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Other Topics => Off Topic Discussion => Topic started by: indianasmith on February 23, 2022, 11:16:30 PM



Title: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on February 23, 2022, 11:16:30 PM
Putin appears to be launching a full-on military invasion of Ukraine.
I had truly hoped he was bluffing!   This could really be the beginning of World War 3 . . .

And our former President is praising Putin for it!
If anyone ever doubted what a despicable traitor Donald Trump is, here's the proof - our ally is under attack, and he's praising the dictator launching the attack!
Just . . . awful.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on February 23, 2022, 11:43:36 PM
Awful.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 23, 2022, 11:54:39 PM
what did trump say?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: JuanSnz on February 24, 2022, 12:31:25 AM
Great. Just great. I'm only hoped that Alberto Fernandez (President of Argentina, my country) for one time in his life don't say anything, don't think anything, because each time he speaks, or he contrary himself, or for worst, said what you really want to hear. Even if those words are antagonist between them.

I mean, the guy could tell to Ukrainians "We, Argentina, supports you, we believe in Freedom, in Justice, in Democracy, in Equality, and we don't want that any country in the World be invaded for anyone, specially for those Great Power Nations that along the History of Humankind were and still they are abusing disadvantaged countries". And, at the same time, he could twit "Vlad, you are doing well".

What a jerk.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 24, 2022, 01:02:16 AM
what did trump say?



For the most part, he said he wanted to French kiss Putin. Or toss his salad.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 24, 2022, 01:05:59 AM
Myself- I could give a rat's ass about the Ukraine- they're almost as bad as Russia.
But yeah- Putin's pushing his luck too far. He may end up biting his own ass.
What Russia is doing is similar to what Germany did with Poland in 1939. Hitler claimed Poland attacked at the border to Germany (they didn't), so he blitzed them.
Yeah, this could go bad.  :bluesad:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 24, 2022, 02:12:17 AM
I wouldn't worry too much at the moment about the war spreading. The world has known this was going to happen for months (if not longer). If any of our countries were going to get involved, we'd already have troops on the ground over there. We'll give material support, put sanctions in place that won't change much. Of more consequence for us directly will be the effect on food prices as well as natural gas. I'd imagine there are a lot of people in Europe who will be facing a very expensive or cold winter.

Unless Russia starts doing something the rest of the world can't ignore then I think Putin will get away with this one sadly.

My sympathies lie with the Ukrainian people. I hope they are able to defend their country successfully.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: bob on February 24, 2022, 08:14:52 AM
Trump continues to be a national embarrassment and water is wet


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on February 24, 2022, 09:11:59 AM
I have friends in Ukraine.  :bluesad:

I don't have much context for this picture she posted. Caption says it's Kiev.

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274698453_5054404891295594_8814952404148346504_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=Ymp6hYt-YsQAX9DZn4A&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8TqNS54VLPBwIBTbGsAhRNkFrhUZU5tvsBZW_PRYYPDg&oe=621CC428)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 24, 2022, 12:32:51 PM
I have friends in Ukraine.  :bluesad:

I don't have much context for this picture she posted. Caption says it's Kiev.

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274698453_5054404891295594_8814952404148346504_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=Ymp6hYt-YsQAX9DZn4A&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8TqNS54VLPBwIBTbGsAhRNkFrhUZU5tvsBZW_PRYYPDg&oe=621CC428)

I hope your friend is able to stay safe.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 24, 2022, 02:07:32 PM
Yeh-missiles are flying now on 3 fronts.  :bluesad:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 24, 2022, 02:22:06 PM
We knew something like this was gonna happen if they kept expanding NATO.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 24, 2022, 03:35:40 PM
Don't forget Putin has been pulling the same s**t with Georgia* which is nowhere near NATO territory. He has said several times he wants to rebuild the USSR. This was going to happen regardless.

* Not to forget Moldavia and Chechnya as well.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on February 24, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Don't forget Putin has been pulling the same s**t with Georgia which is nowhere near NATO territory. He has said several times he wants to rebuild the USSR. This was going to happen regardless.

Agreed.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 24, 2022, 03:57:27 PM
Quote
He has said several times he wants to rebuild the USSR.

that is neither here nor there. the direct cause of this conflagration is Ukraine possibly entering into NATO and the US setting up shop on russia's border. both sides have addressed this issue numerous times in the days and weeks preceding this



Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 24, 2022, 04:02:34 PM
Oh it is very much here or there. NATO is just a convenient excuse and if he didn't have that, he'd have found another one, just like he did for the countries he has invaded that were nowhere near NATO expansion.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 24, 2022, 04:04:52 PM
and why was it a "convenient excuse"? why was it convenient and good to use as an excuse? because it was real and happening and tangible, unlike the idea that he was going to somehow bring back the Soviet Union


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on February 24, 2022, 04:12:39 PM
[ the direct cause of this conflagration is Ukraine possibly entering into NATO and the US setting up shop on russia's border.


Ukraine has been begging to join NATO for years, for obvious reasons. Ukraine wanted to join NATO so Russia would not invade, Russia wanted to invade Ukraine so it would not join NATO. Chicken and the egg.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 24, 2022, 04:29:33 PM
Ok, let's put this in simple terms.

Putin wants all the old territory the Soviet Union controlled. In order to sell this to the Russian people he has been using NATO as a bogeyman and claiming its expansion is in order to threaten the Russian Federation (ignoring that most NATO members have seriously slashed their defence budgets since the end of the Cold War and would lack the manpower and equipment required to seriously take part in a war against it). If he didn't have this he'd have to come up with something different. Usual ways of achieving this include false flag terrorist operations, but there are other ways. Since he does have the NATO expansion though, he doesn't need to do that. Hence it is a convenient excuse for him. Ukraine has said it would like to join NATO, but NATO has never said it can. The closest has been that it (NATO) has said it (Ukraine) isn't ready to join.

He wants to retake all the territory that the Soviet Union controlled. To achieve this he has launched military operations in several of them (as mentioned previously, in countries that are nowhere near NATO countries, have not expressed an interest in joining).

Ever put some thought into why these countries want to join NATO? To get protection from exactly the stuff Putin is doing. He might claim that NATO getting closer to Russia is a threat to them, but there are areas that have been attacked and invaded many times by Russia over the centuries. Maybe if they didn't they would have more friendly countries on their borders.

He is trying to dictate to other nations what their foreign policy should be. I wonder how you'd feel if another country was telling yours what it could and couldn't do.

Let's not forget, NATO was put together in the first place as a defensive alliance (and still is) as a counter to Soviet aggression. Its members come to each other's aid if one is attacked. There is nothing in there about coming together to launch a war. The reason so many eastern European countries joined Hitler's war against the U.S.S.R. is because it had been terrorising its neighbours and stealing territory off them. What is happening now is just a repeat of what they have been doing for a very long time whether it is the Russian Empire, USSR or Russian Federation.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: WingedSerpent on February 24, 2022, 06:13:27 PM
I don't know how many people I've told this, but I've always had a sneaking suspicion I'd be alive for the apocalypse.  Of all the things I've gotten wrong in my life, why did this happen to be the one it looks like I got right.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 24, 2022, 06:18:37 PM
I don't know how many people I've told this, but I've always had a sneaking suspicion I'd be alive for the apocalypse.  Of all the things I've gotten wrong in my life, why did this happen to be the one it looks like I got right.
Agreed


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on February 24, 2022, 06:19:42 PM
Quote
He has said several times he wants to rebuild the USSR.

that is neither here nor there. the direct cause of this conflagration is Ukraine possibly entering into NATO and the US setting up shop on russia's border. both sides have addressed this issue numerous times in the days and weeks preceding this

You are mistaken.  It is totally THERE.  NATO is his pretext and the assumption that the "western allies" were hollow.  NATO gets in the way of pootin  rebuilding the "evil empire".  


