Jesus, Guns, Babies

[Alex]

Why is it not surprising that hours after I posted this stupid post, that another mass shooting happens.  

Has it become this commonplace?

Normally I'd expect something like this to be the main lead news item. Today I was listening to the news for maybe half an hour before it was mentioned and after a couple of minutes, they'd moved on to something else. I think that by itself says a lot.

[RCMerchant]

There have been 211 mass shootings in the US this year alone.
Most of the nuts who have done these have criminal or mental health records.
Why the f**k is it so difficult for people to understand that's why we need better backround checks?
Nobody wants to take  your guns from you! They want to keep guns out of the hands of psychos!
Some folks say "They wanna take away my gun!" No, Rambo, no one want's to take your gun. Unless you have  a history of being a  criminal or basket case.

[ER]

I don't disagree about efforts to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals (though that opens up a lot of room for debate as to where the line would be drawn that defines who is mentally ill or too criminal to get a gun), and I know a lot of harm has been done with guns bought legally, but the thing is, drugs like marijuana, cocaine, opioids have mostly been illegal in the US for generations, and in reality almost anyone with a little money who wants to get high can go out and find them, so is it a stretch to think some determined person could not find a way to get an illegal gun? Wouldn't a whole new black market for illegal firearms then open up like a market does with every other thing people want that the government makes illegal?

There probably is no one fix for stopping determined would-be mass murderers so unreachable that they are willing to die amid their own violence, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the model for how schools are built and operated needs to change, becoming more like Israel's schools, where, I believe, mass shootings on school grounds do not happen.

It's a shame, this idea of schools becoming forts or medium-security lock-down facilities, it's a grim notion  though it may be the best idea. If it's harder to enter a school, and the school has safety systems in place, metal detectors, lock-down doors sealing off areas, even armed guards, wouldn't that perhaps prevent or at least minimize a shooter's chances of killing as many people? Do schools have shooter drills, like they do fire drills? If not, why not?

As for shootings in other places, offices, theaters, the sidewalks....I don't know.

How do you spot people likely to go on a deadly rampage? Some who have done it have been obvious with their online rants and manifestos, and others are the classic loner who quietly keeps to himself.

Everyone grieves when these tragedies happen, everyone wants a solution, but no one seems to come up with working fixes. Maybe like our ancestors "lived" with seasonal cholera epidemics, our version of an environmental hazard is these recurring atrocities carried out with guns. Sick idea but sadly it seems where we are right now; we speak of outrage after the fact and go on with our lives and it happens over and over.

And over.

If more people were armed, would that make us safer from sudden spree killers, or less safe in general? Maybe we need to think hard about possible solutions that lie outside our comfort zones. I know where I live I see A LOT of people carrying guns, now openly, not even concealed, and now with even less training required, and it still chills me to think I am among all these dubiously-qualified people armed with deadly weapons. (And I say that as someone who could absolutely be considered "trained" with firearms.) I can't say I have actually seen more shootings because of this proliferation of armed civilians though.

One thing I think everyone agrees on is that too many guns are in the hands of the wrong people. What's the answer, and how is that answer put into effect?

[LilCerberus]

What's known so far.....
https://www.theblaze.com/news/frightening-details-emerge-texas-school-shooter?utm_source=theblaze-7DayTrendingTest&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Afternoon%20Auto%20Trending%207%20Day%20Engaged%202022-05-25&utm_term=ACTIVE%20LIST%20-%207%20Day%20Engagement

[Alex]

I don't disagree about efforts to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals (though that opens up a lot of room for debate as to where the line would be drawn that defines who is mentally ill or too criminal to get a gun), and I know a lot of harm has been done with guns bought legally, but the thing is, drugs like marijuana, cocaine, opioids have mostly been illegal in the US for generations, and in reality almost anyone with a little money who wants to get high can go out and find them, so is it a stretch to think some determined person could not find a way to get an illegal gun? Wouldn't a whole new black market for illegal firearms then open up like a market does with every other thing people want that the government makes illegal?

There probably is no one fix for stopping determined would-be mass murderers so unreachable that they are willing to die amid their own violence, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the model for how schools are built and operated needs to change, becoming more like Israel's schools, where, I believe, mass shootings on school grounds do not happen.

It's a shame, this idea of schools becoming forts or medium-security lock-down facilities, it's a grim notion  though it may be the best idea. If it's harder to enter a school, and the school has safety systems in place, metal detectors, lock-down doors sealing off areas, even armed guards, wouldn't that perhaps prevent or at least minimize a shooter's chances of killing as many people? Do schools have shooter drills, like they do fire drills? If not, why not?

