OT: the Gender Wars in North America

[Chopper]

one day i was bored and i did a net search for marriage advice (why i'm still not sure) and i came across all these websites that were in fact anti-marriage, especially condeming american men marrying america women.

upon my further research into the net i discovered quite a bit of sights that are very anti american woman. i was going to post some links but i didn't want to get slammed for promoting their material.

what do you all of this movement in the US? do you think the men behind this are just hurt? misogynistic?

i'm curious to hear everyones opinions because i know a lot of your are married or probably have some good insight into this issue and why people would harbor such hatred.

[Zapranoth]

I haven't read the sites you are talking about, since you didn't name any,  but I have listened to Tom Leykis' show.  He is quite misogynistic and anti-marriage, although he tries to claim that he's just rational and fair,  etc, blah blah blah.  But he isn't.  He's just articulate and good at running people in circles on the air. (and bitter!)

Speaking strictly about his show, and about the people I've heard calling in to him in support, I'd say that the basis of it is mostly immaturity and unrealistic expectations.  Many of the people who are maddest are those who got married too early, for the wrong reasons, without any clear plans for their futures.  People who have been that stupid just want something to blame, and blaming the "rising divorce rate" as though it were an alien robot that landed in NY gives them something to make themselves feel adequately victimized, and not to blame for their failure to think.

A lot of the guys who call in to the Leykis show are hedonistic little punks who think they will be young forever, and who have no clue about what it's like to be fifty and utterly alone, but are about to find out.  Most of them don't have sufficient force of personality to be considered to have "hatred" for anything.

So many people decide to marry for really no good reason at all, and then they decide (they choose) to be bitter about it because they were stupid and f**ked up.  A few of them choose not to be bitter about it, admit their mistakes, and try to be more careful about their choices in the future, but I see and hear the stories of so many people who just plain screw up and enter into marriage with totally unrealistic expectations and **no** plan.

I would be careful about calling the persons responsible for the web sites a "movement."  "Movement" implies large numbers, political clout, etc.  What you're talking about is a bunch of bloggers and malcontents, most likely.

It's all just internet ramblings, Chopper, including my opinion on the matter.  The insititution of marriage has fallen on hard times in the USA, no doubt about it, but the sacrament remains the same.   I wouldn't pay too much attention to the negative folks.  I used to listen to Leykis for the fun of it, but then I realized that I was a happier person when I didn't listen to his show (or watch TV).

And for God's sake *don't* look on the net for marriage advice!!!   >.<

[dean]

I really don't know what you mean by the Gender Wars in North America, or what exactly these anti-marriage people are all about, so I can't really comment on that.

But really, what drew you to seek out marriage advice, even on an urge out of boredom?

That in itself is the true mystery! :-P

[Chopper]

thanks Zapranoth and Dean for you input, and to answer your question Dean i was referring to the web sites i found that were anti marriage and very against dating american women.
 
to be honest i have no idea, haha. just curious what was out there on the net about the subject. i always look up wierd things online, too much time on my hands.

[dean]

I understood that they were anti marriage and against dating American women, I was just curious as to why exactly because it seemed a little odd. Also the way you titled the subject made it seem like a [fairly] large issue in the US, and since I'm not in the US I wouldn't exactly know about that sort of thing.

But sounds like some crazy silly stuff really!

[odinn7]

Being married is give and take. My wife gives me s**t all the time and I sit there and take it.  :)
Sometimes I wish for the days when I was single, other times I'm glad I'm married. It all comes down to how you look at things.

[Mr_Vindictive]

odinn7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sometimes I wish for the days when I was single,
> other times I'm glad I'm married. It all comes
> down to how you look at things.



Truer words have never been spoken.

[trekgeezer]

When I first read the part about these guys being anti being with American women it made me think of these jack asses who get themselves a mail order bride from Asia or Russia just to have a housekeeper they can abuse.

There are a lot of places in the world where women are still treated like chattel. American women for the most part tend to stand up for themselves and expect more out of life than keeping house and waiting for hubby to come home.

I lucked out marrying the right woman (someone who I could be myself around), some people don't get so lucky.

[Chopper]

that's funny what you mention the mail order brides because there was this one site that practically had a list of the countries you should ONLY seek women from for marriage. like russia, southeast asia, HAHA. if only lifes problems were that easy. i have had some crappy dating experiences in the US but i think what it comes down to is problems with relationships are universal, regardless of where you're at.

