New war movie trends

[J.R.]

I just finished watching Windtalkers, pretty good, but it follows some new trends for recent war movies, especially Pearl Harbor and Black Hawk Down (well, that's a "humanitarian aid" movie, isn't it?).  

1. Scots, Brits, Aussies and other assorted peoples playing Americans and not hiding the accents particularly well. In Black Hawk down the majority of the soldiers were Scottish, British or Australian. In Windtalkers the Gunny is even Slavic. And here's an odd thing: Ewen Bremmer, Spud from Trainspotting, who has a thick-as-batter Scottish accent, is in both Pearl Harbor, where his jaw is wired shut, and Black Hawk Down, where he goes deaf, covering his accent.

2. Post-Saving Private Ryan gratuitous gore. Well, I don't mind that one much at all. :-) But it does seem that they're going for one-upmanship.

3. People complaining about racism. It's not really the filmmakers' fault but now PC vultures complain when the bad guys are portrayed as bad guys. Except Nazis. It's okay to depict them as baby-eating demons.

[Squishy]

1. Yes, we all know that everyone in the United States speaks with the exact same Texas drawl. :)  I recommend "U-571," which, although "based on a true story," replaces the British Navy heroes with good ol' Yanks, so you won't find as many offensive accents...
2. Director John Woo has always been...flamboyant with internal fluids. That's probably how he got green-lighted for "Windtalkers" in the first place.
3. ...What, as opposed to the misunderstood knights in shining armor that the genocidal Nazis actually were? There are saints and SOBs on either side of any conflict, and the only movie of late that (I've seen) suggest otherwise has been "Raiders of the Lost Ark."  

J.R.: you're complaining about the cinematic mistreatment of racists and Nazis, and calling those opposed to racism "vultures." Is that how you really feel?

[Chadzilla]

The only thing that troubled me about Windtalkers was the grafting of Nicholas Cage's fictional character and his execute the code carrier before capture orders, which was a blatant movie lie - okay it was created for tension and as a sloppy and overly manipulative way of testing their friendship, but that don't make it a good story choice - into the true events.  I wondered why they just couldn't tell that real story, wasn't that dramatic enough?  Guess not.  Personally I would have seen it if the code carrier had been the focus of the movie (which is the way it should have been done) instead of Cage's fictional one.

[Fearless Freep]

I wondered why they just couldn't tell that real story, wasn't that dramatic enough? Guess not.

I don't think Hollywood has learned what T.V. has.  That 'real life' can often be more dramatic than fiction (and no, I'm not talking about "reality shows", which are pretty contrived and artificial in their own right).  I'm much more moved by seeing a car crash on one of those silly "Police Chase" T.V. shows then I am by anything in  a movie.  In your mind you just know "it's staged", so you can enjoy it on a fictional level, but you don't have a lot of empathy, either.  Knowing that it's 'real' makes a big differences.  I don't think "The Rookie" (Dennis Quaid as a high school baseball coach who gets another chance as a major league pitcher) would have been nearly as good if it wasn't for the fact that you know it's a real story.

If you have a story based on real events, where the drama is the draw, but you ficionalize the drama, it looses it's impact.  Fictional drama is fiction, and people can take the story at that. Real life drame is real, and people can empathize with that.  Fictionalized real life drama rings hollow

[Chadzilla]

Fearless Freep wrote:
>
> Fictionalized real life drama rings
> hollow
>

I sat through the sludge of Casino (what a turkey, I can't believe Scorcese made it, but Joe Bob Briggs was in it, so that was cool) only to read, at the very end, one of the lamest credit disclaimers ever

THE CHARACTERS IN THIS FILM ARE FICTIONAL CREATIONS IN FICTIONAL EVENTS BASED ON A TRUE STORY.

Wha????

[Funk, E.]

I just can't stand Cage. Outside of "Raising Arizona" where he plys an idiot have I ever seen do anything except be Cage on screen. That man does not act. He delivers lines from memory... that's it. Only Keanue Reeves is more "talent-impared"

[Fearless Freep]

"have I ever seen do anything except be [actor's name] on screen"

You can say that about a lot of actors, actually.  Micheal J Fox, for one.

[Funk, E.]

Oh, absolutely, don't get me wrong. TONS of actors seem to get paid for reciting lines, but Cage is also not particularly attractive and he has a dumb expression about him. Now I'm NOT saying he's stupid he just comes across that way on screen.

[Squishy]

If there are any revived war movie cliches I'm already sick of, it's:

(1) Vicious Racist, saved by the sacrifice of the object of his loathing, realizes the error of his ways and starts looking at his feet a lot. Riiiiight.
(2) Two men. One woman. Oh, and the guys are freaking in love with each other, too--but not THAT way. They're just buds. Still, one of 'em's very likely gonna die.
(3) Super-Man screams, jumps up, charges into the battle and single-handedly wipes out entire platoons armed with only a butter knife and his Hero's Battlefield Exemption, which may or may not expire in the movie's last ten minutes--Horrors of War, y'know.

(These all apply just as much to "action movies," but they've been so overused in war movies just recently it seems like I'm seeing the same damn movie over and over again.)