As for shootings in other places, offices, theaters, the sidewalks....I don't know.

How do you spot people likely to go on a deadly rampage? Some who have done it have been obvious with their online rants and manifestos, and others are the classic loner who quietly keeps to himself.

Everyone grieves when these tragedies happen, everyone wants a solution, but no one seems to come up with working fixes. Maybe like our ancestors "lived" with seasonal cholera epidemics, our version of an environmental hazard is these recurring atrocities carried out with guns. Sick idea but sadly it seems where we are right now; we speak of outrage after the fact and go on with our lives and it happens over and over.

And over.

If more people were armed, would that make us safer from sudden spree killers, or less safe in general? Maybe we need to think hard about possible solutions that lie outside our comfort zones. I know where I live I see A LOT of people carrying guns, now openly, not even concealed, and now with even less training required, and it still chills me to think I am among all these dubiously-qualified people armed with deadly weapons. (And I say that as someone who could absolutely be considered "trained" with firearms.) I can't say I have actually seen more shootings because of this proliferation of armed civilians though.

One thing I think everyone agrees on is that too many guns are in the hands of the wrong people. What's the answer, and how is that answer put into effect?

One of the reasons we've not had any of the gun attacks by Islamic terrorists in the UK, that we've seen in continental Europe is because the people selling the guns are very well aware of the attention that would fall on them should they supply weapons for such an incident. Yes, gun attacks still happen in the UK, but they are much less common and much less severe here. The last big one I can think of, was close on 30 years ago when Thomas Hamilton attacked a school in Dunblane (incidentally, as a tennis fan, I'll mention Andy Murray was a student at the school at the time).

Sorting out your gun issues would be hard, yes. People just have to be willing to do that hard work though. Many times I've heard the excuse that it would just be too difficult to do anything about them. Well, sitting whining never achieved anything and doing nothing certainly won't either. I really hope your entire country is able to find a way forward that stops sacrificing your children, but I am not going to hold my breath.

[Allhallowsday]

I don't disagree about efforts to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals (though that opens up a lot of room for debate as to where the line would be drawn that defines who is mentally ill or too criminal to get a gun), and I know a lot of harm has been done with guns bought legally, but the thing is, drugs like marijuana, cocaine, opioids have mostly been illegal in the US for generations, and in reality almost anyone with a little money who wants to get high can go out and find them, so is it a stretch to think some determined person could not find a way to get an illegal gun? Wouldn't a whole new black market for illegal firearms then open up like a market does with every other thing people want that the government makes illegal?

There probably is no one fix for stopping determined would-be mass murderers so unreachable that they are willing to die amid their own violence, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the model for how schools are built and operated needs to change, becoming more like Israel's schools, where, I believe, mass shootings on school grounds do not happen.

It's a shame, this idea of schools becoming forts or medium-security lock-down facilities, it's a grim notion  though it may be the best idea. If it's harder to enter a school, and the school has safety systems in place, metal detectors, lock-down doors sealing off areas, even armed guards, wouldn't that perhaps prevent or at least minimize a shooter's chances of killing as many people? Do schools have shooter drills, like they do fire drills? If not, why not?

As for shootings in other places, offices, theaters, the sidewalks....I don't know.

How do you spot people likely to go on a deadly rampage? Some who have done it have been obvious with their online rants and manifestos, and others are the classic loner who quietly keeps to himself.

Everyone grieves when these tragedies happen, everyone wants a solution, but no one seems to come up with working fixes. Maybe like our ancestors "lived" with seasonal cholera epidemics, our version of an environmental hazard is these recurring atrocities carried out with guns. Sick idea but sadly it seems where we are right now; we speak of outrage after the fact and go on with our lives and it happens over and over.

And over.

If more people were armed, would that make us safer from sudden spree killers, or less safe in general? Maybe we need to think hard about possible solutions that lie outside our comfort zones. I know where I live I see A LOT of people carrying guns, now openly, not even concealed, and now with even less training required, and it still chills me to think I am among all these dubiously-qualified people armed with deadly weapons. (And I say that as someone who could absolutely be considered "trained" with firearms.) I can't say I have actually seen more shootings because of this proliferation of armed civilians though.

One thing I think everyone agrees on is that too many guns are in the hands of the wrong people. What's the answer, and how is that answer put into effect?

That is mostly Whataboutism.  I agree with only this: "...too many guns..."