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 24, 2022, 06:25:33 PM
Yeah I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 24, 2022, 06:37:45 PM
Why it happened does not seem to be the most important issue at the moment.
They have foot soldiers on the ground; bombs are dropping.
I'm worried where this will lead. A lot of countries are p**sed. When will Putin commit some massacre that draws NATO into a foot war? I am not optimistic.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on February 24, 2022, 07:52:51 PM
Ya gotta understand, Lester will never acknowledge America is right when it comes to foreign policy.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on February 24, 2022, 07:56:10 PM
Ironically, if Putin successfully annexes Ukraine he will have a massive border with NATO.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on February 24, 2022, 10:24:12 PM
POOtin is working off of a 20th century playbook.  It's a disaster that can only worsen.  God help the people on the ground. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on February 24, 2022, 10:42:02 PM
Yeah I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Yeh, that POOtin is a "peacemaker".  Piece of sh!t maker. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 24, 2022, 10:50:45 PM
I would suggest people read Putins speech if you get the chance

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/full-transcript-vladimir-putin-s-televised-address-to-russia-on-ukraine-feb-24 (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/full-transcript-vladimir-putin-s-televised-address-to-russia-on-ukraine-feb-24)

It's mostly about Russia's relationship with NATO. He lays it all out there

Quote
President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Citizens of Russia, friends,

I consider it necessary today to speak again about the tragic events in Donbass and the key aspects of ensuring the security of Russia.

I will begin with what I said in my address on February 21, 2022. I spoke about our biggest concerns and worries, and about the fundamental threats which irresponsible Western politicians created for Russia consistently, rudely and unceremoniously from year to year. I am referring to the eastward expansion of NATO, which is moving its military infrastructure ever closer to the Russian border.

It is a fact that over the past 30 years we have been patiently trying to come to an agreement with the leading NATO countries regarding the principles of equal and indivisible security in Europe. In response to our proposals, we invariably faced either cynical deception and lies or attempts at pressure and blackmail, while the North Atlantic alliance continued to expand despite our protests and concerns. Its military machine is moving and, as I said, is approaching our very border.

.... [later]

Despite all that, in December 2021, we made yet another attempt to reach agreement with the United States and its allies on the principles of European security and NATO’s non-expansion. Our efforts were in vain. The United States has not changed its position. It does not believe it necessary to agree with Russia on a matter that is critical for us. The United States is pursuing its own objectives,

indianasmith - I liked when both Biden and Trump killed ISIS leaders.



that said let me add one thing: the whole talking point of "this didn't happen under Trump" is stupid. If Trump were president he would have launched a missile at Moscow and we'd be in a world of hurt. That guy was ignorant about how the world works and also nuts.






Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on February 24, 2022, 10:54:05 PM
Well, we agree on Trump, too, then! LOL

I saw some moron on FB had a Bat-signal modified with Trump's profile shining in the sky, with the caption: "The Whole World Right Now!"

And I thought, how clueless can these people get? Trump was the MOST unpopular American leader abroad in decades.  He was a laughing stock, but they seem to think he's Jesus, Batman, and John Wayne all rolled into one.

It's a freaking cult.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 24, 2022, 11:15:21 PM
Well, China made all sorts of moves in Hong kong (RIP) while he was POTUS. He bombed General Soleimani and Iran responded by... not changing anything about their strategy re Iraq and also ramping up their nuclear efforts.

China Russia and Iran are ancient countries who have stuck around for a reason. Trump and Biden are blips on their radar.


best case scenario now would be if Russia agreed to pull back in return of a guarentee that Ukraine not be admitted into NATO. Can Biden and his shifty sec state Blinken pull that off? I doubt it but not impossible


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 24, 2022, 11:18:32 PM
Trump didn't have the United states dependent on Russian oil.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 24, 2022, 11:22:27 PM
Think Biden'll Wag The Dog for Burisma?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on February 24, 2022, 11:44:19 PM
Well, China made all sorts of moves in Hong kong (RIP) while he was POTUS. He bombed General Suleiman and Iran responded by... not changing anything about their strategy re Iraq and also ramping up their nuclear efforts.

China Russia and Iran are ancient countries who have stuck around for a reason. Trump and Biden are blips on their radar.


best case scenario now would be if Russia agreed to pull back in return of a guarentee that Ukraine not be admitted into NATO. Can Biden and his shifty sec state Blinken pull that off? I doubt it but not impossible

Unfortunately Iran did a lot in response to the killing of Soleimani. Much more than made the 6:30 news.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 25, 2022, 12:01:44 AM
Borrowed from another site.

Make no mistake- The US imposing financial sanctions on Russia while at the same time continuing to purchasing millions in oil from Russia makes the sanctions nothing more than a publicity stunt and that action by the US is dumber than anything Russia is currently doing.  The US is funding the murder of Ukrainians tonight.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 25, 2022, 12:51:15 AM
 ^Yeah, I've seen some of the webpages you site. Hoo boy, break out the tin foil.  :lookingup:

Russia is bombing the Ukraine. People are dying.

Yet here you talk mumbo jumbo s**t about the US. What a patriot!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 25, 2022, 01:16:54 AM
Trump didn't have the United states dependent on Russian oil.

The US is not dependent on Russian oil whatsoever. 7% was imported from Russia. 30% from Canada. Most of our oil comes from right here.

And you got balls to even mention Trump's name in connection with Russia, with his recent appalling comments.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 25, 2022, 01:31:15 AM
Whats also sad about this mess is many Russian citizens want nothing to do with the war. Protesters are hitting the streets in Moscow, St.Petersburg, and other cities.  :bluesad:

I'd like to see Putin riding shirtless leading the charge!
f**king war pig.  :hatred:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Newt on February 25, 2022, 08:07:46 AM
POOtin is working off of a 20th century playbook.  It's a disaster that can only worsen.  God help the people on the ground. 

This.  Anyone else having Cold War flashbacks?  It is very odd to me that this seems to be such a blind spot for so many.

Putin wants his Empire back and he regards NATO as an empire in competition with him.

I don't think there is any question about his sanity.  He's NQR in his psyche.  That is the scariest part.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 25, 2022, 08:57:16 AM
POOtin is working off of a 20th century playbook.  It's a disaster that can only worsen.  God help the people on the ground. 

This.  Anyone else having Cold War flashbacks?  It is very odd to me that this seems to be such a blind spot for so many.

Putin wants his Empire back and he regards NATO as an empire in competition with him.

I don't think there is any question about his sanity.  He's NQR in his psyche.  That is the scariest part.

Unfortunately, he is a cold war relic and is stuck with that mindset. Ex-KGB who worked with the Stasi (by all accounts a wonderfully lovely bunch of people) in East Germany. I'd mentioned to Kristi last night that I thought this crap was all over with back in '92.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on February 25, 2022, 09:00:14 AM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274536042_4814272691982266_1761028264762167471_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Gi_q3Cog3pIAX_2YFKi&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_2m9T-kWxRrGk76RU0Wv4SRA0nII5tEYlrmXJmhKtsCw&oe=621DA405)

A picture from my friend's facebook feed. I don't know the context as the translated caption doesn't make sense to me: "Kiev. Kirílívsʹka (former Frunze) under the bridge exit on Olena Telíg. The enemy of the drg broke through in the center, but got tickets for the cabzon concert. Glory to Ukraine!!!"

I fear one day soon she will not post and I won't know whether she's still alive or just without Internet.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on February 25, 2022, 09:09:35 AM
Borrowed from another site.

Make no mistake- The US imposing financial sanctions on Russia while at the same time continuing to purchasing millions in oil from Russia makes the sanctions nothing more than a publicity stunt and that action by the US is dumber than anything Russia is currently doing.  The US is funding the murder of Ukrainians tonight.

Insane as this sounds, it's true, Russian oil is still flowing, and it is funding Putin's horror show.

I am encouraged by the number of Russians protesting what Putin is doing.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 25, 2022, 12:53:24 PM
Trump didn't have the United states dependent on Russian oil.

The US is not dependent on Russian oil whatsoever. 7% was imported from Russia. 30% from Canada. Most of our oil comes from right here.

And you got balls to even mention Trump's name in connection with Russia, with his recent appalling comments.

Most of our oil came from "here" during the Trump Administration.
Biden shut down domestic production for green stuff that doesn't work, green stuff that is heavily dependent on polymers from oil.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 25, 2022, 02:48:09 PM
Trump certainly bent over backwards for Saudi Arabia, who are worse than Putin and are doing a ukraine invasion to their neighbor Yemen on a daily basis


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on February 25, 2022, 05:01:15 PM
Trump certainly bent over backwards for Saudi Arabia, who are worse than Putin and are doing a ukraine invasion to their neighbor Yemen on a daily basis
You are right, a long standing stain on America. 

