Less Military deaths during war time than during peace time ...

[ulthar]

I, too, won't be changing my point of view (until convinced I am wrong). 

It's not my goal here to change anyone's point of view.  But, a dude I know is fond of saying "when you put a number on it, it's science.  Otherwise, it's voodoo."  So, in that spirit, I thought I'd share some raw data on one point being contended.

It was said in the above discussion:

You and I know that the vast majority of enlistees are poor, underprivileged, looking for a way out of their circumstances, and don't know any better.

The US Military collects and reports demographic data.  You can read the report for each branch.  WARNING: these are pdf's up to about 2 megabytes.

https://www.armyg1.army.mil/hr/docs/demographics/FY05%20Army%20Profile.pdf
https://www.armyg1.army.mil/hr/docs/demographics/FY04%20Air%20Force%20Profile.pdf
https://www.armyg1.army.mil/hr/docs/demographics/FY04%20Navy%20Profile.pdf
https://www.armyg1.army.mil/hr/docs/demographics/FY04%20Marine%20Corps%20Profile.pdf

I'll summarize some of the US Army data since that branch is generally believed to be the "poorest" and "least priviledged."

In FY 2005, the US Army was

• 13.5% Black, compared to 12.3% Black in the US Popuiation in the 2000 Census
• 11.7% Hispanic, compared to 12.5% Hispanic in the US Population in 2000 Census
• 87% have a High School Diploma or HIGHER education, compared to 85.2% of the general US Population having attained the HS Diploma in 2005.
• Among the enlisted grades, 82.9% ONLY had HS Diploma or GED, while another 7.2% had some college and 4.3% had a 4 year degree.
• Virtually all officers had at least some college, with 58.4% only having a BS/BA.  Graduate degree holders comprised another 40.3% of the officer corps.

The report did not include 'family income' or similar background prior to enlistment, so we cannot say from this data alone whether the enlisted ranks come from the poor.

However, we can draw meaningful conclusions.  90% of the enlisted grade have an education.  I believe this suggests that 90% of those that have enlisted in the US Army have the same opportunites "in life" as anyone else in the population.  Actually, the percentage of the enlisted grade with HSD/GED is HIGHER than for the general population.

The poorer segments of our population are overrepresented in the 'high school drop-out' statistics.  Since the vast majority of our enlistees have completed High School, I submit that the "Army is the ONLY way out" argument is not supported by the data we have.

[CheezeFlixz]

The report did not include 'family income' or similar background prior to enlistment, so we cannot say from this data alone whether the enlisted ranks come from the poor.

Here is that data about who's poor, mid, rich, or ultra rich.
Most are middle income and mostly rural or suburban joining.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2005/d20051213mythfact.pdf

[Allhallowsday]

Karma to Cheeze AND AllHallows for settling things like gentlemen!!  Great topic; I'm trying to catch up after being off the forum for several days or I would add my own thoughts, but for the moment I will restrict myself to this:


What Cheeze said.

I promised one of my oldest friends that I am off the topic of politics at least thru the new year, though must point out that my own stupid word was "poor" which is a relative term. 

You all surprise me with your grace.  I even like disagreeing with you guys... 

[CheezeFlixz]

You all surprise me with your grace.  I even like disagreeing with you guys... 

Well, we have to look out for the kids on the short bus.

It's joke son .. laugh, don't start twitchin' on me.

[Allhallowsday]

It's joke son .. laugh, don't start twitchin' on me.

Yer such an ...
I just noticed 999 !!!  I can count that high !  sjokeson, don take no short bus