[ER]

I don't disagree about efforts to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals (though that opens up a lot of room for debate as to where the line would be drawn that defines who is mentally ill or too criminal to get a gun), and I know a lot of harm has been done with guns bought legally, but the thing is, drugs like marijuana, cocaine, opioids have mostly been illegal in the US for generations, and in reality almost anyone with a little money who wants to get high can go out and find them, so is it a stretch to think some determined person could not find a way to get an illegal gun? Wouldn't a whole new black market for illegal firearms then open up like a market does with every other thing people want that the government makes illegal?

There probably is no one fix for stopping determined would-be mass murderers so unreachable that they are willing to die amid their own violence, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the model for how schools are built and operated needs to change, becoming more like Israel's schools, where, I believe, mass shootings on school grounds do not happen.

It's a shame, this idea of schools becoming forts or medium-security lock-down facilities, it's a grim notion  though it may be the best idea. If it's harder to enter a school, and the school has safety systems in place, metal detectors, lock-down doors sealing off areas, even armed guards, wouldn't that perhaps prevent or at least minimize a shooter's chances of killing as many people? Do schools have shooter drills, like they do fire drills? If not, why not?

As for shootings in other places, offices, theaters, the sidewalks....I don't know.

How do you spot people likely to go on a deadly rampage? Some who have done it have been obvious with their online rants and manifestos, and others are the classic loner who quietly keeps to himself.

Everyone grieves when these tragedies happen, everyone wants a solution, but no one seems to come up with working fixes. Maybe like our ancestors "lived" with seasonal cholera epidemics, our version of an environmental hazard is these recurring atrocities carried out with guns. Sick idea but sadly it seems where we are right now; we speak of outrage after the fact and go on with our lives and it happens over and over.

And over.

If more people were armed, would that make us safer from sudden spree killers, or less safe in general? Maybe we need to think hard about possible solutions that lie outside our comfort zones. I know where I live I see A LOT of people carrying guns, now openly, not even concealed, and now with even less training required, and it still chills me to think I am among all these dubiously-qualified people armed with deadly weapons. (And I say that as someone who could absolutely be considered "trained" with firearms.) I can't say I have actually seen more shootings because of this proliferation of armed civilians though.

One thing I think everyone agrees on is that too many guns are in the hands of the wrong people. What's the answer, and how is that answer put into effect?

That is mostly Whataboutism.  I agree with only this: "...too many guns..."

Do you have a solution to offer, John?

[Rev. Powell]

https://youtu.be/ehikC4iEnBI

[LilCerberus]

^ER, I found your post thoughtful & poignant, even the parts I disagreed with.^

From what I keep hearing from the local authorities, mental illness & drugs are a huge problem....

As a consumer of mental health services, I've watched it change since the 1980s....
Used to be, you'd spend an hour with your psychiatrist, and they'd also handle your meds....
Nowadays, the system is overwhelmed; it's difficult to find a psychiatrist, and all they can do is discuss your meds for fifteen minutes every other month, and a psychiatric councilor is next to impossible to find....

For Beto O'Rourke to say it's insane to talk about mental health is flat out stupid!!!
The industry has developed greater need over the past few decades, yet is increasingly neglected....

As for the problem with drugs, people have offered solutions, you know what they are, but too many people think these solutions are rooted in hatred rather than safety....

[RCMerchant]

I have no solution. I'm not a lawmaker. But when I see our actual lawmakers in commercials ( MTG, Lauren Bobert, Catwhorne) playing with guns it makes me sick. That's your selling point? WTF is wrong with you? You want to ban abortion- but not certain firearms? You scream biblical BS, yet still advocate f**king guns? They're all full of s**t.

[Allhallowsday]

Do you have a solution to offer, John?

Yes.  Disarm yourself.  Disavow the firearm.  Otherwise, put a cork in it.

[indianasmith]

Certain people HAVE to carry firearms, AHD.

[Allhallowsday]

Certain people HAVE to carry firearms, AHD.

I do love you.  Shut up. 

[ER]

Do you have a solution to offer, John?

Yes.  Disarm yourself.  Disavow the firearm.  Otherwise, put a cork in it.

So if I "disarm" and "disavow the firearm" shooting murders will end? Deal!  

Spoiler, i think the problem is a little bigger than that.

[Allhallowsday]

Certain people HAVE to carry firearms, AHD.

I do love you.  Shut up. 

Guns were designed to kill.  Now I am stating the obvious as you had.  Any discussion that was taking place was between ER and myself.  Wading in stating a reality check is "rude".  You have a double standard.  You have a double standard about suffering.  You have a double standard about Christianity.  That does not change the deep respect I have for you, a good man, though you can be self-righteous.