The Unsaid Context of the Ukraine Conflict

[ER]

...The reason why it's "long-winded" is because the issue is complex.

No, it's you.  

Try "No, you..."

No,  it is you.  Don't.  Do not.  

Careful, he's from New Jersey, ralfy, so you better not. It's not all salt water taffy and gambling holidays there, they also have a devil living in their pine barrens. Very scary. Don't wanna get a guy from Jersey on your bad side.

Some of the state's hazards:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Devil

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCavalcante_crime_family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Broadcast_(film)

And perhaps most terrifying of all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Plaza_Hotel_and_Casino

[ER]

And, ralfy, if no link I posted before will dissuade you from replying with: "Oh, yes I do!" prepare to tremble before the dark might that is New Jersey at its most horrific! Save yourself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qs3OKyYkmQ

[Alex]

Yes gosh darn it you are just too smart for all of us and it has nothing to do with you just making up stuff that hasn't been said at all.   If you want people to address your points and stick to the topic, maybe you should have tried responding to what was really said rather than making stuff up. You had no problem wandering off-topic when it suited you on the parent thread. Why should you now be treated any differently in return?

The problem isn't that I'm too smart for you. It's that you lack basic knowledge concerning this issue. That's why you're beating around the bush.

Yes, totally that. Nothing to do with your inability to respond to what is actually written when I did try to discuss things and just making up stuff instead at all.

[Alex]

Here is a whole bunch of Ukrainian businesses that can be supported online and help them through tough times.

https://empoweredbyshopify.com/ukrainian-owned/

[ralfy]

No,  it is you.  Don't.  Do not. 

"No, you..." is how 4chaners would say it, which basically expresses your knowledge of this issue.

[ralfy]

And, ralfy, if no link I posted before will dissuade you from replying with: "Oh, yes I do!" prepare to tremble before the dark might that is New Jersey at its most horrific! Save yourself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qs3OKyYkmQ

It looks like you've exceeded All in terms of being a buffoon.

[ralfy]

Yes, totally that. Nothing to do with your inability to respond to what is actually written when I did try to discuss things and just making up stuff instead at all.

No, you did not try to discuss things. You can't even do it now.

[ralfy]

"How Western elites exploit Ukraine"

https://unherd.com/2022/03/how-western-elites-exploit-ukraine/

Not only has the Ukraine coverage been highly charged, morally self-righteous, and plainly political, it actively demands a collective suspension of disbelief as it cultivates and redirects a natural reaction of sympathy felt by all into a moral outrage that insists on certain retaliation. Some, such as the former US ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul, have irresponsibly vilified the entire Russian population. Others, such as The Atlantic's Anne Applebaum, have begun to senselessly demonise prescient realist American academics for daring to shed light on Russia's basic national security interests and the possibility of a confrontation if they go unrecognised.

So far as the Western legacy media is concerned, we really do live in the post-historical age Francis Fukuyama triumphantly proclaimed in 1989, with liberal internationalism the only acceptable paradigm through which to understand the world. Alternative views are now tantamount to championing tyranny. In each instance, the dictator comes to personify internationally Hegel's thymotic, if savage, primitive man — the inhumane antithesis of the "last man" —  fighting maniacally against liberal democracy, the march of modernity, and progress itself. Assad, Ghaddafi, the Taliban, and Vladimir Putin all fit this archetype as reactionary actors par excellence necessitating a holy alliance to confront and civilise.

[ralfy]

A very remarkable article, and from a neocon site, too!

"The Ukraine War Shows How the Nature of Power Is Changing"

https://carnegieendowment.org/2022/06/16/ukraine-war-shows-how-nature-of-power-is-changing-pub-87339

One example is the role of multinational corporations, whose influence on the Western response to Russia's invasion is unprecedented in scope—in part thanks to their growth in size, wealth, and reach, as well as their evolving legal status. Historically, corporate activity in conflict has been mostly motivated by profit, with companies either seeking increased sales directly—such as in Iraq in 2003 or during the world wars—or supporting peace to advance business prospects, as in Northern Ireland. But in the Russia-Ukraine war, most multinational corporations have acted primarily on political motives, often at significant cost to their bottom lines. The decisions of almost 1,000 companies to pull out of Russia have reinforced the West's use of economic power but complicated its political leverage, by making it harder to use sanctions relief as a diplomatic tool.

It mentions later on that many countries are going against the sanctions, and for economic reasons. In relation to that, there's even related news about similar and China. For example,

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-22/dutch-resist-us-call-to-ban-more-chip-equipment-sales-to-china

then several days later

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-07/us-led-curbs-on-china-tech-to-tighten-as-dutch-plan-new-controls

Keep in mind that the same entities pushing for restrictions are the same ones pushing for free markets. Go figure.

[ralfy]

Related to the context given coverage of wars in the Middle East as analyzed by Edward Said and others:

"'Double standards': Western coverage of Ukraine war criticised"

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/27/western-media-coverage-ukraine-russia-invasion-criticism

That is, this is different from U.S. invasions of Middle Eastern countries because those were barbaric whereas Ukraine is civilized.

