Who should be the next president?

[indianasmith]

And I'll say this again:  I don't support Hillary Clinton.  AT ALL.

But if the Republicans had nominated someone respectable and reasonable, instead of this . . . orange mess we picked, we'd be winning, going away.  As it is, Trump is trailing in nearly all the nationwide polls, and may be losing a couple of states that have been reliably red for a long time.

I just hope the GOP learns a lesson from all this when it is done.

[lester1/2jr]

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-trade-details-563ba7a680a4#.z06n9xm3i

left wing site "debunks" trumps economic views. He wants to leave NAFTA, others like it you can't debunk an opinion guys

"Economists argue many of them aren't possible."

we can do whatever we want, anyone can how can you say something isn't possible

here's their expert
"NAFTA was a bad thing for American workers, but it's not clear that pulling out is good for workers." gee you're not a con artist or anything

regardless of your views on trade... that is just a dumb statement.

also the article says economists plural and it's all one guy

edit: this happened to come from a left wing site it could just as easily appeared in the Wall Street Journal

[LilCerberus]

I just hope the GOP learns a lesson from all this when it is done.

And that lesson should be, that the people are sick of the RINOs, that the people are sick of leaders who are willing to apologize for their antiquated beliefs because they don't want to be called a bunch of derogatory names by the "ENLIGHTENED" set, and we are just plain sick and tired of "GENTLEMEN" who sit back & do nothing when their words are taken grossly out of context and played over & over until they become some sort of junior high school catch phrase as though it's some lost episode of Beavis & Butthead.

We need people who are going to stand up for themselves, and their voters, even if it does mean wrestling with the pigs.

[Skull]

I just hope the GOP learns a lesson from all this when it is done.

And that lesson should be, that the people are sick of the RINOs, that the people are sick of leaders who are willing to apologize for their antiquated beliefs because they don't want to be called a bunch of derogatory names by the "ENLIGHTENED" set, and we are just plain sick and tired of "GENTLEMEN" who sit back & do nothing when their words are taken grossly out of context and played over & over until they become some sort of junior high school catch phrase as though it's some lost episode of Beavis & Butthead.

We need people who are going to stand up for themselves, and their voters, even if it does mean wrestling with the pigs.

Don't waste your time with Indy, he has honor and a damn mirror. Hillary wins and he owns it. Pride is bulls**t when we elect a criminal to the white house.

[indianasmith]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Hillary wins in a landslide, it will be the fault of EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTER who thought you could take an obnoxious moron whom 72% of the American people despise and somehow win the White House with him as your standard bearer.

You can paint a turd with gold and cover it with sugar sprinkles and it is still a TURD.

Trump supporters are to blame for every single horrible liberal second of the upcoming Hillary Clinton presidency.

[Skull]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Hillary wins in a landslide, it will be the fault of EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTER who thought you could take an obnoxious moron whom 72% of the American people despise and somehow win the White House with him as your standard bearer.

You can paint a turd with gold and cover it with sugar sprinkles and it is still a TURD.

Trump supporters are to blame for every single horrible liberal second of the upcoming Hillary Clinton presidency.

No if Hillary wins it's because of the Never Trumpers! I'm so sorry but nobody drives in the middle of the god damn road. You are in one side or the other side of the road. Hillary or Trump is going to be president! There is no Micky Mouse, no Cthulhu, no 3rd god damn party winner. It's Trump or Hillary.

If you don't like Trump then vote for Hillary. If you don't Hillary vote for Trump. I won't be upset if you voted for Hillary (I know you owned it).

Sorry but you cannot say you hate both and not own consequences. I've talked about this and all I got is you have honor and a god damn Mirror. I'm sorry but that don't mean s**t if Hillary wins. Unless you want Hillary to win.

Please Indy, I've asked you a million times... what is the worst that Trump will do? What is this Turd compared to somebody that made Watergate look like child-play.

What you don't get it don't matter who the Republicans pick they all will look like Turds. Even Reagan was viewed as a Turd; and that is historical fact. Republicans had been looking like Turds way way before FDR was president.


Liberals are going to vote for Hillary. I cannot make sense of Liberals because they have a warped view of the Constitution and American Politics. But Indy I don't see you as a Liberal, I see you as a Never Trumper... And right now the Never Trumpers seemed to be the worst because they all want to walk in the middle of the god damn road. And instead of helping to fix the problem they are causing a bigger problem. Trump seemed to answer everything that a Conservative wants but you never Trumpers see him as a Turd.  Life sucks, I've started voting since 1988 and every republican from 1988 to 2012 I'd voted for I held my nose. Even though I hate Jeb Bush I would vote for that Idiot too. Sure my vote is soiled, but when I look in the mirror every night and I know I tried.

