GOD

[HappyGilmore]

Carlin, I grew up with, saw him on HBO as a young kid.  Shaped my ways of thinking.

[Jim H]

Ok-I aint an atheist-Carlin is my Jesus.
Yea-though I walk through the valley of morons,I will not be afraid-because-well-I'm dealing with morons.

Yer alright RC. 

[indianasmith]

OK, Jim, I get your point.  But I will say this:  Buddha, Muhammad, Joseph Smith, David Koresh, and every other religious leader in the history of the world save one - STAYED DEAD when they died.

Mine didn't.

That's why I believe.

[ER]

"There's no Atheist who's beheaded someone, on camera, while shouting "All praise to NOTHING."  



Perhaps not, but in the Soviet Union millions were persecuted, jailed, killed, for the cause of atheism. Churches, mosques, temples, were destroyed, believers tormented, tortured. I think given sufficient numbers and a chance to be in authority, atheists are as capable as anyone of being tyrants who kill for their beliefs. Some of the rudest and most closed-minded people I've known have been atheists. And some of the most selfish.

There is a tribalism in humankind that brings with it an us and them mentality, a need to bring others into the fold or else subjugate them, and no group has a monopoly on that intolerance. If people would live and let live and adopt the golden rule, this world would go a long way toward becoming paradise.

[RCMerchant]

"There's no Atheist who's beheaded someone, on camera, while shouting "All praise to NOTHING."  



Perhaps not, but in the Soviet Union millions were persecuted, jailed, killed, for the cause of atheism. Churches, mosques, temples, were destroyed, believers tormented, tortured. I think given sufficient numbers and a chance to be in authority, atheists are as capable as anyone of being tyrants who kill for their beliefs. Some of the rudest and most closed-minded people I've known have been atheists. And some of the most selfish.

There is a tribalism in humankind that brings with it an us and them mentality, a need to bring others into the fold or else subjugate them, and no group has a monopoly on that intolerance. If people would live and let live and adopt the golden rule, this world would go a long way toward becoming paradise.

I don't think that was in the name of atheism,I think it was more in the name of Stalinism. Stalin didn't want the Catholic church to influence the masses-not so much as he really was an atheist. He was a maniac.
As for the golden rule-thats a nice platitude-but it will never happen with relegious fanatics trying to force their "golden rules" on every one else. It just aint never gonna happen.Religion is the major cause of most wars-thats a fact-not a theory.History has proven it time and again.Everyone living under one Golden Rule is a nice fantasy,though-and thats it-a fantasy.

As far as atheists being rude and close minded-well-that can apply with anyone with a belief system. It's not the belief-it's the person. Me sweetie Tiana believes in God-and I don't try to shove my beliefs down her throat-or her's down mine. And we love each other.

[RCMerchant]

It's a nice idea to think when you have no one to turn to-when life just seems to be collapsing around you-that their is someone on your side upstairs.
Praying to God-I think-is just a way of looking into yourself to find the strength to push on. Isn't in the Bible somewhere-that to find God-look into your heart? I think thats what it means. We ALL have God in ourselves-and that is YOU. YOU make the choice-not God-it says that in the Bible-I know that much. We are the masters of our own Destiny. The Bible is a great book-it's teachings have just been distorted. God is not a real being-it's YOU.

[ER]

"Me sweetie Tiana believes in God-and I don't try to shove my beliefs down her throat-or her's down mine. And we love each other."

In other words you two are living by the Golden Rule, eh, RC? ;-)

[indianasmith]

"Beloved, love one another, for he who loves is born of God, and knows God."  - I John

[RCMerchant]

"Me sweetie Tiana believes in God-and I don't try to shove my beliefs down her throat-or her's down mine. And we love each other."

In other words you two are living by the Golden Rule, eh, RC? ;-)

Yes! I think the Golden Rule is a GOOD THING-I'm not trying to say it isn't-but if you try to force it on others-you broke the rule.And there are always others who will try to "tempt" you-I don't need a "god" to know that thats just common decentsy. Decentsy-Decentsy-wtf? How-DESENTCY? Dagnabbit!

[ER]

Y'all ever see that Rowan Atkinson special where he played the devil greeting new arrivals in Hell, and he had them line up according to what sent them there, and when he got to the atheists he looked up from his chart and goes, "Well, you lot must be feeling like a right bunch of nitwits about now...."

[Jim H]

Y'all ever see that Rowan Atkinson special where he played the devil greeting new arrivals in Hell, and he had them line up according to what sent them there, and when he got to the atheists he looked up from his chart and goes, "Well, you lot must be feeling like a right bunch of nitwits about now...."

I hadn't, good stuff.

