If Global Warming Is Real....

[RCMerchant]

The thread is titled "If Global Warming Is Real..."

Do you think it is?

[Allhallowsday]

It's not "global warming" anymore.  It's global climate change.  And yes.  It's happening and our greenhouse gasses are causing it. 

[LilCerberus]

Y'know, I understand AlGore did the same thing...
After saying it wouldn't be there in ten years, he built a place in Montecito, where a lot of other left wing alarmist parrots live...

I dunno, maybe they've all got some kooky notion that the frequent mudslides will eventually compensate for the rising sea levels & beach erosion...

[Allhallowsday]

Because sea levels are only projected to rise three-quarters of an inch per year, meaning they would take almost 50 years to advance one yard.

Beachfront properties aren't likely to become flooded within our lifetimes. That doesn't imply climate change won't have serious long term ecological and economic consequences 100 years from now. I agree with the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change, and yet I'd happily buy a house on the beach if I had the disposable income. I don't see even the slightest hint of hypocrisy there.

Thanks!  Somebody needed to say that.

[RCMerchant]

Why is it left and right on this?
It's been happening at a slow rate since the industrial revolution. The ozone has been depleting for a looong time. We just have the scientific knowledge to figure this s**t out recently.
As far as Al Gore-I never seen his movie.I reckon he was trying to scare people into thinking it was gonna happen tommorow if they didn't elect him. Politics bulls**t.
I ain't for the left or right.

[Allhallowsday]

Why is it left and right on this?
It's been happening at a slow rate since the industrial revolution. The ozone has been depleting for a looong time. We just have the scientific knowledge to figure this s**t out recently.
As far as Al Gore-I never seen his movie.

Well said. 
As for AL GORE's movie... I've owned it many years... still sealed in the shrinkwrap!   

[Rev. Powell]

Why is it left and right on this?
It's been happening at a slow rate since the industrial revolution. The ozone has been depleting for a looong time. We just have the scientific knowledge to figure this s**t out recently.
As far as Al Gore-I never seen his movie.I reckon he was trying to scare people into thinking it was gonna happen tommorow if they didn't elect him. Politics bulls**t.
I ain't for the left or right.

As near as I can tell it goes back to the Kyoto protocol in 1992. It was a flawed deal Bill Clinton favored to try to curb greenhouse gasses, one that would have hurt American energy companies while letting China off the hook. At the time, the science was less settled than it is now. So to oppose it, Republicans took the strategy that the science was inconclusive and it would be unwise to take radical action. As more evidence came in and even most conservatives were forced to accept the reality of climate change, some hardliners continued to double down on denialism, or just move the goalposts (sure, it's happening, but it's just a natural cycle, not something we're activey contributing to).

To be fair, liberal conservationists are often alarmists, which made it credible to think they'd be exaggerating (the boy who cried wolf syndrome).

In the end, the only ones who actually benefit from climate change denialism are energy companies that depend on fossil fuels for short term profits. Even they realize that they have to move to better solutions to remain viable in the long term, which is why we have hybrid cars and electric cars on the horizon.

[Svengoolie 3]

Why is it left and right on this?
It's been happening at a slow rate since the industrial revolution. The ozone has been depleting for a looong time. We just have the scientific knowledge to figure this s**t out recently.
As far as Al Gore-I never seen his movie.I reckon he was trying to scare people into thinking it was gonna happen tommorow if they didn't elect him. Politics bulls**t.
I ain't for the left or right.

As near as I can tell it goes back to the Kyoto protocol in 1992. It was a flawed deal Bill Clinton favored to try to curb greenhouse gasses, one that would have hurt American energy companies while letting China off the hook. At the time, the science was less settled than it is now. So to oppose it, Republicans took the strategy that the science was inconclusive and it would be unwise to take radical action. As more evidence came in and even most conservatives were forced to accept the reality of climate change, some hardliners continued to double down on denialism, or just move the goalposts (sure, it's happening, but it's just a natural cycle, not something we're activey contributing to).

