, and relax. Correct what you can, and the problims will go away. And remember, its what you say that counts....the method matters, as in regards letting us know what that what is.

[Susan]

i shore did glad i did done go to skool

[wickednick]

No don't worry Ash I didn't take what you said to be offensive.I understood what you were getting at, but it bugs me when someone responds to a post by correcting a grammarical error rather than writing about the topic its self.I understand that this is a text based medium and it is important to have a coherent message, but to pick apart little grammarical errors I find to be rather anal.
I think a rather a large portion of this problem perhaps stems from age and education.From what I have read of your posts I get the impression that many of you are married and have children, which would make you around 30 to 40 years old.Im 22 and I have found that my past english teachers were rather lacking on teaching ability.It seems that they would rather talk about if Paul Mc'cartney really died in some accident,or watch a movie about a book we just read rather than have us write about it.
Also this is not some kind of a cry for help, I'm just a hot head, and like to b***h about things.Im not trying to be some overly comformist fascist, telling every one this is how they have to be, im sure some of you will dissagree about that, but all Im trying to say is chill out on correcting every little mistake.



Post Edited (12-13-03 15:04)

[Cullen]

Now, now.  We prefer to be called the "Grammatically Correct."  A "Grammar Nazi" would have you hauled out into the street and shot over a typo.

Seriously, while I am probably the last one to talk about spelling and grammar, I think that a good grasp of both is important, not matter what the forum.   A good grasp of both a) makes what you're saying clearer to the reader, b) keeps you from looking ignorant when you are not, and c) I have no idea.  Really.  Drawing a blank.  I was having a It Came from Beneath the Sea moment and went a letter too far.  Please disregard.

Do the best you can when you can, don't let the nastier of the "Grammatically Correct", and remember the words of Mark Twain.  For I sure as hell can't.

Peace and good will to all, and to all a good night.
For the curious:  I mispelled "Grammar" and "Grammatically" the first time through.  Thank God for Spellcheck - now none of yew will no how dum I realy am.

[Conrad]

Hey, nick of the wycked-type dude, you mean ME, don't you?

Actually, I am a spelling-fascist rather than a grammar-Nazi.  I can't ever remember being taught the rules of grammar, I just sort of absorbed them through the 1000's of books I've read.  The spelling thing, well, I apologise in advance for that; my anal-retentice gene is dominant, you see -

If you get your point across, then that's what matters.  People who judge your IQ on the basis of hastily-typed messages on a bulletin-board, deserve to - to - to swallow a triple barb fish-hook embedded in an ice-cube.