Sucks for the Christians too, heh.  Don't Jews not believe in hell? All good though.

Everyone is an atheist from a certain perspective, just a matter of precisely how many gods you don't believe in. Monotheists are far more atheistic than polytheists.   

http://livescripts.blogspot.com/2011/10/rowan-atkinson-as-devil.html?m=1

[indianasmith]

We prefer to think of ourselves as more discriminating in our theistic tastes! 

[ER]

"Don't Jews not believe in hell?"

Correct. There may be some but I don't think any I've ever met believe in Hell, no, but there isn't a lot of cohesion in Jewish thought. Some Jews believe that death is simply death, no afterlife. This includes most Chasidic sects, a lot of Orthodox. Some Jews seem to find reason to think the Messiah will usher in a sort of eternal Eden on this planet, in which the dead return to life, and the living never die. I once went to a Reform wedding in which this philosophy was mentioned in the rabbi's homily.

Many, being practical sorts as most Jews tend to be, will simply say, "We don't know, but we trust in G-d." There is probably a certain wisdom in that last view. All in all it's likely if you go to to a temple and ask twenty Jews the same question you'll get variations in the twenty answers.

I think there's a case to be made the the Christian concept of Hell, particularly Hell as a place of fire, began with Jesus. For humanists this is another black mark on Jesus, that he'd speak of an idea that has caused so much misery and worry across time. For believers it is something to keep in mind. If the man who came back from the dead said Hell is real, it doesn't do to lose sight of that.

Many years ago my cousin told me something scary. She almost (or more or less almost) died from substance abuse and said to me later that she had a feeling as she was losing consciousness of regretting wasting her life, and feeling a terrified certainty that she was going to have to spend "forever" in that state of endless miserable regret, and it was so sad that as she was passing out/away she screamed out to Jesus over and over in her mind.

When she told me that I was about fifteen and vocally anti-religious even though I went to Catholic school, and agnostical at best, and her words didn't inspire me to repent or go to confession, but they were chilling because she said that to me one on one and was utterly sincere and scared.

But my thought in bringing that up is, wouldn't it be terrible to go on and on after death stuck in the sadness of your own self-created misery? Maybe Hell has nothing to do with religion. Maybe it's just....there. A condition entered into sometimes at death. I still remember her words like it was yesterday. Creepy.

[ER]

Also while it's certainly possible that all religions are equally false, it impossible that all religions are equally true. That is contrary to the simplest logic, and downright stupid.

For most of my life I felt a warring impulse to believe people were soul-less biological beings who were born and died, were reduced to our atoms (thinking this made me feel sophisticated), and our consciousness was lost, yet I also was moved to believe we lived many lives and there was some ultimate justice in our circumstances, whether we perceived it or not. I was comfortable thinking that and spent a lot of time contemplating a universe that worked that way, lifetime balancing lifetime, rebirth coming after death. I found some pathetic comfort in thinking maybe some of the pains I had in life had some reason behind them and weren't the result of random events colliding with other random events. Maybe, I thought, there was some sort of sane karma behind loving someone so completely and losing him so pointlessly, or my brothers dying when I was a child, or various things that came to pass in my own life, which, not to be self-pitying, has had its moments of sorrow and agony. (Not that I'd choose to be anyone else and I have much to be grateful for.)

Then oddly, even that solace went away, and I thought, wow, it's true, nothing has meaning, there is no plan to life, the dead are just gone, accidents are just accidents, chains of circumstances, there is no one at the helm, we are helpless and vulnerable and all too brief. Why not do whatever you want, since nothing matters? And what's odd is....for the longest time, especially when I was at my most grieving about sixteen years ago, I felt some peace in that. If nothing mattered then...nothing mattered.

That is how I felt for a long, long time.

Now, I have to tell you, if you can possibly believe otherwise, even if it turns out you're self-deluded and wrong and we all go to dust, and God is nothing but an imaginary friend, it makes for a more pleasant life to think that one day just maybe you'll meet your loved-ones again, and all the pains of this existence won't matter, everything will be okay. If you can possibly find a way to feel like that, you're doing yourself a favor.

Shrug. I know there's a lot that can be said against all this in counter-argument, but it's helped me.

Just laying my soul bare here.

[HappyGilmore]

Feeling that we'll get to see our long-lost loved ones gives us a good feeling, I'll agree with that, ER.

Can I say I believe that? No.  But it's weird.  I also believe in ghosts and the paranormal.  And religious folk write that off.  "No such thing as ghosts."  But, growing up Catholic, I've been taught of purgatory and 'spirits' stuck in a loop until they make it through...ghosts, essentially, roaming the earth, but that's another argument entirely.