You Know What Really Grinds My Gears?

[Jim H]

Think I'm wrong? What is the most common argument for legalizing pot? Prohibition... And what ended Prohibition?

Jim H has I made my point?

You're now making a slippery slope argument, more or less.  I'm not convinced such a slope exists.

The countries that have decriminalized personal drug use have not seen this slide, so I see no reason to believe it'd happen here.  Look at Spain, Italy, and Portugal.  They have not had any measurable negative consequences to their decriminalization whatsoever.  As to how to define a "personal" amount, Portugal considers it roughly 10 days worth of daily doses.  There is no exact line here, one just has to be made up.  And frankly, if that allows extremely small time dealers to get away with it, I couldn't care less.

Oh, and I primarily agree with Flick James on this.  The money is secondary.

First what's good in another country doesnt mean its good for USA. Equally is true for every country.

Second most of those countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIGS_(economics)) are bankrupt (based upon their own design) and since the USA is heading towards Europe (thanks to our new president) those countries are going deeper into the hole. Also they dont have the responsablity for being a world power and they dont have the responsability to keep the world together... The USA does. Saddly our responsabilty for being a world power does place us at at a higher standard.

Third... The Prohibition argument does exist because everybody that is pro-pot keeps bring it up. Like I said I'm pointing out the chain. Ones pot becomes legal somebody will be pushing something else and use legalize pot for the excuess.

#1 You are correct.  That's not actually an argument in either direction though.  It could work out far better here too. 

But, how it worked in other countries is simply all we have to go on at this point.  It is possible it would work out differently here, that I'd acknowledge.  If it really caused problems, they can always change the laws again.  As is, I'm simply baffled at what kinds of problems it could cause. 

#2 makes absolutely no sense to me at all.  We have "higher standards" and "responsibility" so we have to treat drug users WORSE than other countries? 

#3 Again you're making a baseless slippery slope argument.  But it's not related to anything I said (I only referenced decriminalizing drugs period, not any specific drug), so whatever.

[Skull]

#2 makes absolutely no sense to me at all.  We have "higher standards" and "responsibility" so we have to treat drug users WORSE than other countries?

lol... I'd wish. I really do. most of the time a drug user will be arrested and released within 24 hours sometimes much less. As I was trying to say (without being focused on drug dealers/users) is that our higher standards place us above other countries, in general.

#3 Again you're making a baseless slippery slope argument.  But it's not related to anything I said (I only referenced decriminalizing drugs period, not any specific drug), so whatever.

Ok, lets pretend Prohibition never happen (that means you cannot refer to any argument saying that its too hard for the police to control and say that it can be done)... So why should drugs should become legal?

[indianasmith]

Prohibition worked far better on the state level, actually.  It was when the feds took it over in 1920 that it became a dismal failure.

[Jim H]

lol... I'd wish. I really do. most of the time a drug user will be arrested and released within 24 hours sometimes much less.

lets pretend Prohibition never happen (that means you cannot refer to any argument saying that its too hard for the police to control and say that it can be done)... So why should drugs should become legal?

Skull, most of the time when you respond to any of my points you slip to the side and essentially ignore most of what I said and concentrate on related topics that I didn't actually talk about, or instead get into semantics.  Therefore, I'm not going to argue about this anymore.

[indianasmith]

So, to come full circle, you could say that Skull was really grinding your gears in this thread!

[Skull]

lol... I'd wish. I really do. most of the time a drug user will be arrested and released within 24 hours sometimes much less.

lets pretend Prohibition never happen (that means you cannot refer to any argument saying that its too hard for the police to control and say that it can be done)... So why should drugs should become legal?

Skull, most of the time when you respond to any of my points you slip to the side and essentially ignore most of what I said and concentrate on related topics that I didn't actually talk about, or instead get into semantics.  Therefore, I'm not going to argue about this anymore.

look, the only reason I'm even on this topic is based upon the idea that government is willing to release prisoners and change the laws (not because they realize that the law was bad) but because they cannot afford keeping people in jail because it cost the government 20,000 to 50,000 for each prisoner per year and I've pointed out that was a BS number. Although I dont have any actual data... I did use the common price of living to compair prices and I have factor that each prisoner may cost as much as 16,000 although it also proves that my assumption is also grossly over price since we all know that 600 dollars on utilites (based upon 2 prisoners in each cell) times that by 500 cells is 300,000 per month on gas, water and lighting... And feeding a prisoner 15 dollars a day based upon breakfest, lunch and supper at McDonalds... then again my numbers dont even touch the 20,000 dollars.

this whole drug argument is a side issue that I really didnt want to waste my time but it seems that I keep steping into it.

