Let's Wax Philosophical . . .

[Mr. DS]

Behave gents, behave.  Lets not resort to name calling and hasty remarks. 

[Umaril The Unfeathered]

Umaril - Some of your comments have been very intelligent and meaningful, but when you and he get going, the drama becomes somewhat overwhelming . . . no insult to either of you, because I like you both, I just don't care to wade into that particular waterhole.  I wasn't meaning to insult some of your earlier, enjoyable commentary.  And, at the time I wrote that, I was very anxious to get back to the exchange that I was having with Flick, which is one of the better debates I have ever had.

Again, nothing against you, Indy. I just want it to be understood that because I never went to Berkeley, or because I don't have a degree in history or religion, that dosen't mean I'm uneducated or below the understanding of the topic at hand.

And yes, intelligent and meaningful (and sometimes angry) commentary is part of who I am. It dosen't make me any less of a person.

And unlike AHD, I don't deliberately try to antagonize and instigate because I can't get my way.  AHD can't get my confession, so he has to act like a baby. You yourself remarked on his actions. 

I say my mind, and I say straight.  I don't say it with symbols because I can't understand the English language...

[indianasmith]

Resectfully, I think both of you need to chill.  It's evident you don't like each other, and the back and forth between the two of  you becomes more emotional and less substantive the longer it goes on - whether on this thread or on the "clash of cultures" thread.  People are entitled to their opinions, and I think that we should be able to discuss them without veering off into endless personal attacks.

Umaril, while you and I are closer together politically and philosophically, you are a bit too quick to take offense and get personal for my comfort.  It's OK for people to disagree with you, and every single exchange doesn't have to be hashed and rehashed ad nauseum.

AHD, if Umaril bugs you so much, quit responding to him altogether!  You are not going to persuade him of anything, especially if you keep referring to him as "it".


NOW, BACK TO THE FUN STUFF -

Flick - your Deism fascinates me.  Your comments could have been written by the godfather of American deism himself, Thomas Jefferson.  I agree with the idea that God is a creature of order who made the universe to run according to observable, measurable laws.  I believe that mankind is God's child - whatever steps were involved in the creation process, He made us and endowed us with free will and the ability to make moral choices.  That, more than anything, is what the "made in his image" scriptures refer to.
  Here is where we part company.  While God created and sustains natural law, He Himself is above and beyond it.  Picture Him as the author of a story - he creates the characters and their world, organizes the scenario and controls the overall flow.  But he is NOT bound by the rules that control His characters.
  Now, the miracles of the Bible are not random events.  God, as a supernatural being, is capable of working through supernatural events but rarely chooses to do so.  However, like any parent, when His child is in danger, God will throw the rules of physics out the window to act.  There are three great clusters of miracles in Scripture - one accompanying the Exodus, when God rescued His chosen people from slavery in  Egypt and established them as a nation in their own right.  His signs and wonders demonstrated both His covenant love for them and his protective governance of their fate.  The second great outbreak of miracles was during the time of Elijah and Elisha, when the worship of Yahweh was threatened with extinction by a wicked King of Israel and his idolatrous spouse.  God stepped in, in a rather spectacular way, to recall the people to their faith and show the idolaters who was truly God in Israel.  Then the last, of course, was during the ministry of Christ and the establishment of the church.  God had to prove to the world that Jesus of Nazareth was His Son - the "Word made flesh."  Since any man can verbally claim to be a God, having a peerless message was not enough.  God had to show enough evidence through Christ to remove all doubt.  John's account is especially instructive here - he only records seven of Christ's miracles, but each was more impressive than the last, and each was chosen to demostrate that there was only one Person whom Jesus of Nazareth COULD be - the incarnate Creator Himself.

  Your studies have taken you in a different direction from me, and that of course is your right.  But do not accuse me of "blind faith."  My intellect took me to a point where faith was the only logical conclusion.  None of the scenarios you envision - desperate disciples trying to give meaning to the life of a failed and murdered teacher by stealing His body, then proclaiming Him as the Risen Lord?  Voluntarily dying for a faith they KNEW to be based on a lie?  How about the fact that Jesus' own brothers, who rejected His claims and were embarassed by His teachings?  Yet after the Resurrection they emerge as leaders of the Jerusalem church and firm advocates of the Lordship of Jesus.  What would it take for you to believe that your OWN brother, whom you shared a room and bath and toothbrush with, was the Son of God?  Paul nailed it, 22 years after the Resurrection, when he penned these words to the Church at Corinth - "If Christ be not raised, then our faith is in vain . . .  if we have hoped in Christ for this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied."

