The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!

[ER]

Ralfy, if I sent you some money to go out and have a few beers with a nice girl, see the Santa goes on a rampage flick, you know,  in other words had a sweet evening that had nothing to do with links to academic fodder and obscure citations, d'ya think telling everyone they're wrong might seem less pressing to you, mate?

Ever seen that bit in The Onion where famous historical figures are interviewed and their replies have nothing to do with the questions asked? This is all kinda starting to remind me of that.

Netflix and chill, bro, Netflix and chill.

[ralfy]

I'm a Bill Maher Democrat as I make plain, and Bill recently rounded on people who criticize America for having slavery in it's past with 'You know who else had slaves in the past? EVERYONE!''

Yes we have skeletons in out closet,  and on the record I believe we were wrong to invade Iraq after 911. But we've also lead much of the world in advancing human rights. We treated our enemies humanely after WW2. We sent aid to people in need. We pioneered preciscion weapons to minimize mass civil casualties in military actions.

No we're not perfect but we are trying to advance, sadly we have those who want to drag us back but we're opposibg and resisting them .

So yes I'm supporting indy here.

Back on topic...

Poots seems to have forgotten many vital military Maxims. One is that anateurs think tactics, experts think      logistics. Russia's logistics have sucked all their this war, partly due to poorly maintained trucks, partly due to loooted supplies being sold on the black market by corrppt oligarchs running the military.

Also Russia's economy really sucks too, see this:   https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAMz5kgb7V4&t=966s

Heres one that looks at Russia's future economic issues. Not hopeful.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAMz5kgb7V4&t=966s

Bill Maher. Good grief. You might as well choose his opponents and give the same points.

The problem isn't tactics, as it's common knowledge that not only Russia but even China and the rest of the military powers do not have the spending power of the U.S., so they will do badly in any mass attack. Only the U.S. has the funds to do that, and even then it will engage in "shock and awe" tactics. That's why early on in this thread, I referred to one ex-General interviewed by Fox (I think) who argued that if that were the U.S., the war would have ended on Day One, as they would have bombed Ukraine back to the stone age.

The problem is blowback driven by realpolitik, and that's explained ironically by your own point: the U.S. was wrong in attacking Iraq. Reasons have been given in this thread before, but what's not explained are the real reasons why the U.S. invaded Iraq.

Once you start trying to figure that out, then you'll see the origins of the invasion of Ukraine.

[ralfy]

The Military Industrial complex appreciates you guys' support. war is peace, freedom is slavery

I was going to say, "Service guarantees citizenship!"

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and then realized that there's no mandatory service in the states. That makes that scene from Lions for Lambs even more compelling:

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That is, service guarantees realization.

[ralfy]

Ralfy, if I sent you some money to go out and have a few beers with a nice girl, see the Santa goes on a rampage flick, you know,  in other words had a sweet evening that had nothing to do with links to academic fodder and obscure citations, d'ya think telling everyone they're wrong might seem less pressing to you, mate?

Ever seen that bit in The Onion where famous historical figures are interviewed and their replies have nothing to do with the questions asked? This is all kinda starting to remind me of that.

Netflix and chill, bro, Netflix and chill.

I did that last night.

The Onion sounds passe. How about the Babylon Bee?

https://babylonbee.com/news/10-ways-to-help-the-struggling-people-of-ukraine

[ralfy]

I feel safe in saying no one here wants to commit U.S. troops to Ukraine.

If someone argues that Ukraine is not our business and we should not send them one cent in aid, I disagree, but acknowledge that's a rational position.

The only position I strongly object to is the idea that Russia is strategically and morally justified in its invasion, and it's primarily the fault of the West/US/NATO that Putin ordered Russian troops (who are victims too, it's important to remember) to cross the border and start killing foreign nationals. If no one here has that position, I have no strong disagreement.

I get this feeling that what's stopping the U.S. from sending in troops is also what's stopping Russia from going beyond areas in Ukraine dominated by Russians.

Also, I think what should be considered isn't whether or not the Russian invasion is justified but how to stop the war. I referred to one interview with Sachs; what do you think of his points?

Finally, one reason why this invasion took place is because the West ignored Kennan's advice not to allow for NATO expansion. Similarly, U.S. military expansion globally may be leading to the same:

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One has to be incredibly blinkered to think that this invasion is taking place in a vacuum.