[indianasmith]

The worst thing Trump can do??

WORLD WAR 3.  The man has no self-control, a hot temper, and a thin skin.  He can't take criticism from an opposition journalist without going on a 2 AM Twitter rant; what's he going to do if China's PM snubs him at a diplomatic summit?

Hillary Clinton will bequeath us a damaged country; Trump could well leave us a nuclear ravaged world!

And - yes, he says everything a conservative wants to hear.  Doesn't that strike you as just a bit ODD from a man who never espoused a single conservative position until this election year?  HE'S LYING.  He does it all the time, it's documented.  He flips policy positions, denies things today that he said yesterday, he throws out whatever he thinks his cheering mobs want to hear.  I don't even think HE knows what he really thinks.

And if you compare Trump to Reagan one more time I think I will barf!

[Skull]

The worst thing Trump can do??

WORLD WAR 3.  The man has no self-control, a hot temper, and a thin skin.  He can't take criticism from an opposition journalist without going on a 2 AM Twitter rant; what's he going to do if China's PM snubs him at a diplomatic summit?

Any proof? I heard a lot of world war 3 BS when Reagan was running for president and that didn't happen. When Goldwater was running for president there was WW3 fear.

Hillary Clinton will bequeath us a damaged country; Trump could well leave us a nuclear ravaged world!

We do have more evidence that Hillary will start World War 3, because she supports the Iran Nuke Deal. Iran is going to nuke the Jews. I don't even know why anybody agreed to this Iran Nuke Deal.  Also, when Hillary was Secretary of State she sold 1/5 of the American Uranium to Russia.

Yet you want to believe that Trump will start WW3...

And - yes, he says everything a conservative wants to hear.  Doesn't that strike you as just a bit ODD from a man who never espoused a single conservative position until this election year?  HE'S LYING.  He does it all the time, it's documented.  He flips policy positions, denies things today that he said yesterday, he throws out whatever he thinks his cheering mobs want to hear.  I don't even think HE knows what he really thinks.

The only thing that strikes me a bit odd is how you 'never trumpers' think. His policy positions had not changed, he wants to build a wall, he wants to create term limits, he wants to do something with NAFTA (good or bad is debatable), he wants to make sure Hillary face criminal actions, and he wants to nominate a Constitutional Judge.

If anything... the Judge should be an eye opener for the Never Trumper... That's what I find odd. So you are throwing away a Constitutional Judge for a Hillary pick...  

And if you compare Trump to Reagan one more time I think I will barf!

Maybe you should listen to the old News reports on Reagan Presidential election - yes it mirrors Trump's Election. It's hard to believe but Reagan wasn't supposed to win in 1980.


Reagan wasn't perfect president. He made 2 major mistakes.

1, Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.

2, George H. W. Bush was his Vice President  



Be honest... you want Hillary for president because you feel comfy with what's going on and your afraid of real change. I could understand that. Change is scary.

[lester1/2jr]

We do have more evidence that Hillary will start World War 3, because she supports the Iran Nuke Deal.

the Iran nuke deal was a peace deal. it lifted sanctions deterring us from the path that led to the disasterous Iraq war, which btw Hillary supported and trump opposed.

Iran is going to nuke the Jews.

you know there are thousands of Jews that live in Iran right?

NONE of israel's neighbors like it that's just the way it is. To the people in the region it's a western colony. That will never ever change. and it's israel's right to defend itself. THEIR right, not ours. (Why any sane person would want to live in the middle east is beyond me but they can have at it if they think theres a way it will work out. )

more the point: Iran is not going to launch a nuclear missile attack against the US. No one thinks they will and they'd be destroyed before they even thought of it, so us being at war or on a path to war with them makes no sense.

Also, when Hillary was Secretary of State she sold 1/5 of the American Uranium to Russia.

good the cold war is over we should have good relations with Russia. rather the contrary, it's Hillary who is tryign to stop them from backing Assad who is fighting ISIS. The state dept and CIA are blatantly supporting al queda affiliated fighters in Syria it's a total betrayal. These are the people who commited 9/11 and other atrocities against the US.

Trump has said repeatedly he wants good relations with russia and has decried the wars of past administrations. He's the peace candidate. "America First" that says it all

Reagan wasn't perfect president. He made 2 major mistakes.

