The All-Purpose Political Thread

[indianasmith]

Within the bounds of the  Constitution - a document, I might add, largely written by Christians.

Ben franklin and Thomas Jefferson were not Christians.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Thomas_Jefferson

https://www.quora.com/What-were-Ben-Franklins-views-on-religion-and-Christianity-in-particular

The founders also never mentioned any god in the consitituion.

Thomas Jefferson played NO part in the Constitutional Convention, but you are right, he was NOT a Christian - a Deist, and one who had a tremendous regard for Jesus as the "greatest natural philosopher who ever lived."

Franklin is a bit more complicated.  He was a Deist in his youth who drifted back towards more traditional views in his old age - hence his words at the Convention: "I have lived a long time, and the longer I live, the more sure I am of this - that God governs in the affairs of men."

The Founders created a government that was religiously neutral on purpose, but if you read the Federalist Papers - written by three men who helped create the Constitution and were its staunchest defenders - they quoted one work above all others in defending the Constitution. It wasn't Locke, it wasn't Montesquieu, and it wasn't Rousseau.  It was the King James Bible.  Regardless of their individual beliefs, they were the products of an overwhelmingly Protestant Christian society, and their worldview was shaped by that.

I can do this all day.

[Svengoolie 3]

Yep, and they specifically forbade ANY religious test or qualification for government office.

Franklin 'drifted' back towards his earlier beliefs in his declining days as many do.

[indianasmith]

Oh, believe me, I remind way too many of my online friends about the "religious test" clause regularly.
Some of them would like to see Muslims barred from voting or holding office in America.

[Svengoolie 3]

Oh, believe me, I remind way too many of my online friends about the "religious test" clause regularly.
Some of them would like to see Muslims barred from voting or holding office in America.

Yeah, ever tell them there are people who feel the same way about them for the same reasons?

I do regard christianity as the lesser of two evils in religious terms, if that comforts you. Not because of differences in the religions themselves, but as i said in a post some time ago, western civillization decided religion had to be subordinate to law and government. In the mid east laws and govrnments are subservient to religion.

Interestingly enough israel in a country where one religion is the majority, but also does not allow a religion to dominate the culture. BTW I support israel wholeheartedly, not because of the religion itself, but as a bastion of civilization and liberty in a sea of theocracies.

Here's a little pic I made once to express my views.



I'll stand alongside most christians against any effort to impose islamic culture on america, you can bet on that.

[Svengoolie 3]

[indianasmith]

The map on the right would be more convincing if it actually LOOKED like the USA instead of a Rorschach blotch.

[Svengoolie 3]

It removes the massive areas of very sparsely populated areas and just has populations in proportion to actual figures.

[lester1/2jr]

yes israel allows women to enjoy stealing land and putting the entire western world in danger from angry terrorist repraisals. thats true equality

and of course all muslim women live in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia where they dress like that

[indianasmith]

Tell you what, Lester - give your land back to the Indians and then you can whine about Israel!

The fact is, the Jewish presence in Palestine - or Judea, to give it its proper and much older name - goes back 3200 years, VERIFIED by archeology.
There is ONE historical homeland for the Jewish people in the whole world, and that is ISRAEL.
Not only that, Palestinians living in Israel have more civil and legal rights than Palestinians living in Saudi Arabia or any of the region's other corrupt dictatorships and theocracies.  Palestinians work throughout Israel; they serve in the Knesset (Israeli parliament), and they can vote and freely practice their faith.  Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that extends unconditional freedom of worship to Jews, Muslims, and Christians - and tolerates atheists as well.  The Jews have taken that desert land and made it blossom like the rose, while the Palestinians lived there for almost a millennia and did little to nothing to improve or develop it.

[lester1/2jr]

indiana- it was majority arab for 18 centuries before zionism.  http://aldeilis.net/english/the-founding-of-jerusalem/

many peoples have lived there. in the bible the Jews come from Mesopotamia and meet King melchizedek the King of the canaanites who were there first. Even when it was Judea and Samaria there were other peoples living there who were never defeated and who didn't become one with the Jews.

"  Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that extends unconditional freedom of worship to Jews, Muslims, and Christians - and tolerates atheists as well.  The Jews have taken that desert land and made it blossom like the rose," therefore its okay for them to steal peoples land? If i make a wonderful pluralistic society can I take over poland?

the analogy with the Indians is apt. We fought the Indians for the land and won. if they wanted to fight us again we'd have to fight them again. no one begrudges them for wanting to hold on to what was theirs.

at any rate, its an ancient blood feud on the other side of the world that shouldn't concern us.

[RCMerchant]

Kill 'em all! Let Godzilla sort 'em out!

[Svengoolie 3]

Tell you what, Lester - give your land back to the Indians and then you can whine about Israel!

The fact is, the Jewish presence in Palestine - or Judea, to give it its proper and much older name - goes back 3200 years, VERIFIED by archeology.
There is ONE historical homeland for the Jewish people in the whole world, and that is ISRAEL.
Not only that, Palestinians living in Israel have more civil and legal rights than Palestinians living in Saudi Arabia or any of the region's other corrupt dictatorships and theocracies.  Palestinians work throughout Israel; they serve in the Knesset (Israeli parliament), and they can vote and freely practice their faith.  Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that extends unconditional freedom of worship to Jews, Muslims, and Christians - and tolerates atheists as well.  The Jews have taken that desert land and made it blossom like the rose, while the Palestinians lived there for almost a millennia and did little to nothing to improve or develop it.

Damn, Indy. For once we agree completely!

As to the palistinians, pardon me while I take a few warm up swings with my anti islam bat.....


Whoosh!

Whoosh!

Whoosh!


Any wealthy well to do muslim state could solve the problem of the palistinians by offer them sanctuary and hospitality in it, but the fact is no muslim country wants the palistinians or will offer them refuge despite the Koran's clear and unaltered mandate that it is the holy obligation and duty of muslims to offer aid and sanctuary to their fellow muslims.

The fact is prosperous islamofascist countries (I'm glaring at you, saudi arabia.) refuse to take in palistinians despite what the koran says. Sure, jihad, oppression, treating women like slaves, torture, beheadings, etc, are all ok because good ol' allah says so, but showing hospitality and aid to their fellow muslims, the palistinians, NOPE!

The fact is prosperous muslims don't really want poor refugees around, and the more cynical and calculating ones (the saudis) want them to suffer in Palestine to incite hate against israel, who the fear and hate both because of "jews" and bcause it is a democratic open civilized state in a sea of islamofascism.

Also, as modern america proves, give people someone to hate and you can treat them as bad as you want, they'll stay focused on who you're pointed them at to hate.

[lester1/2jr]

the Arab presence in the region dates to well before Islam. Its not Islam its nationalism.

The Christians in Palestine ( formerly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistia)

http://youtu.be/8knx4zpgwhQ tend to feel similarly

[lester1/2jr]

whats a more interminable debate abortion or Israel/ Palestine. maybe agreeing to disagree is the right approach on such things

[indianasmith]

Honestly, that's never a bad option  . . . it's just not as much fun!!