Speaking anecdotally, we Northeast Americans are much more closely involved with Europe as a culture.  I spent 10 years living among Ukrainians and their Orthodox churches in Manville, NJ.  My oldest friend is Ukrainian and her family are getting updates from family still there.  Families in subways seeking shelter from missiles... Any war exposes pigs.  War pigs. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on February 25, 2022, 10:26:14 PM
Trump didn't have the United states dependent on Russian oil.

The US is not dependent on Russian oil whatsoever. 7% was imported from Russia. 30% from Canada. Most of our oil comes from right here.

And you got balls to even mention Trump's name in connection with Russia, with his recent appalling comments.

Most of our oil came from "here" during the Trump Administration.
Biden shut down domestic production for green stuff that doesn't work, green stuff that is heavily dependent on polymers from oil.
[/quote/]

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD - Biden did not "shut down domestic production"!! What a crock.
U.S. production has actually INCREASED in the last year.  What he did was place a moratorium on any new drilling permits on PUBLIC land.
80% of all U.S. oil drilling is on private land, and all the promising locations on public lands got drilling permits YEARS ago.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 25, 2022, 11:01:09 PM
^Isn't a moratorium the same thing?^ ^Besides, he doubled all the fees that US companies pay.^
And he's on record BEGGING OPEC to increase production.

Biden is also on record saying Russia would face minor consequences for a minor incursion..........

From the very beginning, creepy joe has made it clear to the world that he has no backbone, and he's made it clear to the american people that he's never had their best interest in mind


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: JuanSnz on February 25, 2022, 11:31:37 PM
It's sad that literally we could see on a screen how a country is invaded in real time, and the only thing that we could, is acting like a color commentator on a game: saying the obvious.

Here, in Argentina, in the Capital City, C.A.B.A (Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires), El Obelisco is painted with the Ukrainian colors.

The irony, is that the official Government's statement, which didn't come from Alberto Fernandez's lips, but from a spokesman (well, spokeswoman) about the conflict, was so soft, so indifferent, just a 'we feel sorrow for what happens in Ukraine' and there is not a single word about who is the invader, and for what reason is the invasion.

It feels like the statement could be used for past or future invasion, just changing 'Ukraine' for the name of the invaded country and if it is convenient add the name of the invader.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 25, 2022, 11:56:43 PM
I keep hearing small bits of encouragement, such as this Ukraine jet fighter that that the Russians can't keep up with, or how they passed out free guns & the people used them, setting the Russians back a bit...

But it's still sad.
It seems nobody wanted this but Putin.
Even the Russian people didn't want it....

I hope Biden doesn't get us involved, just keep trying more sanctions.....


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 26, 2022, 10:30:46 AM
It seems that the Russian invasion is not going as well as they had planned and the basic day one objectives have not been met. Good for the Ukrainians. I did like their president's alleged reply to an offer to evacuate him (I don't need evacuation, I need anti-tank shells).

Russia has issued a threat to Finland after in response to Russia's illegal invasion of the Ukraine, their Prime Minister has suggested they will apply for full NATO membership before the next election and some reports suggest Russia is massing troops on Poland's border. One UK minister has already said that if one Russian soldiers boot sets foot on NATO soil then it is war.

For the moment I suspect everyone will stick to sanctions which are a good way of pretending you are doing something, while not really doing anything. China has already lowered its trade restrictions with Russia to counter the already quite weak western sanctions. Maybe if Russia is prevented from accessing SWIFT, it might do something to hurt them, but it still won't change their course.

I wonder at what point people will really stand up against a tyrant?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on February 26, 2022, 11:02:13 AM
Russian warship, go f**k yourself.

https://youtu.be/6Y2iVHUMZhg

And hey, my friend's still alive as of 6 minutes ago!

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274300256_3766048820200687_3681968855288612100_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ZhQHWHbv4S8AX-Y6fAZ&_nc_oc=AQm0KiU-EuoWk6kZWCaXta0zmEX987-kkaKFXCDrYeVBDbti1NM5ui-l1Jjk6W7xvmc&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_N2RCnwXHD0BKF1v90YV49tUKbaFerlnBb68tTdGnUCg&oe=621ECA92)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: JuanSnz on February 26, 2022, 11:07:14 AM
Well, Russian people have a lot of reasons to kick him, especially the Women Rights movements, and the LGBT+ communities, but mostly of the opposition's leaders, are in jail.

Finland is the other country that has a past with Russia. There is a infamous moment when Molotov said, during the Winter War, that the Soviets are not bombing Finland, they are just dropping food for the people  :lookingup:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Newt on February 26, 2022, 12:02:14 PM
For the moment I suspect everyone will stick to sanctions which are a good way of pretending you are doing something, while not really doing anything.

I wish I could shake the feeling that Ukraine is being sacrificed on some sort of political altar.  Putin simply does not play by the same rules as the rest of the world seems to expect.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 26, 2022, 12:10:25 PM
For the moment I suspect everyone will stick to sanctions which are a good way of pretending you are doing something, while not really doing anything.

I wish I could shake the feeling that Ukraine is being sacrificed on some sort of political altar.  Putin simply does not play by the same rules as the rest of the world seems to expect.

So far he is just pulling the same kind of crap guys like Hitler and Stalin did. He will continue until someone stands up to him. Let's just hope they do it before it is too late. You'd think people would learn from history but apparently not.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 26, 2022, 03:15:16 PM
^ History? Who reads anymore if it's not in a tweet?  :question:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on February 26, 2022, 04:36:33 PM
For the moment I suspect everyone will stick to sanctions which are a good way of pretending you are doing something, while not really doing anything.

I wish I could shake the feeling that Ukraine is being sacrificed on some sort of political altar.  Putin simply does not play by the same rules as the rest of the world seems to expect.

So far he is just pulling the same kind of crap guys like Hitler and Stalin did. He will continue until someone stands up to him. Let's just hope they do it before it is too late. You'd think people would learn from history but apparently not.

The problem with putting boots on the ground is it's a short slide from there to nuclear war. That would be game over for all of us!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on February 26, 2022, 04:42:31 PM
What is another word for bed-pan? 

Poo-tin.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 26, 2022, 04:49:33 PM
Trump was giving The Ukraine weapons, now ALL of their neighbors are supplying weapons....

That's what we should be doing, like when Reagan gave weapons to Afghanistan when The Soviets invaded...


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 26, 2022, 05:01:32 PM
^ well, considering recent history, we might have been better off with a communist Afghanistan being paid for and administered by Russia


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/us/politics/ukraine-europe-refugees.html?referringSource=articleShare (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/us/politics/ukraine-europe-refugees.html?referringSource=articleShare)  


Quote
"For Ukraine’s Refugees, Europe Opens Doors That Were Shut to Others

Thousands of Ukrainians will end up in countries led by nationalist governments that have been reluctant to welcome refugees in the past."

lets demonize people taking in refugees. nice angle!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 26, 2022, 05:23:41 PM
^ well, considering recent history, we might have been better off with a communist Afghanistan being paid for and administered by Russia


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/us/politics/ukraine-europe-refugees.html?referringSource=articleShare (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/us/politics/ukraine-europe-refugees.html?referringSource=articleShare) 


Quote
"For Ukraine’s Refugees, Europe Opens Doors That Were Shut to Others

Thousands of Ukrainians will end up in countries led by nationalist governments that have been reluctant to welcome refugees in the past."

lets demonize people taking in refugees. nice angle!

I can't read this article.
It says I need a subscription.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 26, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
^ It's a free sub.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 26, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
^ It's a free sub.

The link at the top of the page says it's $1 a week....
If the online ads aren't making them enough, it's certainly not worth jumping through the hoops of getting a paid sub, no matter how cheap.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 27, 2022, 12:12:09 AM
Why could I read it?



I had a passenger from Bosnia tonight. Older gay guy. He hated Putin but said he was going to win.

Basically, Russia has two loyal areas in Ukraine. Putin is going to destabilize Ukraine then go back to those areas and wait. He can then threaten to lob missiles at them until they agree to not join NATO.

It's an ugly situation but no one is going to risk ww3 over Ukraine, which itself is barely a democracy.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on February 27, 2022, 09:54:29 AM
Nata's still alive today.

