Who should be the next president?

[RCMerchant]

Yeah-I do mean. I aint never been "married" by law my whole life.

[indianasmith]

Skull, you are really setting up one straw man argument after another.

First of all, I never said or implied that ALL Americans born before 1950 were card carrying Klansmen or Jim Crow segregationists.  What I said - and I thought I was clear - was that, by the hypersensitive standards of today, virtually every white man who lived before 1950 would be considered a racist.

That being said, racism was alive and well in North and South and was far more pervasive than you seem to realize.
In the South, it was out front, obvious, and lethal.  In my Dad's home town, in 1926, a black boy shot the white teen who had raped his 12 year old sister.  In retaliation, the town's whites didn't just lynch the young black man - they lynched his brother and three of their friends.  Not one person was ever punished for that atrocity, or for most lynchings in the South at that time - but here's the SICK part - they made postcards of those 5 boys, all hanging from one massive oak tree, and you could buy those cards at the local drug store all the way up until the early 1960's!  Yes, the South was ROTTEN with racism in the first half of the 20th century.  Black World War 2 veterans were lynched - some of them still in uniform - when they returned from the battlefield and tried to register to vote!

In the North, racism was present, even prevalent, but more subtle and less violent.  Yes, some Republican congressmen in the North did put forward anti-lynching bills - but I wonder how many of those selfsame lawmakers would have wanted a black family to move in next door?  or would allow their daughter to date  a black man?  Maybe a few, maybe not!

The long and short of this is:  We have come a LONG way in America on the issue of race.  Many of those who gripe the most loudly about how racist our country is have never experienced REAL racism in their entire lives.  But at the same time, it's still here, and it's still real. And it's not just whites against blacks.  Believe me, there are many blacks alive today who hate whites with the same intensity that their ancestors were hated by Klansmen.  It's all ugly, and it's all bad.  I'm tired of the polarization, and Trump's rhetoric, although it very carefully avoids overtly racist words and phrases, is still very much fostering an "us vs. them" mentality that will do very little to advance our country.

That's it, I'm done, parse that any way you want!

And . . . . one more thing:


#smith2016

[Skull]

Skull, you are really setting up one straw man argument after another.

First of all, I never said or implied that ALL Americans born before 1950 were card carrying Klansmen or Jim Crow segregationists.  What I said - and I thought I was clear - was that, by the hypersensitive standards of today, virtually every white man who lived before 1950 would be considered a racist.

Maybe I'm wording it wrong... I'm saying the hypersensitive standards is the new segregation.

In the North, racism was present, even prevalent, but more subtle and less violent.  Yes, some Republican congressmen in the North did put forward anti-lynching bills - but I wonder how many of those selfsame lawmakers would have wanted a black family to move in next door?  or would allow their daughter to date  a black man?  Maybe a few, maybe not!

And I'm the one making strawmen... Sorry but you just contradicted yourself by 'implying that all Americans are racist'. Maybe it's because your from Texas. I'm from Chicago I see mix couples all the time.

I'm tired of the polarization, and Trump's rhetoric, although it very carefully avoids overtly racist words and phrases, is still very much fostering an "us vs. them" mentality that will do very little to advance our country.

It is us vs them - but - the THEM is those in power. The TEA Party told the Republicans they are voting them in office to end Obama Care and to stop the Illegal Aliens. The Republicans didn't do a damn thing and now we are looking at TRUMP.

[indianasmith]

To say that the GOP Congress did nothing - that's an inaccurate assessment.  It's very hard to overturn policies of a sitting President when you do not have 60 votes in the Senate, unless you are prepared to shut the government down once a month!  They did what they realistically could, and achieved some noted successes despite a complete lack of cooperation from the White House.

[Skull]

To say that the GOP Congress did nothing - that's an inaccurate assessment.  It's very hard to overturn policies of a sitting President when you do not have 60 votes in the Senate, unless you are prepared to shut the government down once a month!  They did what they realistically could, and achieved some noted successes despite a complete lack of cooperation from the White House.

Boy you don't get it...

The object was to make the president veto and have him explain why.


Why do you think Ted Cruz had a fighting chance against Trump - Because he did shut the government down. If Ted Cruz was smart and stole Trump's thunder early in the race we'll be looking at Ted Cruz as the nominee. But because Ted Cruz focused his voice to the 6 million voters that didn't showed up for Romney - he lost.

[Allhallowsday]

 

[Skull]

I should be talking about England leaving the EU... 

[Allhallowsday]

 

[Rev. Powell]

Yeah-I do mean. I aint never been "married" by law my whole life.