I thank you for a brilliant, insightful, and civil exchange on this topic.  I look forward to your reply.

[indianasmith]

Looking above, I realized my still somewhat fevered brain had run together some of Lester's posts in the "Clash of Civilizations" thread with some of AHD's replies to Umaril, and I accused him of proloing the confrontation between them needlessly.  I was mistaken.  My apologies, I am going to bed before I get even more confused.

[Allhallowsday]

AHD, if Umaril bugs you so much, quit responding to him altogether!  You are not going to persuade him of anything, especially if you keep referring to him as "it".

Mr. "FUN STUFF" I'm here to ruin your FUN.    But not at all intentionally.  
So, it is cool for me, the lefty to be referred to as "she" and "her" (cool by me) ??  Which is intended to insult.  Hey, so it's all a response, and perfectly fair in the context that I am responding to.  Please stop underestimating me.  

Looking above, I realized my still somewhat fevered brain had run together some of Lester's posts in the "Clash of Civilizations" thread with some of AHD's replies to Umaril, and I accused him of prolonging the confrontation between them needlessly.  I was mistaken.  My apologies, I am going to bed before I get even more confused.

What do you mean "some"?  I had two replies.  I'm starting to hate this forum for its tolerance of this kind of crap.   I am entitled to an opinion and all the obscuring commentary won't obscure the record of the posts.  But who gives crap?  Nobody reads 'em, they're too busy writing their own thoughts.  Don't worry, and don't lock any threads, the most loathsome aspect of this forum is the haste to do so.  I'm done with this topic.  

[Umaril The Unfeathered]

AHD, if Umaril bugs you so much, quit responding to him altogether!  You are not going to persuade him of anything, especially if you keep referring to him as "it".

So, it is cool for me, the lefty to be referred to as "she" and "her" (cool by me) ??  Which is intended to insult.  Hey, so it's all a response, and perfectly fair in the context that I am responding to.  Please stop underestimating me.

AHD, sweetie. You have to accept your own responsibility in this. To be fair, I have apologized to you several times for my initial mistaken identity caper. And you kept bringing it up, and beating me over the head with it. And I asked you to stop. You didn't.

AHD, honey. You made fun of my reply in this thread on page 2, in your own form of instigation. And Indy has told you several times that you were doing so in other threads.. So is HE wrong too?  Is he your enemy now because he's pointed out your own wrongdoing?

Underestimating you? No, you just underestimated ME.  You want me to stop? then YOU stop.  You're a big (boy?) and you should realize that compromise must be effected sometimes in order to bring about the desired result.

Looking above, I realized my still somewhat fevered brain had run together some of Lester's posts in the "Clash of Civilizations" thread with some of AHD's replies to Umaril, and I accused him of prolonging the confrontation between them needlessly.  I was mistaken.  My apologies, I am going to bed before I get even more confused.

What do you mean "some"?   I had two replies.  I'm starting to hate this forum for its tolerance of this kind of crap.   I am entitled to an opinion and all the obscuring commentary won't obscure the record of the posts.

But who gives crap?  Nobody reads 'em, they're too busy writing their own thoughts.  Don't worry, and don't lock any threads, the most loathsome aspect of this forum is the haste to do so.  I'm done with this topic.  

Why hate it? Your crap gets tolerated too...oh I see there's only room for one load of crap, so it has to be yours.

Apparently I'm an itch in your knickers, sweetheart.  Well, let me just harmonize with one of your earlier replies to me on page 2 of this article:

 
 

You like it? No, well neither did I. For all your claims of transparency and responsibility you claim the Right lacks, perhaps you should take some of that yourself.

Don't want it done? Then don't do it to me or anyone else.  You respect me, I respect you, that's the deal, don't add any numbers. respect is a two-way street.   

[Allhallowsday]

Poor li'l ol' PILE, poor li'l ol' match seller, not no matchgirl, that'd be me, ADHD   that leftee leenin' tower o' terror, abused and neglected, female type cow, whipped.   yeller witch   That's me!!   He he he he he he he heee.

[Andrew]

AllHallowsDay and Umaril, let me make this clear:  your disagreement might well go on, but not in public on this forum.  If you want to debate your views, then that is fine.  Debate the issues.  Do not start throwing insults around.

Umaril, you have been way out of line in this thread.  AllHallowsDay created a post of smileys.  While that may have little in the way of contribution (and seemed dismissive), your responses were personally insulting, extremely rude, and immature.  From what I know you are an adult.  Act like one.

I wish I had noticed this nonsense earlier.