These aren't her pictures. I gather they're from the approach to Kyiv.

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274824141_4623501837749554_3574083942763326042_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=AFSsEGrJ7zQAX89cMlz&tn=eoYOeHuy1nZBQ0xA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9sh6-ctvVIPlGzi5dlIBtN9JFNdKzkdF4JGY3mejXTSQ&oe=6220361E)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 27, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Vlad, the feral ferret eyed dictator of Russia, has put a nuclear threat in the mix.
Hey, he's surrounded by NATO. Who have many more nukes then him. It would be suicide. But with nut jobs like this guy, you never know. Hitler, Stalin, Mao- they didn't care who died. It could happen.  :bluesad:
I don't think it will, though. The whole world (except China and Donald Trump) is against him.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 27, 2022, 02:56:58 PM


It's an ugly situation but no one is going to risk ww3 over Ukraine

 WWI and WWII  happened over many the same reasons.
Chamberlin said after meeting with Hitler- "it's peace in our time." Then Hitler blitzed Poland. I don't underestimate scumbags like this.
It's odd that dictators in Africa can get away with this s**t every day-but when it involves white nations- then we give a f**k. I hate every politician in this world.  :hatred:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 27, 2022, 03:26:17 PM
I don't think WW2 is a good analogy here. It's essentially the last dust up of the cold war, as a now relatively powerless Russia asserts itself as best it can against total domination by the victorious West.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on February 27, 2022, 08:50:55 PM
Vlad, the feral ferret eyed dictator of Russia, has put a nuclear threat in the mix.
Hey, he's surrounded by NATO. Who have many more nukes then him. It would be suicide. But with nut jobs like this guy, you never know. Hitler, Stalin, Mao- they didn't care who died. It could happen.  :bluesad:
I don't think it will, though. The whole world (except China and Donald Trump) is against him.
What's another word for bed-pan? 
Poo-tin.   :bluesad:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 27, 2022, 08:53:55 PM
I don't think WW2 is a good analogy here. It's essentially the last dust up of the cold war, as a now relatively powerless Russia asserts itself as best it can against total domination by the victorious West.

Except this war is not 'cold'.
It's hotter than hell in the Ukraine right now.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on February 27, 2022, 09:11:51 PM
^what I keep thinking about, was just how cautious both bushes were with deploying ground troops following long, drawn out air strikes....^

It's looking like he thought this was going to be a cake walk, but it wasn't....
I keep getting conflicting stories about how well/poorly the Russian advance is going, with right wing nooz outlets reporting Ukrainian successes on the battlefield, while left wing nooz keeps reporting how close the Russians are to Kyiv.....

I don't think Putin was expecting the backlash back home either, & it's stating to sound like he's threatening a BIG temper tantrum.....


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on February 27, 2022, 10:28:12 PM
Putin has always been very calculating and deliberate, and this sudden, rash action with such potential for disaster makes me wonder if there's something wrong with him.  Like maybe he's found out he has cancer and has decided to stake it all on one roll of the dice?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 27, 2022, 10:50:29 PM
 ^ Indy- monsters like Putin don't need a reason to be evil.
If he thinks he's f**ked, he'll go full Götterdämmerung.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on February 27, 2022, 11:27:52 PM
My hope is there will be a peace deal and also that I will buy the ruble at the lows beforehand


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on February 27, 2022, 11:41:12 PM
My hope is there will be a peace deal and also that I will buy the ruble at the lows beforehand

You can hope in one hand and sh!t in the other.
Usually end up with a handful of sh!t.
I know I'm being a real Debbie Downer, but I got a bad gut feeling on this.  :bluesad:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 28, 2022, 02:15:50 AM
Mad Vlad is making noises about using nuclear weapons and has his nuclear strike force on high alert. If he does that, all bets are off.

Peace talks are taking place but I don't have high hopes for them. Russia's assault seems to have faltered so they might not have the grounds to get their demands met. Kristi is sorting out donations of supplies to be sent to Ukraine and I am going to see if I can take a day off work to help deliver them. If a peace deal is signed I suspect it will not be long before a second war and even before then I'd expect Russia to commit more forces to the fight.

EDIT: Sweden has abandoned its long policy of neutrality and is sending 5000 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on February 28, 2022, 07:30:52 AM
I saw an article saying that Pornhub has gotten into the sanctions, too - any user from Russia who tries to visit their site is redirected to a YouTube video of the Ukrainian national anthem.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on February 28, 2022, 09:01:36 AM
Nata's still alive and posting. She bought groceries and flowers yesterday. Somehow, life in Kyiv goes on, impossible to imagine how.  :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 28, 2022, 09:54:19 AM
An article on how Putin's invasion has managed to kick start a whole bunch of things he's been trying to avoid.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/vladimir-putin-has-achieved-the-impossible-by-invading-ukraine/ar-AAUp7Gw?ocid=msedgntp (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/vladimir-putin-has-achieved-the-impossible-by-invading-ukraine/ar-AAUp7Gw?ocid=msedgntp)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on February 28, 2022, 09:54:53 AM
I saw an article saying that Pornhub has gotten into the sanctions, too - any user from Russia who tries to visit their site is redirected to a YouTube video of the Ukrainian national anthem.

Ha! I always suspected pornographers were great humanitarians!  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: JuanSnz on February 28, 2022, 10:24:56 AM
I saw an article saying that Pornhub has gotten into the sanctions, too - any user from Russia who tries to visit their site is redirected to a YouTube video of the Ukrainian national anthem.

But if Pornhub make sanctions to Russian p0rn sites, mostly of the adult content on Internet could not be watched.

Now, that is a good measure for rising the Russian people against the Ukrainian invasion, because what is 'worst' than an angry Russian guy: an angry Russian guy without p0rn (no offense).


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on February 28, 2022, 10:29:13 AM
I saw an article saying that Pornhub has gotten into the sanctions, too - any user from Russia who tries to visit their site is redirected to a YouTube video of the Ukrainian national anthem.

But if Pornhub make sanctions to Russian p0rn sites, mostly of the adult content on Internet could not be watched.

Now, that is a good measure for rising the Russian people against the Ukrainian invasion, because what is 'worst' than an angry Russian guy: an angry Russian guy without p0rn (no offense).

I would imagine many of them will find it somewhat deflating. Imagine if this was the thing to bring down Putin.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: El Misfit on February 28, 2022, 07:44:18 PM
I see that Fifa is banning Russia from the World cup, and Russians takes soccer very seriously,  like Americans to football. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on February 28, 2022, 11:06:54 PM
I can't hear you. 

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/HJtzyzDuIhFr3Bf.yaTvKw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2022-02/417de5d0-98c2-11ec-bf3f-aa47d35384f3)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 01, 2022, 09:08:35 AM
Nata's still alive this morning, and has Internet access (which is more surprising). But I fear the real battle for Kyiv has yet to start.

She posted this:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMwPETNWUAA8LbK.jpg)

Optimistic.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 01, 2022, 12:42:36 PM
^Elon Musk has sent a lot of his StarLink terminals to the Ukraine to help keep communications active.^


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 01, 2022, 03:08:12 PM
I watched some of Oliver Stones Ukraine documentary from 2014 last night. It was kind of half of a documentary, just all Anti US pro Russia. it was interesting to hear those perspectives but He was too wrapped up in the big story to, gee I don't know, interview some actual Ukrainians? Disappointing


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: sprite75 on March 02, 2022, 07:30:36 AM
If you're over in the Ukraine and you capture a Russian tank or other military equipment there's no need to declare it (https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/804441.html) on your taxes

Quote
Ukraine's National Agency for the Protection against Corruption (NAPC) has declared that captured Russian tanks and other equipment are not subject to declaration.

"Have you captured a Russian tank or armored personnel carrier and are worried about how to declare it? Keep calm and continue to defend the Motherland! There is no need to declare the captured Russian tanks and other equipment, because the cost of this ... does not exceed 100 living wages (UAH 248,100)," NAPC's press service said.

Also, there is no need in this case to submit reports of significant changes in property status within 10 days.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Newt on March 02, 2022, 07:35:28 AM
Oh thank you for that sprite!

"Have you captured a Russian tank or armored personnel carrier and are worried about how to declare it?"

That delights me.   :bouncegiggle:   "Heroiam slava!"