I am glad I didn't miss your ceremony, I would travel far to attend your bachelor party. 

[ulthar]

They did what they realistically could,

Bullsqueeze.  All the R's do is capitulate, and people across the country...folks that have been a silenced majority for a LONG time...are sick of it.  They want representative leadership with the gonads to fight back against cancerous ideals in our government.

The R's have controlled the House for years and thus control every single dime spent by the Federal Government.  They could GUT the entire bureaucracy if they wanted to and had the intestinal fortitude to do it...including Obamacare.

Getting rid of Obamacare was what the current wave of "conservative majority" legislators were elected to accomplish, and they have done jack squat on that or any other issue.

So, a good number of people are holding their ("Conservatives") feet to the fire rather than making weak Washingtonian-esque excuses for them.

You dislike Trump's rise to power / popularity?  Look no farther than the failure of the Republican Party to act like something different than the Democrat Party for the last 30 years.  The Tea Part and Trump Train have not risen from the ashes because people were happy with their representation in government.

I can say that as a voter that voted for Lindsey Graham when he first ran for the Senate.  I see my mistake now, and REGRET that vote (though at the time the alternative was at least as bad or far worse). I'll use him as a Good Example(tm) to show the total failure of the R's in both houses to live up to the "conservative promise" they ran, and got elected on.  Graham is an abomination and should just change his party affiliation to "sell out."

And, he ain't the only one.

Whatever one thinks of Trump's rhetoric or policy goals, he's running on a platform based on "Change."  Obama did this in 2008 and everyone thought it was awesome.  Trump does it implicitly and everyone thinks he's the Devil Incarnate.

I find that dichotomy very interesting.

[Allhallowsday]

 

...
Whatever one thinks of Trump's rhetoric or policy goals, he's running on a platform based on "Change."  Obama did this in 2008 and everyone thought it was awesome.  Trump does it implicitly and everyone thinks he's the Devil Incarnate.

I find that dichotomy very interesting.

The two men are not comparable.  Trump isn't liked by many because his remarks can be interpreted as racist, sexist, self-absorbed, or paranoid.   OBAMA may be a huge disappointment, but, he has uttered nothing I've heard that could be described by any of those terms. 

[Leah]

[Allhallowsday]

[indianasmith]

Ulthar, Skull, with all due respect - if the GOP in Congress did what you suggest it should have done, it would play out like this:

The House shuts down the government demanding X (the repeal of Obamacare, an end to illegal immigration, repeal of gun restrictions, a Federal ban on deficit spending, for the President to admit that he is secretly a gay Muslim communist jihadist, whatever else their little tea party hearts desire).  And then -

The President blames the Republicans for shutting down the government.
The Democratic legislators blame the Republicans for shutting down the government.
The media blames Republicans for shutting down the government.
Hollywood blames the Republicans for shutting down the government.

Then, after a week or so, the typical American voter turns from reality TV to the news and hears about a government shut down.  He says: "What, Yellowstone is closed?  I can't take my kids to the Smithsonian?  Stupid Republican bastards!"

And the GOP gets swept out of office, Democrats reclaim both houses, and the march of socialism goes on.

What you and Skull and so many arch-conservatives want is for the GOP to adopt a policy of ultimate political suicide that will push the leftist agenda even faster than it is currently moving.  That's why so many candidates, after promising to kill Obamacare, amnesty, etc. etc. etc., and REALLY meaning it when they say it, get to Washington and learn how the real world works, and SHIFT POLICY, winning small victories when they can get them and trying to back candidates who have a realistic chance of winning, until  such a time as we can get a Republican President and Congress back in office and effect some real change.

That's how we got the deficit reduced by half a trillion dollars in the last six years, and it's how we got the 40 year ban on U.S. oil exports lifted, and a dozen other small, incremental victories that were ignored by angry conservative masses because OBAMA'S STILL PRESIDENT! OBAMACARE IS STILL LEGAL!  THERE IS STILL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!

Politics, in the end, is the art of the POSSIBLE.  Not the realm of make-believe.  This country is never going to return to a pre-1930's, unregulated, laissez-faire capitalist system, and we're never going to go back to the day when the government didn't have some form of social welfare.  So people need to quit with the pipe dreams and focus on realistic, obtainable goals.

Or witness the final death of American conservatism, at the hands of its most diehard proponents.

[Trevor]

Yeah-I do mean. I aint never been "married" by law my whole life.

I am glad I didn't miss your ceremony, I would travel far to attend your bachelor party. 

Same here: that would have been one heck of a party.