[ER]

Babylon Bee's a little to the right for you, isn't it?

And post a review of the Santa movie, why doncha. It interests me.

[ralfy]

You know what's bizarrely endearing about you, ralfy, albeit weirder than vanilla spaghetti? No matter what's said to you you don't get mad, you just go forth like Commander Data with your citations in reply. I bet I could call you mother horrid names comparing her mating practices to a rabbit and you'd calmly reply with posted links redeeming her virtue. You're an odd duck, but kinda likable in a cod liver oil way.

Data only gives citations. I prefer characters like Picard, who make arguments based on the same citations.

As for mom and mating practices of rabbits:

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[ralfy]

Babylon Bee's a little to the right for you, isn't it?

And post a review of the Santa movie, why doncha. It interests me.

Where did you get the idea that I'm leftwing?

[ER]

And The Onion is classic. Maybe the most morbidly funny thing I ever read came from The Onion's 20th century wrap-up back around the turn of the century when in the same supposed issue from 1918 that described the horrific toll of World War One, was a human interest piece about Archduke Ferdinand coming back after faking his death so he could get away from the stress of royal duties and take a vacation.

Any paper that can come up with something that sick will never go out of style.  

[ER]

Oh, sorry, I meant libertarian to the point right wraps back around to meet  left and tangos with a selfish, selfless passion of self-certainty.

[ralfy]

"How the West Brought War to Ukraine"

https://medium.com/@benjamin.abelow/western-policies-caused-the-ukraine-crisis-and-now-risk-nuclear-war-1e402a67f44e

Interestingly enough, from a medical doctor who received an undergrad degree in history from UPenn, and worked on nuclear arms policies in Washington, DC before pursuing medicine.

He later published the essay as an 88-page book, but it can be read for free in the link above.

A quote from the essay:

In this essay, I argue that the Western narrative is incorrect. In crucial respects, it is the opposite of truth. The underlying cause of the war lies not in an unbridled expansionism of Mr. Putin, or in paranoid delusions of military planners in the Kremlin, but in a 30-year history of Western provocations, directed at Russia, that began during the dissolution of the Soviet Union and continued to the start of the war. These provocations placed Russia in an untenable situation, for which war seemed, to Mr. Putin and his military staff, the only workable solution. In arguing this case, I pay special attention to the United States — and subject it to particularly sharp criticism — because it has played the decisive role in shaping Western policy.

In criticizing the West, it is not my aim to justify Moscow's invasion or exonerate Russia's leaders. I have no brief for Mr. Putin. Notwithstanding all I will say, I believe he had alternatives to war. But I do want to understand him — in the sense of seeking to rationally assess the causal sequence that led him to launch the war.

[ER]

Been fun. Bathtime's over and I'm getting pruny. Must scoot. Everyone have fun and play nice. B-movie Kraken out.

[lester1/2jr]

ER -

Can you name a country, past or present, where the rich didn't hold power, where the wealth was not concentrated near the seat of power? THAT is your great reveal on America's deficiencies?

No I can't. the state has been oppressing man since it's beginning. that's why I don't align myself with it or it's interests. Iran, russia and China have been around for thousands of years. the world is round, not flat.

America First!

[Morpheus, the unwoke.]

Well it took long enough but Ukraine finally his Russia where it lives, hundreds of miles from the border on Russia's side.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KV7_0D_mbww

Two Russian air bases, well inside Russia,were hit with Ukrainian drones.Damage abd casualties were minir but it was a hit inside Russia on their soil.

Big embarrassment to pooty and the Russian military.

[ralfy]

ER -

Can you name a country, past or present, where the rich didn't hold power, where the wealth was not concentrated near the seat of power? THAT is your great reveal on America's deficiencies?

No I can't. the state has been oppressing man since it's beginning. that's why I don't align myself with it or it's interests. Iran, russia and China have been around for thousands of years. the world is round, not flat.

America First!

I think the "deficiency" of the U.S. isn't that it's no better than other countries but that it thinks it's better. In short, American exceptionalism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

What makes that point important is that that "seat of power" involves what is essentially the largest military in the world and heavy dependence on the dollar to trade.

Which ironically brings us back to the first point I raised in this thread.