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 02, 2022, 12:43:05 PM
Nata's still posting today.  :thumbup: It's her wedding anniversary. Kyiv is on Putin's backburner now.

Good article, long but worth the read: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340 (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Jim H on March 02, 2022, 03:47:11 PM
The world is such a strange place sometimes.  Something I think about sometimes, especially with a guy like Putin.  Putin is pushing 70.  He could have a heart attack and keel over, like Warren G Harding did.  Odds aren't even that astronomical looking at charts of it - 1-2% chance of death in a year.  There's rumors he has a terminal disease already.  What would happen then?  It'd be impossible to say.  Russia doesn't seem well-prepared for it though.  Who knows what the oligarchs would do.  Would this war abruptly end, or are they too committed?

Something is off when one man's life matters so much in the path of history in a world of billions. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 02, 2022, 11:13:52 PM
People like this give me hope.

An old Ukrainian woman gives Russian soldiers sunflower seeds that will grow on their graves.
Sunflowers are Ukraine's national flower.

Then she basically says ' f**k you!'

http://youtu.be/pekBo-ynIhI (http://youtu.be/pekBo-ynIhI)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 02, 2022, 11:58:47 PM
...Something is off when one man's life matters so much in the path of history in a world of billions. 

Now that I dig.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 03, 2022, 10:09:38 AM
Nata is still posting. In fact, today she posted pictures feeding the pigeons. No war images.

A Russian convoy is now reportedly stalled 20 miles outside Kyiv.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 03, 2022, 12:42:13 PM
Since biden won't do it, a couple of US companies quit buying Russian oil...
Gonna hurt us more than it does them, but I guess it sends a statement...


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 04, 2022, 09:04:37 AM
Nata's still feeding the pigeons. Even though they're shelling Kyiv.

https://youtu.be/Oke_-kJg8pg


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 04, 2022, 09:05:58 AM
Since biden won't do it, a couple of US companies quit buying Russian oil...
Gonna hurt us more than it does them, but I guess it sends a statement...

I guess you send a statement too, what that is...???  :question:



Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on March 04, 2022, 12:39:25 PM
It's become morally inexcusable to fund Putin by purchasing his oil.

If the world quit buying Russian oil, Putin's regime would collapse. Russia is already imploding in slow motion in the realm of history, has been for decades with its low birth rates and internal decay, but without oil to sell, the country would simply descend into third world status. (Which could be even more dangerous.)

It's not a scientific survey, but every Russian I have spoken to in the last fifteen years hated Putin and wanted him gone. I look on this aggression in Ukraine as Putin's fault, not Russian people's, though I'd like to see more open resistance and non-cooperation among Russians inside Russia, and sanctions may nudge that along.

I know they have motivation to be so, but the courage of the Ukrainians who are standing in front of Russian tanks is humbling. War brings out the best and the worst at the same time.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 04, 2022, 04:13:05 PM
I drive for a living. I'm not going to pay 10 a gallon for gas so NATO can expand it's operations in yet another former soviet territory. I feel bad for Ukraine though and in fact Ukraine could be any of us. What if China started supporting secession in Texas or Florida or gave Mexico weapons to take back California?

We are all just pawns in the big chess game of the rich and powerful.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNCUh6LWUAQ2CqV?format=jpg&name=small)





Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 05, 2022, 11:38:05 AM
Nata is still feeding the pigeons and begging for donations. I'm afraid the siege of Kyiv will start soon.

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274894120_4996890077036355_8118750812625971575_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sDIrGAtnRsoAX8PRM21&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_Wrpv2ItrSMob7Cg-lCUSfosHOhCeJazRTVf4Wfo2l6w&oe=62289E31)


My Russian friend is continuing to post despite Russia saying they've cut off access to Facebook. I guess he's using a VPN. He's not saying anything too inflammatory but I'm suddenly a little afraid for him too when I hear about Putin's crackdown on "fake news."


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on March 05, 2022, 01:55:26 PM
Apparently it's illegal in Russia to call this a war, it's a "special operation."


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 05, 2022, 02:23:51 PM
Well, it looks like no one should fret too much about Russian gas; it's pretty low. They're convoy is stalled. It ran out of gas!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 05, 2022, 03:20:47 PM
Well, it looks like no one should fret too much about Russian gas; it's pretty low. They're convoy is stalled. It ran out of gas!

It's not because they ran out of gas, it's because the Russians are having a hard time getting the gas to the tanks, as well as food & spare parts due to bottlenecking & Ukrainian attacks.
Making a single 40 mile long convoy was strategically a pretty bad idea.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 05, 2022, 03:26:13 PM
^ If they can't get the gas to the tanks...then they'er out of gas! Which gets me to thinking (uh oh!) did the trucks bring them gas run out of gas?  :question:
Or was there never any gas on the way?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Jim H on March 05, 2022, 04:03:11 PM
Well, it looks like no one should fret too much about Russian gas; it's pretty low. They're convoy is stalled. It ran out of gas!

It's not because they ran out of gas, it's because the Russians are having a hard time getting the gas to the tanks, as well as food & spare parts due to bottlenecking & Ukrainian attacks.
Making a single 40 mile long convoy was strategically a pretty bad idea.

From what I've read from some military people, it sounds like Russian tanks were poorly maintained and not run frequently enough but corruption in logging means they can't really even tell easily what has and hasn't been maintained.  They didn't do things like limit sun exposure and monitor tires, check for rust, all kinds of stuff.  So the tires seem ok at a glance, but have gotten weak; this means they can't drive well through Ukrainian mud (which apparently is brutal) without shredding and getting stuck.  So now they have to drive on a limited number of roads and mostly stick together, making them easier targets.  

Russia blew this initial attack in a number of ways; almost every expert overestimated how fit the Russian military was.  While it makes me happy for Ukraine, it makes me worry for the world; I don't like the idea of badly corrupt and inept fools with thousands of nukes.  Failures in the missile detection systems in the USSR days nearly led to nuclear war in the 1980s, I don't want that to happen again when we have less competent and moral people than Stanislav Petrov at the button.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 05, 2022, 06:29:58 PM
Well, it looks like no one should fret too much about Russian gas; it's pretty low. They're convoy is stalled. It ran out of gas!

It's not because they ran out of gas, it's because the Russians are having a hard time getting the gas to the tanks, as well as food & spare parts due to bottlenecking & Ukrainian attacks.
Making a single 40 mile long convoy was strategically a pretty bad idea.

From what I've read from some military people, it sounds like Russian tanks were poorly maintained and not run frequently enough but corruption in logging means they can't really even tell easily what has and hasn't been maintained.  They didn't do things like limit sun exposure and monitor tires, check for rust, all kinds of stuff.  So the tires seem ok at a glance, but have gotten weak; this means they can't drive well through Ukrainian mud (which apparently is brutal) without shredding and getting stuck.  So now they have to drive on a limited number of roads and mostly stick together, making them easier targets.  

Russia blew this initial attack in a number of ways; almost every expert overestimated how fit the Russian military was.  While it makes me happy for Ukraine, it makes me worry for the world; I don't like the idea of badly corrupt and inept fools with thousands of nukes.  Failures in the missile detection systems in the USSR days nearly led to nuclear war in the 1980s, I don't want that to happen again when we have less competent and moral people than Stanislav Petrov at the button.

Honestly, we've known for decades that the Russian military is in a bad way. They use conscripts who are badly trained and brutally treated by their comrades-in-arms as well as their commanders. The deployment of their one aircraft carrier to Syria a couple of years back was a disaster for them. They lost two jets (one was due to the deck catapult failing if I recall correctly and I can't remember why they lost the other one, although I am pretty sure it was another accident). The ship's water filtration system failed and they had to send out a supply ship to give them fresh water (although I think the sailors had to go without showers for the duration). I think I might have even heard that the engine failed on the route home and it had to be towed at least part of the way back. The problem is that people can learn from these mistakes and make sure they don't happen the next time (I believe the Admiral Kuznetsov went in for a major refit to fix these problems for example and an intensive training regime was planned for its sailors). I'd rather see Russia not learn from its mistakes and make them later on. The first Chechen campaign used up all the Russian army's ammunition supplies for the next five years and evidently, they have a terrible system in place for command and control for their fighters.

