Main Menu

Good Guy(s) Cheating To Win

Started by Mr. DS, January 16, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

ChaosTheory

Quote from: DS on January 18, 2012, 08:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ted C on January 17, 2012, 10:54:22 PM
Quote from: DS on January 16, 2012, 11:57:16 AM
I really dislike when "heroes" in a film have to cheat to win.  Theres many instances and varieties.  One I can think of is the whole 2 on 1  matchups.  A perfect example of this would be Obiwan and Quigon VS Darth Maul in Star Wars Episode 1.  Maul clearly could take either one of them in a 1 on 1. 

Other film examples?

Exactly what did Obi-Wan do that you would regard as cheating?
Per my statement, teaming up with Quigon to take on one Sith lord.  2 vs 1 is usually an unfair advantage.

Usually being the key word there; the design of Maul's sabre, and his fighting style, suggests that he's used to taking on multiple enemies. Besides, he technically won that fight.  If he had finished Obi-Wan off as soon as he had him down instead of standing there taunting him, Obi-Wan wouldn't have had time to force-grab Qui-gonn's sabre and counter-attack. (I've heard a lot of fans refer to that as a cheat, but why harness The Force if you're not going to use it when your life is at stake, and besides Maul got cocky and left himself open for it.) 
I get your point, but I think Maul's a special case.
Through the darkness of future past
The magician longs to see
One chance opts between two worlds
Fire walk with me

Ted C

Quote from: DS on January 18, 2012, 08:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ted C on January 17, 2012, 10:54:22 PM
Exactly what did Obi-Wan do that you would regard as cheating?
Per my statement, teaming up with Quigon to take on one Sith lord.  2 vs 1 is usually an unfair advantage.
If there were some kind of understood agreement about "single-combat" between Jedi and Sith, I might agree, but there was clearly no such understanding, and Maul was obviously quite happy to take them both on at once. Quite frankly, he won. He only got killed by getting careless; one more little Force push and it would have been Obi-Wan at the bottom of that shaft instead of Maul.
"Slugs?  He created slugs? I would have started with lasers, six o'clock, day one!" -- Evil, Time Bandits

Ted C

Quote from: InformationGeek on January 23, 2012, 12:08:11 PM
It wasn't from a movie, but Batman has cheated before to beat some of enemies.  When fighting a villian called Prometheus, who used these disks implanted in his helmet to give special fighting ablities (It's comic books, don't question it), Batman surprised by switching the disk the villian was using to give him the fighting ability of Stephen Hawking.  According to friend who asked him during the fight if he was cheating, his response was that he was winning.
You could easily argue that Prometheus was cheating first, and Batman just countered his cheat.
"Slugs?  He created slugs? I would have started with lasers, six o'clock, day one!" -- Evil, Time Bandits

Ted C

Quote from: Hammock Rider on January 19, 2012, 12:40:25 PM
Indy shooting that Sword Guy in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Funny as hell though.

Shouldn't have brought a sword to a gun fight.
"Slugs?  He created slugs? I would have started with lasers, six o'clock, day one!" -- Evil, Time Bandits

Flick James

There's an old saying from my Navy days (although how old I'm not sure):

If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't tryin'.
I don't always talk about bad movies, but when I do, I prefer badmovies.org

ChaosTheory

Quote from: Flick James on January 24, 2012, 02:27:15 PM
There's an old saying from my Navy days (although how old I'm not sure):

If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't tryin'.

LOL nice. Also:
"A thing worth having is a thing worth cheating for." -- W.C. Fields  :cheers:
Through the darkness of future past
The magician longs to see
One chance opts between two worlds
Fire walk with me

BoyScoutKevin

Quote from: Hammock Rider on January 19, 2012, 12:40:25 PM
Indy shooting that Sword Guy in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Funny as hell though.



Yeah, I like that one as well, but as I understand it, the scene wasn't originally written that way. It was originally written so Indy would beat the guy using his whip. But the day that scene was to be filmed, Ford was suffering from a severe cold, so he didn't want to do the scene as originally written. So they rewrote the scene so that Indy just shot the guy. If true, sometimes the best scenes in films happen by accident.

Trevor

Quote from: BoyScoutKevin on January 24, 2012, 07:27:16 PM
But the day that scene was to be filmed, Ford was suffering from a severe cold, so he didn't want to do the scene as originally written. So they rewrote the scene so that Indy just shot the guy. If true, sometimes the best scenes in films happen by accident.

I read that Harrison Ford had a bad case of dysentery and pleaded with Steven Spielberg to please just let him shoot the guy. In doing so they could save four days of shooting and save Mr Ford's underpants from more fouling.  :buggedout: :twirl:
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness.

alandhopewell

Quote from: Flick James on January 17, 2012, 11:29:01 AM
Superman II

Not exactly cheating, but as much as I love that movie, the bad guys, even General Zod, are kind of morons. They are evil and brutal and have no morals, but as evil as they are, they seem to have no knowledge of human nature at all. Everything is at face value. Superman doesn't necessarily cheat when he tricks them at the end via Lex Luthor because he knows he will betray him, because, like ulthar said, it's war. However, when you consider what a boyscout Superman is, it's kind of like cheating because he is taking advantage of what he knows about Luthor that they do not. It's not in his character to be underhanded. I've always considered it a little bit like cheating for him.

     A similar instance, in BATMAN BEGINS, with Batman and Ras Al Gul:
"I won't kill you....but I don't have to save you."

     That's so NOT Batman-he's not a thug, which the Bale version was, particularly in THE DARK KNIGHT. Also, I think Batman would've found a way to clear the manor (BB) than what he did.
If it's true what they say, that GOD created us in His image, then why should we not love creating, and why should we not continue to do so, as carefully and ethically as we can, on whatever scale we're capable of?

     The choice is simple; refuse to create, and refuse to grow, or build, with care and love.