---------------------------------

Homer: "They're embarrassing me! They're embarrassing America! They turned the Navy into a floating joke! They ruined all our best names like Bruce, and Lance, and Julian--and those were the toughest names we had! Now they're just, uh..."
John: "...Queer?"
Homer: "Yeah, and that's another thing! I resent you people using that word. That's OUR word for making fun of YOU! We neeeeeeeeed it!!"

[Deej]

As I understood it, JR wasn't complainig that Nazis and racists are treated unfairly in movies. I believe he was saying that Nazis are the only one of the enemies that the USA has been to war with, that it is deemed acceptable to demonize. Nazis and the English. And while there are good and bad on  both sides during any war, we only see Germans and Englishmen raping and pillaging. That's the PC thing in action. Anyway...that's what I think. Oh yeah..Windtalkers sucked balls!

[Dano]

1.  When I watched Blackhawk Down I thought Blackburn (he fell out of the chopper) was very familiar.  Turns out he was the guy who plays Legolas (also a Commonwealth person, not sure from where).  You forgot to mention the most egregious war movie offender, JR - Enemy at the Gates ("A snoiper dat doesn't change position...  Why dat's bloody strange, eh mate?").  Colin Farrel (Irish) covered the accent well in Hart's War.  As for U-571, good or not (I thought not) any American should be embarassed by that movie for the reasons Squishy implies.  What a disgrace.  I guess Bon Jovi couldn't do Cockney or something.
2.  I think that all started in Schindler's List of all places.  Spielberg (or his technical people) hit on some great techniques to combine sound effects, pyrotechnics, and physical acting to really give a more accurate depiction of the force a bullet delivers when it hits flesh and bone.  Used well again in SPR and subsequent films.  I like it.  I notice it tends to make people more afraid of guns and less excited by them...  which frankly they should be.
3.  Have to disagree, JR.  I'm looking through my list of recent WWII films and am trying to find one set in the European Theater that does not contain at least one and usually several scenes in which Germans (even Nazis!) are depicted as human beings, many of whom would rather be flirting with Hilda in the biergarten than trying to take over the world.  From "Steamboat Willie" in SPR, to the commandant in "Hart's War," to the Germans in "Band of Brothers."  Even Ralph Feinnes' Schindler's List character was more complicated than you suggest.  I also thought the Japanese in Windtalkers and Pearl Harbor were depicted pretty fairly.  And if Spielberg showed US soldiers killing surrendering Germans, he did so only after putting you in their shoes and showing you what kind of hell would make a person do such a thing.  If you read my posts, you know I'm no fan of PC considerations in film making, but I'm really not seeing it in recent war movies.

[J.R.]

Ah, yes-Enemy At The Gates. All the Russians were British and all the Nazis were Americans and they didn't even attempt accents.

And did anyone else notice that Black Hawk Down had Legolas the elf, Obi-Wan Kenobi and The Incredible Hulk in it?

What I meant by the racist slurs is that self-important film critics and columnists said that Black Hawk Down was racist because the enemy was black. First, that   actually happened, and I think they did a good job of showing that the civilians were being starved to death and that the militias working for the warlords were the evil ones. The same charges were brought against Windtalkers.

[Vermin Boy]

Personally, the whole war movie boom is a trend I could do without. I've never been a big fan of war movies anyway-- The majority seem formulaic and manipulative-- and now it seems like every other movie is one. Come on, Hollywood: If you're going to milk every last dollar out of the whole rise in patriotism, can't you at least find more than one way to do it?

I am looking forward to Saving Private Toxie, though. :)

[Conrad]

I didn't like "Windtalkers".  Too big and sloppy; I think Woo is better at smaller-scale films.  In the spirit of Bad Movies, though:
"Things I learned from Windtalkers"
1)  US and Japanese artillery shells are always filled with napalm
2)  US bazooka shells have the same effect as a tactical nuclear weapon
3)  Ferocious Japanese soldiers in company strength will always courteously attack one at a time, two at the most.
4)  Japanese knee mortars can demolish whole buildings with a single shot
5)  Attractive single nurses will go out of their way to help curmudgeonly, sullen, deaf loners

The point made previously about Speilberg realistically simulating people hit by bullets is a moot one; people riddled by MG fire do not tend to grit their teeth, fire up a cigar, wipe off the patch of tomato ketchup and storm the enemy post (see 99% of all war films from 1945 on) - they expire with big holes in them.

Now, just you American rascals wait until we here in the UK make a film about (insert conflict where US was: not involved/beaten/not in existence) and make *you* the baddies!

[Dano]

What I meant by the racist slurs is that self-important film critics and columnists said that Black Hawk Down was racist because the enemy was black. First, that actually happened, and I think they did a good job of showing that the civilians were being starved to death and that the militias working for the warlords were the evil ones. The same charges were brought against Windtalkers.
*****  Oh - you're talking about the loud mouthed whiners and bullies.  They're easily ignored as long as their sniffling doesn't actually cause film makers to change their work.  Someone actually said Blackhawk Down was racist??  Maybe they should have made the militia "neo-Nazis" like in Sum of All Fears.