100 American Heroes

[Rev. Powell]

53. Red Cloud


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cloud


Chief of the Ogala Lakota Sioux.

A lot like Geronimo: a hero, but not in my mind an American hero. He waged war against the USA. I'd say he was an American victim.

[RCMerchant]

^ He was born in America- he died in America. He was an American.
People born overseas count? But not American Indians? 

[bob]

57 Edgar Allan Poe

58 Hank Aaron who passed this morning 

the real home run king as far I'm concerned

[Rev. Powell]

^ He was born in America- he died in America. He was an American.
People born overseas count? But not American Indians? 

You can put him on if you want. He is a hero. I just don't think Indians who fought wars against the US government to maintain their independence from America would be happy to be celebrated as Americans, if you could ask them.

[RCMerchant]

^ They made treatys with America. They wanted to be treated like Americans. The powers that were stopped them.  They signed papers that ended up being not worth the paper they were written on.They were willing to join with America- if they would be treated like citizens, not like animals.
If former slaves- who fought against their oppressors can be considered heros- so should people who fought for their land- in America- be considered American heros.
They were American. They were heros.

[pacman000]

59) Stephen Foster



Pic from: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stephen_Foster.jpg

I remembered last night some of his songs are still taught to kids, so he might still have an influence on culture.

[Rev. Powell]

^ They made treatys with America. They wanted to be treated like Americans. The powers that were stopped them.  They signed papers that ended up being not worth the paper they were written on.They were willing to join with America- if they would be treated like citizens, not like animals.
If former slaves- who fought against their oppressors can be considered heros- so should people who fought for their land- in America- be considered American heros.
They were American. They were heros.

It's all good.  I think you could call them American heroes because modern Americans can look up to them.

[ER]

60. Eleanor Roosevelt
61. Dolley Madison
62. Eliza Hamilton
63. Shirley Jackson

[Allhallowsday]

64. HANK AARON

[ER]

65. John Glenn
66. Simon Kenton
67. Quannah Parker
68. John Wayne
69. Jonas Salk

[RCMerchant]

68. John Wayne

I would question that one-

A quote from the Duke in a 1971 Playboy interview-

"With a lot of blacks, there's quite a bit of resentment along with their dissent, and possibly rightfully so. But we can't all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks. I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. ... I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from the Indians. Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."

[ER]

68. John Wayne

I would question that one-

A quote from the Duke in a 1971 Playboy interview-

"With a lot of blacks, there's quite a bit of resentment along with their dissent, and possibly rightfully so. But we can't all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks. I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. ... I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from the Indians. Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."

Yeah, but words are just words. Ever read about Red Cloud's atrocities to other tribes?

Read his bio The Heart of Everything That Is. Red Cloud loathed outsiders and only made alliances out of necessity. He was a slaver and he carried out tortures on red, white, black, yellow, with savage glee. He loved war.

[RCMerchant]

^ I don't know who wrote that book, but it sounds like BS.
"Words are just words".

A little history-

Red Cloud became an important leader of the Lakota as they transitioned from the freedom of the plains to the confinement of the reservation system. His trip to Washington, DC had convinced him of the number and power of European Americans, and he believed the Oglala had to seek peace.

He visited (not for the first time) the palaeontologist and geologist Othniel C. Marsh in New Haven, Connecticut in around 1880. Marsh had first visited the Red Cloud Agency in 1874, alleging, among other things, that "the Indians suffered for want of food and other supplies because they were cheated out of annuities and beef cattle and were issued inedible pork, inferior flour, poor sugar and coffee and rotten tobacco."

In 1884, he and his family, along with five other leaders, converted and were baptized as Catholics by Father Joseph Bushman.

Red Cloud continued fighting for his people, even after being forced onto the reservation. In 1887 Red Cloud opposed the Dawes Act, which broke up communal tribal holdings, and allocated 160-acre plots of land to heads of families on tribal rolls for subsistence farming. The U.S. declared additional communal tribal lands as excess, and sold it to immigrant settlers. In 1889 Red Cloud opposed a treaty to sell more of the Lakota land. Due to his steadfastness and that of Sitting Bull, government agents obtained the necessary signatures for approval through subterfuge, such as using the signatures of children. He negotiated strongly with Indian Agents such as Dr. Valentine McGillycuddy.

Outliving all the other major Lakota leaders of the Indian Wars, Red Cloud died on Pine Ridge Reservation in 1909 at the age of 87, and was buried there in the cemetery now bearing his name. In old age, he is quoted as having said, "They made us many promises, more than I can remember. But they kept but one -- They promised to take our land ... and they took it."

I've read many books on the Lakota Sioux- Red Cloud tried to stop the Indian Wars- Crazy Horse was the warrior leader- not Red Cloud.
He was fighting for the survival of his people. Is Truman a villian for dropping on A- bombs on Japan that killed Japanese women and children? Why is he a 'hero' and Red Cloud a villian?

John Wayne was a movie actor. That's it. He's no hero to anyone except armchair yahoos.
f**k John Wayne.

[ER]

Oh, sorry, RC, after you mentioned an actor, Bruce Lee, and a stage performer, Hendrix, I guess I thought listing entertainers was fair game.

As for Red Cloud fighting for the survival of his people, yeah, he was, and I have no problem with you considering him a hero, I put up Quanah Parker, the last Comanche chief, but I think if someone is going to be criticized for his words, then calling someone out for his deeds is fair.

The Sioux were a warrior culture who'd been displacing, enslaving, conquering other tribes long before whites came on the stage, and people tend to begin their history only about the time the US expanded westward.

The cold fact is the Sioux were warriors who met their match when facing stronger warriors: the US military.

[RCMerchant]

Oh, sorry, RC, after you mentioned an actor, Bruce Lee, and a stage performer, Hendrix, I guess I thought listing entertainers was fair game.

They didn't spew racism.
Jimi was an artist.
Bruce Lee had a peaceful philosphy, and gave Chinese Americans a hero when most  asians in american popular culture were depicted as Fu Manchu bad guys or played as clowns by white people (like Mickey Rooney in BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S).

Oh yeah- as for warrior culture- then anyone on this list that fought in a war against an enemy is evil.
We- Americans- had slaves, practiced genocide on the native people, invented the KKK- ignore all that.
Red Cloud did not personaly direct anyone to do anything but fight for his people. I'm sure the Indians killed one another for centuries. Red Cloud is not responsible for the actions of others. Just like you or I are not responsible for anything our ancestors did.