To be fair, liberal conservationists are often alarmists, which made it credible to think they'd be exaggerating (the boy who cried wolf syndrome).

In the end, the only ones who actually benefit from climate change denialism are energy companies that depend on fossil fuels for short term profits. Even they realize that they have to move to better solutions to remain viable in the long term, which is why we have hybrid cars and electric cars on the horizon.

You kind of put your finger on a big problem, rev. Kyoto was a "flawed deal" but it was still better than no deal at all. I think americans have reached a point where if something isn't perfect, absolute 100 percent to our liking, as a nation and as individuals, we say "NU-UH! Want Better! Not gonna take it!"

honestly a lot of americans seem to be this way now. I mean, look at 2016. Hillary wasn't perfect, a lotta people wanted bernie or bust. So them stamped their feet, shook their fists and screamed "NOT GONNA VOTE HILLARY! NOT GONNA! NOT GONNA! NOT GONNA!"

Half a loaf wasn't good enough, so we all got a whole loaf of toxic waste, radioactive sludge and ground glass.

Americans are suffering from the "Nirvana fallacy", a logical fallacy that basically says if a solution isn't perfect it's no good at all.

And it's hurting us terribly. Americans have gotten so used to being catered to by businesses that promise perfect this and perfect that they don;t know how to settle for good enough anymore.

[Svengoolie 3]

Y'know, I understand AlGore did the same thing...
After saying it wouldn't be there in ten years, he built a place in Montecito, where a lot of other left wing alarmist parrots live...

I dunno, maybe they've all got some kooky notion that the frequent mudslides will eventually compensate for the rising sea levels & beach erosion...

Or maybe he wanted to document the rise of sear levels from a piece of land on the front lines.

[Svengoolie 3]

One reason I'm a left leaning progressive is that the right is utterly owned by Big Business and utterly incapable of taking a stand that isn't in the interests of big business on every single issue.

No matter what an issue is, no matter what the subject, if BigBiz profits are affected by it conservatives will instantly, automatically, robotically come down on the side of corporate profits regardless of any and all other factors.

Also as soon as an issue that involves bigbiz comes up each and every conservative in sight will instantly declare himself an expert on the matter no matter what the subject is. Conservatives who wouldn't know dioxin from silly putty instantly become experts on chemistry and human biology when bigbiz wants to dump toxic waste in water, and they just know the levels bigbiz wants to dump are safe for humans no matter what they are.

it was 100% certain that on climate change the consies would come down on bigbiz profit's side. Even if the future of humanity was at stake.

I don't even bother listening to conservatives on issues anymore, their opinions are as predictable as a loaded dice.

[LilCerberus]

One reason I'm a left leaning progressive is that the right is utterly owned by Big Business and utterly incapable of taking a stand that isn't in the interests of big business on every single issue.

No matter what an issue is, no matter what the subject, if BigBiz profits are affected by it conservatives will instantly, automatically, robotically come down on the side of corporate profits regardless of any and all other factors.

Also as soon as an issue that involves bigbiz comes up each and every conservative in sight will instantly declare himself an expert on the matter no matter what the subject is. Conservatives who wouldn't know dioxin from silly putty instantly become experts on chemistry and human biology when bigbiz wants to dump toxic waste in water, and they just know the levels bigbiz wants to dump are safe for humans no matter what they are.

it was 100% certain that on climate change the consies would come down on bigbiz profit's side. Even if the future of humanity was at stake.

I don't even bother listening to conservatives on issues anymore, their opinions are as predictable as a loaded dice.

"How absurd," said the gnat to the gnu,
"To spell your queer name as you do!"
"For the matter of that,"
Said the gnu to the gnat,
"That's just as I feel about you." - Oliver Herford

[bob]

[ER]

The thread is titled "If Global Warming Is Real..."

Do you think it is?

I don't know, RC, it may be.