Yes I'm anti drug. I dont see any reason why it should be legal and any argument to legalize drugs also sickens me because the very issue to legalize drugs is based upon personal selfishness. I've lost friends because they kept doing drugs. Drugs does hurt even those that dont do drugs! and that is based upon my own personal experience.

But I do agree with you on one thing...

I'm not going to argue about this anymore, too. [I've think I had said enough about my feelings about decriminalizing drugs]

I'm still happy to talk about the price of prisoners... 

[Jim H]

You know, I was tempted to leave a pleasant closing remark Skull, except that you just called me and several others on this thread selfish (I think, your statement there is a little confusing).  I don't quite know how to respond to that.  So, whatever.

As an actual contribution to the thread...

The layout of the city of St. Louis.  Every direction is a trap.  There are numerous exits and streets that if you go down them, you can't go back to where you came from without literally driving for 5-10 minutes if you KNOW how to get back.  If you have to guess, you can't, as the layout was apparently designed by a mad man.  I missed my exit yesterday, took the next one I saw to turn around, and ended up spending over 20 minutes trying to find my way back. 

It sucks.

[Skull]

You know, I was tempted to leave a pleasant closing remark Skull, except that you just called me and several others on this thread selfish (I think, your statement there is a little confusing).  I don't quite know how to respond to that.  So, whatever.

I'm calling it as I see it. The only confusion is justifying an activity that destroys the mind, the body and the people around you.

[Silverlady]

Prohibition worked far better on the state level, actually.  It was when the feds took it over in 1920 that it became a dismal failure.

It seems whenever the feds take over anything it becomes a dismal failure 

[JaseSF]

Some native communities in Labrador have instituted prohibition within their communities because abuse had become such a major problem. Last I heard, this change has proved a major improvement in these areas.

Personally I'm not sure I agree with forcing such a choice upon people but maybe I'd feel differently if it was negatively affecting an entire community of which I was a part...

[3mnkids]

As an actual contribution to the thread...

The layout of the city of St. Louis.  Every direction is a trap.  There are numerous exits and streets that if you go down them, you can't go back to where you came from without literally driving for 5-10 minutes if you KNOW how to get back.  If you have to guess, you can't, as the layout was apparently designed by a mad man.  I missed my exit yesterday, took the next one I saw to turn around, and ended up spending over 20 minutes trying to find my way back. 

It sucks.

I hate going across the river     It is so confusing and I always get lost.

[Doggett]

As an actual contribution to the thread...

The layout of the city of St. Louis.  Every direction is a trap.  There are numerous exits and streets that if you go down them, you can't go back to where you came from without literally driving for 5-10 minutes if you KNOW how to get back.  If you have to guess, you can't, as the layout was apparently designed by a mad man.  I missed my exit yesterday, took the next one I saw to turn around, and ended up spending over 20 minutes trying to find my way back. 

It sucks.

I hate going across the river     It is so confusing and I always get lost.

Reminds me of this place:

[Jack]

Any time you've got a major road with a side street running parallel to it about 50 feet away, and then a cross street intersecting both of them, it's a huge mess.  People sit at the the intersection of the side street, finally get their chance to approach the major road just as the light's turning yellow, and oh gee, there I was waiting to make a left turn but now you're blasting through here at 40 mph.   

[wickednick]

Sorry for bringing up the drug topic again, but this is something that really interests me. First I am for the legalization of Marijuana, not because of any supposed medical use, but because of all the illegal drugs it is the least problematic, even compared to legal drugs like alcohol.
But I don't think that legalizing all drugs is a good thing and could have very sever consequences. America is not like most of the smaller european countries that have decriminalized drugs. We are a very large country, with a larger population, with big appetites for recreation. We have a capitalist economy, where if there is a profit to be made off of something, somebody will find a way. If all drugs were de-criminalized here I think we could see wide spread marketing of very dangerous drugs.
And also most drugs are illegal for a good reason. Coke, while not the worst of the hard drugs, can become very addictive and I've seen friends who have become serious coke heads and spend all their money on that stuff, as their bodies waste away.
Opium is a drug so bad even the Chinese began prohibiting its use in 1729. Heroin is one of the most destructive drugs on the planet, think of how many great musicians have died because of that drug.
Meth is another drug that is insanely dangerous. While it might not kill you the effects it has on your body and mind stay with you long after you quit, just ask my ex girlfriend. She started using meth and it has screwed her mind up so much now she has to take anti-psychotic medications, just to keep sane.

[Jack]

I agree with you wyckednick.  Another thing is that when a person has to buy pot from a drug dealer, that dealer can probably make more money from them if they push them into a harder drug.  If you could buy pot from a regular store, the employees wouldn't have any stake in getting them hooked on something more profitable, so maybe that would be a better situation.  And as someone who smoked pot for ten years or so, it's just absurd to have it be illegal when hard liquor - which is several times more powerful - is legal.