Reagan himself felt his biggest mistake was sending US marines to Lebanon and i would tend to agree

[Skull]

We do have more evidence that Hillary will start World War 3, because she supports the Iran Nuke Deal.

the Iran nuke deal was a peace deal.

Anybody telling that is lying.

Fact, Iran has no nukes.

Fact, the Iran nuke deal is a pathway for Iran to have a Nuke.

There is nothing peaceful about it.

On 19 July 2015, while speaking at a mosque in Tehran, Khamenei said to his supporters that the policies of the United States in the region were "180 degrees" opposed to Iran's political and religious movement. The speech was punctuated by chants of "Death to America" and "Death to Israel". Khamenei said in regards to the 2015 nuclear deal that "Even after this deal our policy towards the arrogant U.S. will not change."

On 10 September 2015, in a speech about Israel after agreement on the nuclear program of Iran, Khamenei made a remark "Israel will not exist in 25 years".

Yep and we are giving them a pathway for a nuke...

[lester1/2jr]

Fact, Iran has no nukes.

Fact, the Iran nuke deal is a pathway for Iran to have a Nuke.

they would have a nuclear program regardless of whether we have oversight of it or not

Khamenei made a remark "Israel will not exist in 25 years".

again, it's Israels right to defend itself if they feel threatened by this. They have no right to be liked by their neighbors.

Israel was created in 1948 by driving out the people who lived there, much like our country was created by driving out/ displacing the Indians. Unfortunately  for them they are surrounded by a billion "Indians". I'm not supporting or opposing them I'm simply stating their situation. People in Jordan, Saudi arabia, Iraq and elsewhere feel exactly the same way read any poll, talk to any Muslim person.

Iran and Syria are terrible countries but they are not a threat to the United States, at least not to the extent that ISIS and Al Queda are. not even close. neither was Saddam Hussein.

When you hear of a terrorist attack in Europe or even here in the US do you think iran? of course not you think ISIS.

[Jim H]

it lifted sanctions deterring us from the path that led to the disasterous Iraq war, which btw Hillary supported and trump opposed.

Trump's recorded statements on it before the invasion are wishy-washy at best, mildly supportive at worst.  He wasn't in a position of political power though, so I actually don't hold this against him personally.  He said at one point he'd be for it (on Howard Stern), then at other times was more reticent.  The only vocal opposition or criticism anyone can quote is from over a year after the invasion.

It looks to me like Hillary was going with the political tide on it, and that was foolish. 

Any proof? I heard a lot of world war 3 BS when Reagan was running for president and that didn't happen. When Goldwater was running for president there was WW3 fear.

Trump said he'd use military action against the Iranian military for gestures. 

"When Iran, when they circle our beautiful destroyers with their little boats, and they make gestures at our people that they shouldn't be allowed to make, they will be shot out of the water,"

The full context if it matters
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/09/trump_if_iran_harasses_us_ships_they_will_be_shot_out_of_the_water.html

I realize this wouldn't literally start World War 3 alone...  But a person who'd even talk about doing such an action while running for head-of-state is someone I could never trust in any position with any sort of military capability, let alone essentially unilateral nuclear capability.  It's an instant disqualification.

The best excuse I hear is he was talking in the context of repeated posturing by the Iranian military (though I recall they literally made rude gestures at US ships, I believe that's what he is actually referring to), or he was just rallying his base, or some such BS.  I don't care.  It doesn't matter. 

[lester1/2jr]

The only vocal opposition or criticism anyone can quote is from over a year after the invasion.

thats pretty early though. It was still pretty taboo to be anti war at that time. hard to imagine now

I wouldn't bet the farm on him being a principled opponent of the Iraq war before the war, but the point is Hillary while less "think skinned" is probably more actually likely to get us involved in a conflict.

Her handiwork in libya speaks for itself. that place is a total disaster run by people who want to destroy our country and the entire human race as far as anyone can tell. Was it worth it to get rid of momar gaddafi, a ridiculous defanged dictator/ relic from the bygone arab nationalist era?




I get Indiana's point that Trump is unhinged though he obviously is.

[Skull]

again, it's Israels right to defend itself if they feel threatened by this. They have no right to be liked by their neighbors.

Yeah, that makes sense... you have a gang leader for a neighbor, the police gives him a gun... and if you feel threaten by the gang leader you must do something.


This threat will never happen if Iran is not getting a path to a nuke.  Sorry but I don't trust a religion that has followers that are willing to blow themselves up for 72 virgins.


@laster1/2jr - at least I do hear both sides of the coin coming from you :)


@JimH - Sometimes you need to take a stand. I don't see anything wrong with Trump's comment.

[Skull]

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