[Chopper]

must be lucky to be away from the mess :) J/K - i'm sure these problems are all over the world. to paraphrase what some of them said: "american women are the quickest to cheat, get fat, are ingrained with femi-nazism since day one, are psycho."

[ulthar]

Chopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> i'm curious to hear everyones opinions because i
> know a lot of your are married or probably have
> some good insight into this issue and why people
> would harbor such hatred.
>

Because they are brain-dead? Though there are exceptions, it generally takes two to make a failed relationship (if there is truly a relationship there).  I good friend of mine once told me, while I was in the middle of a rather ugly break-up, that a relationship cannot be undone in less time than it took to build it.

Shallow relationships are easy to undo.  Deeper ones are much harder to break.  Too often, in our high-paced, me-me-me culture, the relationships are shallow.  In this case, it is easy to blame "externals" (other people, events or circumstances) for the failure rather than to look inwardly at why a deep, long lasting relationship was not built.

For me at least, getting some sense and stopping to act like a selfish jerk was the beginning step in forming a long lasting relationship with the woman who became my wife.  To be clear, though, I don't think this is something only us guys have to get over; I think it works both ways.

[Flangepart]

Zapranoth : As you mention Leykis, your piece also makes me think about why Liberal Talk radio tends to vaccume.
It comes across, like the drunk at the bar you wich would just go away and quit bothering you with his problims, particulary once you realise he don't want real advice, just someone who will agree with him.
Some Conservitive types do that too, but its more Liberals, as they tend to be more emotionaly based, and caught up in whineing about the fact the world ain't perfect.

Its an imperfect world, cause we're all imperfect...just some of us deal with the fact, and move on.

[Amanda]

*LMFAO*
"american women are the quickest to cheat, get fat, are ingrained with femi-nazism since day one, are psycho."

That tickles the s**t out of me.  *runs through mental checklist*  Nope, never cheated.  Yes, I'm a fat ass.  Femi-nazism?  I pretty much dislike every super feminist I've ever met.  Psycho?  Well, yeah.  Can't deny that one.  

*honestly cannot stop laughing at that statement*

[Amanda]

It's true that American women do tend to stick up for themselves and want more out of life than babies and a house to clean.  I admit, I am outspoken, and blunt to a point.  Tact is not my strongpoint.  At times, that's a blessing and at others, a curse.  But I don't see the harm in wanting to stay home with the kids, being a housewife.  I'd personally really enjoy that.  

I'm lucky to have found my husband.  He's the quiet to my loud.  He's the normalcy to my eccentricity.  My mom thought he was the best thing ever because he calmed me down.  I had a wicked bad temper, and now, after being with him for 8 years, I've mellowed in a major way.  

It does take two to make it work, and to break it.  The main problem in America is that nobody takes responsiblilty for their own actions anymore.  It's always your fault, you ruined my life, I'm an innocent here.  One stereotype is, while not 100% true, getting truer by the minute.  American women are materialistic and want men for the money and gifts, and American men want women that are, ah, upgradeable.  That's harsh, but we're growing shallower by the day.  My god in heaven, look at Joan Rivers!  Any surgeon with an ounce of common sense and decency would have drawn the line years ago.  

I'm moderate politcally, I suppose.  There are some liberal points I agree with, and some conservative.  But I do feel like marriage, on the whole, is under stress.  And I don't mean through any gay agenda or anything like that.  I take my marriage very seriously, I didn't enter into it lightly.  It takes work.  We have a lot of similar interests, and it seems like we're sailing along pretty good, but there are rough patches.  It's a lifetime commitment, and I am commited to it.  

There's really no new advice anywhere.  The old stuff is tried and true.  Listen to your spouse.  Pay attention.  Have fun. Fight.  Keep renewing interest.  It works, but it seems nobody listens to it anymore.  

I know, I didn't add anything new to this thread.  I just wanted to be a typical American Woman and voice an opinion.  :) Damn me to hell.  

[Chopper]

Thank you for your insight Amanda, i agree that marriage is falling on hard times in our country. the reason i told everyone about these websites was to get everyone's opinion on their misogynistic content. while i do think a lot of women in america are shallow on materialistic i don't think it warrants anyone to hate them all.