They forgot to mention that Ukraine is a co-founder of the Soviet Union and has played both sides multiple times, e.g., siding with the Nazis and then doing the opposite when the war was turning against them. I don't blame them given the fact that their region is in the crossroads of conflicting military powers.

Finally, double standards should't be surprising. It's like the idea of saving a village by bombing it.

[ralfy]

A piece from last August from WaPo which I'm told is now falling apart. It's a neocon shill piece but even that can contain nuggets of reality:

"Road to war: U.S. struggled to convince allies, and Zelensky, of risk of invasion"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/interactive/2022/ukraine-road-to-war/

As Milley laid out the array of forces on that October morning, he and the others summed up Putin's intentions. "We assess that they plan to conduct a significant strategic attack on Ukraine from multiple directions simultaneously," Milley told the president. "Their version of 'shock and awe.' "

I wonder if they realized the irony of their statement. (For those who still don't get it, check the last sentence.)

[ralfy]

Interesting shill piece from Time:

"What the West Will Never Understand About Putin's Ukraine Obsession"

https://time.com/6140996/putin-ukraine-threats/

It's like some form of projection: since we're empire-greedy scumbags, we'll have to assume that they are, too.

Actually, there's truth in that following the notion of realpolitik. The problem is that only one side insists it isn't.

On the most basic level what is lacking in the current crisis is any attempt by Western and American leaders to talk to the Russian people. Even as internal Kremlin propaganda screeches about the threat of NATO, no politicians have reached out to talk to the Russian people directly. We were much better at this in the Cold War, when Margaret Thatcher famously went on Soviet television and skillfully debated and beat their current affairs presenters. Back then Russians were shrouded in censorship, today it is infinitely easier to reach out and engage though social media.

The catch is that that side doesn't know that it isn't what it thinks it is. Get it?

[ralfy]

Interestingly enough, first published in Newsweek, and presented by a right-wing group. That's the same outlet that first reported on something like a billion dollars a year Congress was giving to Saddam, and how the CIA had full knowledge of gas attacks on the Kurds but did not react.

"The U.S. and NATO Helped Trigger the Ukraine War. It's Not 'Siding With Putin' to Admit It"

https://www.cato.org/commentary/us-nato-helped-trigger-ukraine-war-its-not-siding-putin-admit-it

Yet U.S. and European officials blew through one red light after another. George W. Bush began to treat Georgia and Ukraine as valued U.S. political and military allies, and in 2008, he pressed NATO to admit Ukraine and Georgia as members. French and German wariness delayed that endeavor, but the NATO summit communique affirmed that both countries would eventually achieve that status.

In his 2014 memoir, Duty, Robert M. Gates, who served as secretary of defense in both Bush's administration and Barack Obama's, conceded that "trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into NATO was truly overreaching." That initiative, he concluded, was a case of "recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests."

At some point,  the U.S. will realize that Russia is acting just like the U.S., except that it does not have the same killing power and wide coverage, which is why like China it can only contest surrounding areas.

To do what the U.S. does one needs the U.S. dollar. That's why even NATO chamchas have to remain within the U.S. orbit of power.

The implication is that as a bipolar world becomes a multipolar one, with economic power from BRICS and emerging markets challenging U.S. military power, then there will more wars.

[ralfy]

"War, Greed and Mass Manipulation"

https://www.globalissues.org/news/2022/10/26/32248

Some worrisome signs were nevertheless written on the wall. In 2004, Putin declared the collapse of the Soviet Union as" the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century." Meanwhile, his acolytes were amassing the spoils from the collapsed Soviet Empire. Putin supported and protected those oligarchs who backed him, while bankrolling his inner circle.

In Munich 2007, Putin bared his teeth and claws in a speech given at an international Security Conference. He declared that the US was a predatory nation prone to apply an "almost unconstrained hyper-use of force – military force – in international relations plunging the world into an abyss of conflicts." This revelation was in 2008 followed by Russia´s military assault on neighbouring Georgia.

Unfortunately, the writer does not discuss that "unconstrained hyper-use of force". Instead, he focuses only on Trump.

[ralfy]

From November, 2020:

"How the Western Press Lied About the 2014 Coup in Ukraine, Pretending That It Was Instead a Real Democratic Revolution"

https://strategic-culture.org/news/2020/11/25/how-western-press-lied-about-2014-coup-ukraine-pretending-real-democratic-revolution/

The essay focuses on what many do not want to talk about, which is Obama's (and Trump's) involvement in manipulation of Ukraine.

Whether or not the economic losses did amount to $160 billion (as Ukraine's own experts had estimated) — or more, or less, than that — those losses did turn out to be enormous; and, Obama, clearly, raped Ukrainians. He destroyed Ukraine (and Trump did nothing to reverse that). Here is how this happened:

On 23 June 2011, two emissaries of the Obama Administration — the head of Google, Eric Schmidt, and his aide, and former subordinate to Hillary Clinton in the U.S. State Department, Jared Cohen — visited Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, pretending to be on his side, while deceiving him to reveal to them ways to reach out online to members of Ukraine's pro-nazi organizations in order to generate mobs for the demonstrations which were to be organized on Kiev's Maidan Square to overthrow Ukraine's President.