Still, all this is an improvement on the days when electricity companies shut off supplies to Russian military bases because they couldn't afford to pay their electric bills. Much of their equipment is still Cold War relics (although they do have some quite scary modern kit). I wouldn't be surprised to see a repeat of what happened in the Winter War of 39-40.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 05, 2022, 08:24:12 PM
This is stating to feel like the new OJ Simpson Trial.....
Other stuff going on in the world & in America, but not a peep about it.....

I look at the maps, & it looks like Russia's gained very little ground, yet I turn on the 6:30 nooz from any of the big three netwerks, and they make it sound like putin's plowed halfway across the country, the collapse of the Ukraine could be any hour now....

Did Russia have this hard of a time with Georgia or Crimea?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 06, 2022, 04:18:32 AM
Neither Georgia or Crimea had 8 years to prepare for an invasion and were much smaller operations that didn't expose the weaknesses of the Russian war machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War if you want more details.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 06, 2022, 10:56:06 AM
Nata's still posting, still feeding pigeons.

(https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/%2Fmethode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Fd6b5a9fc-9c7e-11ec-931c-643306e9125f.jpg?crop=4535%2C2551%2C214%2C476&resize=1200)

My Russian friend's still posting, complaining about sanctions, nothing blatantly anti-war.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 06, 2022, 03:34:33 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNFaTURXIAY4c_M?format=jpg&name=small)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNKskTsXMAMxrQk?format=jpg&name=small)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on March 06, 2022, 05:17:27 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNFaTURXIAY4c_M?format=jpg&name=small)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNKskTsXMAMxrQk?format=jpg&name=small)

The guy in the top picture has really had it.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 07, 2022, 09:10:40 AM
Nata's still posting, still feeding pigeons, reports coffee's still available. Judging by the pictures she is choosing to post, the streets of Kyiv are almost completely deserted. No context for this one:

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274926504_10227216961669494_4120391713932383528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=t9r_gH9Eaa4AX-5CS8j&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9KTvKcr_Q0r0qVXzBRpI_fhaKzSd2Tr64MrRXJwcfLbA&oe=622AF2FD)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 08, 2022, 09:41:58 AM
Nata continues to feed the pigeons. It's become a small act of defiance. For the first time today you could see other people out in the park besides her husband. I have to rely on Facebook translations, but it sounds like she said her elderly father had gotten out of the city and was telling others which bridge was safe to use to exit Kyiv.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 08, 2022, 09:55:13 AM
...and now a statement from the ex-POTUS-


"At a speech in New Orleans on Saturday night, Trump mused that we could simply apply Chinese flags to our F-22s and then “bomb the s--t out of Russia,” setting off a conflict between those two countries.

“And then we say, China did it, we didn’t do it, China did it, and then they start fighting with each other and we sit back and watch,” Trump said,"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/06/trump-muses-about-really-bad-quite-possibly-illegal-idea-bomb-russia-using-chinese-flags/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/06/trump-muses-about-really-bad-quite-possibly-illegal-idea-bomb-russia-using-chinese-flags/)

Super genius!


(https://i.imgur.com/k7vLpMX.gif) (https://lunapic.com)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 08, 2022, 10:54:02 AM
  Meanwhile, Putin says he'll open up roads for refugees...into RUSSIA!?
I don't know which comment is more moronic.

(https://i.imgur.com/4KC510M.gif) (https://lunapic.com)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 12:12:12 PM
Yes, Trump has been known for his bad jokes.
Still not as moronic as Biden's SOTU.....


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 08, 2022, 12:20:32 PM
Yes, Trump has been known for his bad jokes.
Still not as moronic as Biden's SOTU.....

Bad joke?
Almost as bad as nuking hurricanes and injecting bleach.
Known for his bad jokes? He's joking about people dying in Ukraine, and he's joking about WWIII?
Funny as cancer.  :hatred:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 12:22:51 PM
When did he say injecting bleach?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 08, 2022, 12:25:33 PM
^  I'd say don't act stupid, but I don't think your acting.
Your Trump worship is getting cartoonish.
Just a hint.  :lookingup:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 12:28:57 PM
I'm not the one who keeps following this guy, you are.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 08, 2022, 12:35:41 PM
I'm not the one who keeps following this guy, you are.

Yeah, I follow what he says. But not for the reasons you do.
He still holds many idiots ears. And that worries me.
You follow him because...well...


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 12:44:29 PM
Nope, still not the one following him....

I'm following the morons that are in power, like the one who shut down American oil production & is now talking in circles to explain how he had nothing to do with it....


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 08, 2022, 12:51:42 PM
Ok, I'm not gonna get into your your loony tune s**t over some washed up wingnut.
Carry on.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 12:52:50 PM
?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 08, 2022, 12:54:17 PM
?

Perfect response from someone who doesn't have a clue.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 01:00:03 PM
I was just a little confuse over which "washed up wingnut" you were talking about;;;;
The one that's been OUT of the white house for the past year, or the one that's IN the white house right now????


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 08, 2022, 01:06:12 PM
I was just a little confuse over which "washed up wingnut" you were talking about;;;;
The one that's been OUT of the white house for the past year, or the one that's IN the white house right now????

 ^ Your a little "confuse", all right;;;
...OK. I'll go for that.  :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 01:59:01 PM
So in other words, you forgot what you were talking about....


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 08, 2022, 02:27:59 PM
Can we start talking about the other crazy SOB again?

Looks like Russia is really surprisingly bogged down and bungled their logistics badly. Troop morale is likely low, as well. They're not making much progress and they look to be stalled right now. Of course, if it goes on long enough eventually they will simply crush Ukraine with numbers.

Also, America has banned Russian oil and I predict domestic support for Ukraine will plummet once Americans start paying more at the gas pumps. Enjoy this little bit of unity while it lasts.



Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 02:44:27 PM
Can we start talking about the other crazy SOB again?

Looks like Russia is really surprisingly bogged down and bungled their logistics badly. Troop morale is likely low, as well. They're not making much progress and they look to be stalled right now. Of course, if it goes on long enough eventually they will simply crush Ukraine with numbers.

Also, America has banned Russian oil and I predict domestic support for Ukraine will plummet once Americans start paying more at the gas pumps. Enjoy this little bit of unity while it lasts.



That's what I keep getting from alternate nooz outlets, but the 6:30 nooz on the big three networks keep making it sound like it's the other way around....
I'm beginning to get the feeling that biden is waiting for everyone else to get involved, like Woodrow Wilson did in world war one, with a sycophantic calling for an intervention....


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 08, 2022, 04:02:21 PM
gas prices going up.

Are people going to tip their uber drivers more as part of the war effort?

or are drivers supposed to have a glass of water for dinner for the war effort.

I'm not hanging around to find out. gone fishin!



Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 04:05:53 PM
gas prices going up.

Are people going to tip their uber drivers more as part of the war effort?

or are drivers supposed to have a glass of water for dinner for the war effort.



According to every stooge in the white house and Stephen Colbert, people who can't afford gas need to cough up $50,000 for an electric car.......


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 08, 2022, 04:10:38 PM
wrong Stephan Colbert was making a joke I just watched that clip.



rev powell -
Quote
Looks like Russia is really surprisingly bogged down and bungled their logistics badly. Troop morale is likely low, as well.

I haven't seen any evidence of either of those things. They're so "bogged down" that they're about to take the capitol after like a week.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 08, 2022, 04:41:49 PM
very humane move on the part of the EU here. 

https://www.newsweek.com/vaccine-delivery-canceled-country-that-did-not-condemn-russia-1685561 (https://www.newsweek.com/vaccine-delivery-canceled-country-that-did-not-condemn-russia-1685561)


Quote
One country's decision to abstain from condemning Russia has now cost it a shipment of COVID-19 vaccines.

On Wednesday, the United Nations (U.N.) General Assembly overwhelmingly voted in favor of condemning Russia for its invasion of Ukraine and demanding immediate withdrawal, with 141 out of the 193 members nations voting in favor of the resolution. Five nations voted against it, including Russia itself, Belarus, North Korea, Syria, and Eritrea. The remaining 35 countries abstained from the vote.