Back around early 2008 I saw An Inconvenient Truth at an art theater and it seemed conclusive, case made, the planet was warming and we were behind it, but then I heard rebuttals that also seemed intelligent and nearly as conclusive. In the '00s a former poster here who had multiple Ph.Ds used to make an eloquent case against climate change, as some of the vets might remember, and his posts are likely still on this site to be read if anyone wants to dig them up.

For a moment I had an interest in the issue until around the time of the Presidential election in '08 when it became so viciously politicized I turned my back on it since it somehow became an issue that a lot of people didn't seem able to discuss without arguing. I was also bothered by some people's almost religious faith in science to the point of all dissent from their dogma being treated like heresy. Science is not supposed to be about blind faith or inquisitions. The fact it is presented that way in the 21st century is one reason I did not go on and get my doctorate in biology. Science departments are closed-minded places, believe me.

I do think there is a lot of hyperbole on both sides (all sides) of the issue, and no one does his case a favor by becoming an alarmist.

When I was in middle school we went to a presentation that showed London and New York underwater and we were told that by the time our children were in middle school we'd have Spanish moss on our trees here and our weather would be like what New Orleans' was then. Well my oldest daughter will be middle school-age next year and we don't have Spanish moss and we had two of the coldest winters on record recently, which doesn't argue for the credibility of people from Ohio State who came to school that long ago day and got a lot of kids upset.

As for cities being underwater, the opposite is happening and there is widespread reclamation from the oceans now in the Netherlands, Monaco, Nigeria and even India, recapturing land from the seas. New Orleans is under sea level and when the occasional one-eyed witch doesn't roll over the region, it's still dry. Havana has expanded its waterfront. Lowered (not raised) sea levels in South America recently resulted in a discovery of a campsite so early in the timeline that the story of human migration into the hemisphere may have to be re-written.

Mars is also getting warmer, did you know that? And Mars hasn't had a person living there since the US Civil War. (Come on, easy reference....)

Whatever the truth of this, it's a shame people are willing to exploit hysteria pro and con for their own ends. Ultimately time will make the case.

I appreciate the opinions here, and I'm glad this didn't degenerate into a flame war. Maybe I could have introduced the topic with more tact, it's true, but somehow hearing about that beach side house from a man who made his bones scaring audiences about the state of crisis we're supposedly living in honestly bothered me, and wasn't political.




PS: Rev, your "bad investment" quip cracked me up. As usual the wittiest statement belonged to you.

Everyone take care.

[Svengoolie 3]

Well OK I'm  going to make my case for man aggravated climate change like this, in what I hope in a non flame fashion.

There are toxins so deadly to humans an amount of them barely visible to the human eye can kill an adult. Thatcs a fact. I have heard high grade,  military sarin can be lethal in almost microscopic amounts.

Now if a tiny droplet of sarin can kill an adult human, look at the countless millions of  tons of gasses humans have bumped in tom the earth's atmosphere since the industrial regulation.  

Look at the forests we've replaced  with cities.

Look at the damage we've done to the oceans with massive pollution.

If a barely visible speck of sarin or ricing can kill an adult man can yoiu honestly say that the megatons of pollution we've out in the air and water and land can't have an adverse effect on even something as big as earth?

I think that's   a pretty damn dubious stance to take.

Another reason I choose to take climate change seriously is I have never heard a truly stupid argument for climate change.  Most arguments I hear for it are sound,  well reasoned,  researched and presented with supporting data.


Most arguments I hear against climate change are generally along the lines of "LIBTARDS IZ TEH STOOPID COMMEEZ! " laden with snark,  abuse,  insults and a notable lack of cited facts.

There is a truly stupid argument I have heard repeatedly against climate chanfe I won't repeat here as it would be mistaken as abuse towards some people.

So when I see valid reasoned arguments citing prove able facts and data on one side and the other side has  snark, insults,  conspiracy  theories,  name calling, etc as responses I tend to go with the former.

[LilCerberus]

It occurs to me, that maybe the bamster & AlGore did it for the National Flood Insurance Program....
Pretty big deal in the Outer Banks of North Carolina because it's good for tourism...