Among the abstaining members was the South Asian country of Bangladesh. As a result of that decision, Lithuania reversed a previous decision from earlier in the week to send over 440,000 doses of COVID-19 vaccines to Bangladesh, according to a report from Lithuanian National Radio and Television (LRT). This was confirmed to LRT by a spokesperson for Lithuanian prime minister Ingrida Šimonytė.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 04:53:38 PM
wrong Stephan Colbert was making a joke I just watched that clip.

I Wasn't wrong about the white house, and why is it supposed to be sick when trump references some plot device for old cartoons, but we're supposed to take it all in good humor when liberals talk about how much they hate a certain class of people?

rev powell -
Quote
Looks like Russia is really surprisingly bogged down and bungled their logistics badly. Troop morale is likely low, as well.

I haven't seen any evidence of either of those things. They're so "bogged down" that they're about to take the capitol after like a week.

Yes, the evening nooz is stressing just how devastating the air strikes & shelling of civilians has been, but if you google "map of russian occupation of ukraine" or some variation thereof, managed to gain very little ground.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 06:33:03 PM
So, when a republican tells a joke, it's not a joke, but when some rich, stuck up "comedian" hates on people, it's supposed to be a joke?

G**D***, your anger & hate have got your sense of humor all screwed up!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: El Misfit on March 08, 2022, 06:51:26 PM
CAN WE F**KING PLEASE GET BACK TO PUTIN INVADING UKRAINE FOR F**K SAKES?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 08, 2022, 07:11:10 PM
What worrries me is if they make it a "no fly zone".
Also what happens to Ukraine if someone doesn't stop Russia?
I don't think sanctions are going to do enough. Putin doesn't care if the Russian people starve. That pig is rich.
He's in it for the kicks and jollies.  :bluesad:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Jim H on March 08, 2022, 09:36:16 PM
So, when a republican tells a joke, it's not a joke, but when some rich, stuck up "comedian" hates on people, it's supposed to be a joke?

G**D***, your anger & hate have got your sense of humor all screwed up!

Are you confusing RC and Lester, or think they're the same person?  Lester didn't mention political parties, he didn't mention republicans, he didn't mention jokes by other people, he didn't bring up other comedians or politicians of any kind telling jokes, and he said nothing even remotely hateful or angry.  This reads as a total non-sequitur response as a result.

But back to Ukraine...

Quote
They're so "bogged down" that they're about to take the capitol after like a week.

They likely will eventually if they keep pushing, but they're not about to.  They're basically talking about sending a bunch more troops into a meat grinder and fail, Ukraine has had too much time to prepare and there aren't enough troops yet to overcome.  They don't even have the city surrounded, just two sides last I looked.  It's going to be a long bloody siege looks like, and Russia will pay for every inch in blood.  I guess we'll find out in a couple more days when the current ceasefire ends. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 08, 2022, 11:06:13 PM
I was just a little confuse over which "washed up wingnut" you were talking about;;;;
The one that's been OUT of the white house for the past year, or the one that's IN the white house right now????

 ^ Your a little "confuse", all right;;;
...OK. I'll go for that.  :thumbup:

You two are terrible.  And funny.   :thumbup: :bouncegiggle:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 08, 2022, 11:40:05 PM
anyone put off by the overt fascism on display in the Ukraine? particularly in the military ranks


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 08, 2022, 11:54:38 PM
anyone put off by the overt fascism on display in the Ukraine? particularly in the military ranks

You mean by the Ukrainian army or the Russian army?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 09, 2022, 12:22:51 AM
I meant the Ukrainian one but that's a good point. Eastern Europe in general has a big nazi community who are also like hobbits


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 09, 2022, 09:52:30 AM
Breaking News!
 A Ukrainian woman has downed a drone with a jar of tomatoes as Vladimir Putin's Russian troops continue to mount with their invasion operation.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1577097/ukraine-woman-down-drone-tomato-jar-russia-invasion-putin-latest-news-ont (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1577097/ukraine-woman-down-drone-tomato-jar-russia-invasion-putin-latest-news-ont)
 
Dam!  :buggedout:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 09, 2022, 10:30:18 AM
anyone put off by the overt fascism on display in the Ukraine? particularly in the military ranks

That's certainly one of Putin's two talking points along with NATO. There are some independent paramilitary groups (most notably the Azov battalion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalionl)) that are far-right-wing. Of course, it would be better if they weren't tolerated, but the government is not turning down their assistance in a time of emergency.

They have their own politics that are unfamiliar to us: "“In Europe, Nazis support Putin. They think that he wants to make a white, Slavic Europe,” says [Sergeant] Kharkiv [of the Azvov Battalion]. “But the white leader, Putin, kills Slavic people. I don’t know what the separatists are fighting for."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-many-neo-nazis-is-the-us-backing-in-ukraine (https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-many-neo-nazis-is-the-us-backing-in-ukraine)

2018 article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 09, 2022, 10:34:05 AM
Nata continues to post and continues to feed pigeons. Her sister and her sister's kids evacuated and is in Hungary. They think that Hungarians don't like Ukrainians.

Russian friend is still posting somehow and says he can access youtube. He's not posting anything specifically anti-Putin but you can tell he's not pro-war.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 09, 2022, 03:33:54 PM
Quote
That's certainly one of Putin's two talking points along with NATO

Well, it outta be cuz its an accurate one. they also typically reject any sort of diplomacy with russia which is not helpful

"After President Zelensky’s election in 2019, the extreme right threatened him with removal from office, or even death, if he negotiated with separatist leaders from Donbas and followed through on the Minsk Protocol. Zelensky had run for election as a “peace candidate,” but under threat from the right, he refused to even talk to Donbas leaders, whom he dismissed as terrorists."

https://www.codepink.org/how_the_us_has_empowered_and_armed_neo_nazis_in_ukraine (https://www.codepink.org/how_the_us_has_empowered_and_armed_neo_nazis_in_ukraine)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on March 09, 2022, 06:29:40 PM
One thing this crisis has driven home to me is that a disturbingly large percentage of the American electorate would be perfectly happy to see democracy wither here and all over the world as long as they have jobs and their gas is $1.50 a gallon.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 09, 2022, 06:36:54 PM
One thing this crisis has driven home to me is that a disturbingly large percentage of the American electorate would be perfectly happy to see democracy wither here and all over the world as long as they have jobs and their gas is $1.50 a gallon.

It is frightening, stunning, and true. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 09, 2022, 06:38:26 PM
One thing this crisis has driven home to me is that a disturbingly large percentage of the American electorate would be perfectly happy to see democracy wither here and all over the world as long as they have jobs and their gas is $1.50 a gallon.

How so?
I've watched democracy get stomped on over the past year while jobs have disappeared and gas shot back up to $3.50 a gallon.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 09, 2022, 06:57:43 PM
Quote
That's certainly one of Putin's two talking points along with NATO

Well, it outta be cuz its an accurate one. they also typically reject any sort of diplomacy with russia which is not helpful

"After President Zelensky’s election in 2019, the extreme right threatened him with removal from office, or even death, if he negotiated with separatist leaders from Donbas and followed through on the Minsk Protocol. Zelensky had run for election as a “peace candidate,” but under threat from the right, he refused to even talk to Donbas leaders, whom he dismissed as terrorists."

https://www.codepink.org/how_the_us_has_empowered_and_armed_neo_nazis_in_ukraine (https://www.codepink.org/how_the_us_has_empowered_and_armed_neo_nazis_in_ukraine)

Even that article (which honestly looks to be written by far-left kooks---they frickin' cite "Moon of Alabama" as a source) states up front that "Russia exaggerating it as a pretext for war" and points out that their far-right party (and the Nazi sympathizers are a minority even in within the party) won less than 5% of the parliament. And their support is shrinking.

I find this to be pretty balanced: https://www.npr.org/2022/03/05/1084729572/the-russian-ukraine-conflict-could-strengthen-neo-fascist-groups-in-both-countri (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/05/1084729572/the-russian-ukraine-conflict-could-strengthen-neo-fascist-groups-in-both-countri)

There are Nazis everywhere. Hell, a couple of US Congresspeople just spoke at a Nazi event (where the crowd cheered for Putin, because Nazis can't seem to figure out who they support in this white-on-white conflict).

There's a right wing fringe in Ukraine, but it seems to me focusing on them only muddies the water in what is actually a rare case of moral clarity in world politics: Putin is 100% wrong. Even if you grant that there are Nazis in Ukraine, he can't invade a sovereign country to root them out. Anyone can invade anyone if that's the case.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 09, 2022, 07:29:30 PM
One thing this crisis has driven home to me is that a disturbingly large percentage of the American electorate would be perfectly happy to see democracy wither here and all over the world as long as they have jobs and their gas is $1.50 a gallon.

How so?
I've watched democracy get stomped on over the past year while jobs have disappeared and gas shot back up to $3.50 a gallon.

Oh, Cerebus- employment has been pretty good.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf)

f**k gas prices. Just tighten your belt. It's a war for freedom.  Dam.
Folks don't have a place to live in Ukraine. And your worried about how much it will take to drive your fat ass to McDonald's?
Gimme a break.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 09, 2022, 07:51:47 PM
One thing this crisis has driven home to me is that a disturbingly large percentage of the American electorate would be perfectly happy to see democracy wither here and all over the world as long as they have jobs and their gas is $1.50 a gallon.

How so?
I've watched democracy get stomped on over the past year while jobs have disappeared and gas shot back up to $3.50 a gallon.

f**k gas prices. Just tighten your belt. It's a war for freedom.  Dam.
Folks don't have a place to live in Ukraine. And your worried about how much it will take to drive your fat ass to McDonald's?
Gimme a break.

So you'll be just fine with cops in swat gear stopping you for no reason & going through your pockets every time you run up the street for your bag of weed?
Did you even read this?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 09, 2022, 07:54:48 PM
One thing this crisis has driven home to me is that a disturbingly large percentage of the American electorate would be perfectly happy to see democracy wither here and all over the world as long as they have jobs and their gas is $1.50 a gallon.

How so?
I've watched democracy get stomped on over the past year while jobs have disappeared and gas shot back up to $3.50 a gallon.

f**k gas prices. Just tighten your belt. It's a war for freedom.  Dam.
Folks don't have a place to live in Ukraine. And your worried about how much it will take to drive your fat ass to McDonald's?
Gimme a break.

So you'll be just fine with cops in swat gear stopping you for no reason & going through your pockets every time you run up the street for your bag of weed?
Did you even read this?


Swat gear? WTF are you babbling about?What does weed and cops in swat gear have to do with gas prices???


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 09, 2022, 07:57:21 PM
^So, I take it you DIDN"T RED IT!^


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 09, 2022, 08:02:04 PM
^So, I take it you DIDN"T RED IT!^

Didn"t red what???  :question:

You didn't post any link-?  :question:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 09, 2022, 08:11:09 PM
^So, I take it you DIDN"T RED IT!^

Didn"t red what???  :question:

Indy brought up the loss of democracy HERE, then made it sound like the train wreck we've been on for the past year is some how a good thing to him.
I don't know if he eats mcdonalds, but if he says mass unemployment is better than freedom, I'm going to take issue, and yes, that does mean your right to weed or the ability to walk down the street without getting stopped & frisked.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 09, 2022, 08:17:34 PM
^So, I take it you DIDN"T RED IT!^

Didn"t red what???  :question:

Indy brought up the loss of democracy HERE, then made it sound like the train wreck we've been on for the past year is some how a good thing to him.
I don't know if he eats mcdonalds, but if he says mass unemployment is better than freedom, I'm going to take issue, and yes, that does mean your right to weed or the ability to walk down the street without getting stopped & frisked.

Woah- wait.  I'm still trying to wrap my brain around mass unemployment, me smoking weed, and getting frisked by cops. None of this makes a lick of sense.
Oh- and weed is legal here. And I don't drive anywhere to get my weed.
(https://i.imgur.com/sQD76Lx.gif) (https://lunapic.com)
Please explain even ONE line of what you wrote. Just ONE.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on March 09, 2022, 08:24:21 PM
Our unemployment rate, nationwide, is around 4%.
We're adding jobs at a rate not seen in decades.  Right now, if you're not working, it's pretty much because you CHOOSE not to.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 09, 2022, 08:37:05 PM
Our unemployment rate, nationwide, is around 4%.
We're adding jobs at a rate not seen in decades.  Right now, if you're not working, it's pretty much because you CHOOSE not to.

Or are just stupid and no one will hire you because you're bonkers.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 09, 2022, 08:38:21 PM
Our unemployment rate, nationwide, is around 4%.
We're adding jobs at a rate not seen in decades.  Right now, if you're not working, it's pretty much because you CHOOSE not to.

Then how come employers are CHOSING not to return my calls or emails?
And how is $4.00 good for democracy?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on March 09, 2022, 08:39:31 PM
A.  Because they probably read the stuff you post here.
B.  I never said it was.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 09, 2022, 08:42:30 PM
Our unemployment rate, nationwide, is around 4%.
We're adding jobs at a rate not seen in decades.  Right now, if you're not working, it's pretty much because you CHOOSE not to.

Then how come employers are CHOSING not to return my calls or emails?
And how is $4.00 good for democracy?

Maybe because your skills are not in demand? Or, for your age, your resume is not so great?
As far as $4.00 go- most folks will spend that much on coffee every morning.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 09, 2022, 08:50:17 PM
B.  I never said it was.

One thing this crisis has driven home to me is that a disturbingly large percentage of the American electorate would be perfectly happy to see democracy wither here and all over the world as long as they have jobs and their gas is $1.50 a gallon.

Actually, a statement like this suggests that you believe mass unemployment & out of control inflation ARE good for democracy.
It suggests seeing everyone broke & starving is a wonderful thing as long as democracy as you believe it should look falls into your narrative.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on March 09, 2022, 08:54:00 PM
Again, you miss my point (even though it wasn't very subtle).

Everyone else seemed to have no trouble grasping it.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 09, 2022, 09:00:05 PM
Again, you miss my point (even though it wasn't very subtle).

Everyone else seemed to have no trouble grasping it.

Really?
So far, nobody else has reacted to except RC & myself, & RC thought it was about MacDonald's

Speaks volumes about people who think poverty is great!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 09, 2022, 09:06:28 PM
Again, you miss my point (even though it wasn't very subtle).

Everyone else seemed to have no trouble grasping it.

Really?
So far, nobody else has reacted to except RC & myself, & RC thought it was about MacDonald's

Speaks volumes about people who think poverty is great!

Hoo-boy.
I'm done here.
McDonald's. Of everything I said, the only thing that wedged between your ears was 'McDonald's'. Not "MacDonald's". Or maybe it was. Maybe both were there and you chose the wrong one?
Hey, it happens to us all.



Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 09, 2022, 09:42:48 PM
Quote
One thing this crisis has driven home to me is that a disturbingly large percentage of the American electorate would be perfectly happy to see democracy wither here and all over the world as long as they have jobs and their gas is $1.50 a gallon.

I'm more disturbed by Americans who would steal food from the mouths of other Americans in order to support empire and nation building abroad

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNXr0mRWUAEFgQb?format=jpg&name=small)

note the wealth disparity. if you don't have to fight and your own economic situation isn't affected it's easy to be a globalist



literal Nazis and we're supposed to look the other way


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: El Misfit on March 09, 2022, 10:36:10 PM
Uh, who or what is  Rasmussen Poll? :question:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 09, 2022, 10:47:24 PM
Our unemployment rate, nationwide, is around 4%.
We're adding jobs at a rate not seen in decades.  Right now, if you're not working, it's pretty much because you CHOOSE not to.

Dig it.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 09, 2022, 10:53:20 PM
...
One thing this crisis has driven home to me is that a disturbingly large percentage of the American electorate would be perfectly happy to see democracy wither here and all over the world as long as they have jobs and their gas is $1.50 a gallon.
Actually, a statement like this suggests that you believe mass unemployment & out of control inflation ARE good for democracy.
It suggests seeing everyone broke & starving is a wonderful thing as long as democracy as you believe it should look falls into your narrative.

I am sorry you are broke and starving.  Please recognize the sacrifices made that enable your remarks, though I understand that is hard when you are starving.   


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 09, 2022, 11:14:50 PM
Misfit - an extremely well known polling co


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 09, 2022, 11:35:58 PM
Our unemployment rate, nationwide, is around 4%.
We're adding jobs at a rate not seen in decades.  Right now, if you're not working, it's pretty much because you CHOOSE not to.

Y'know, it occurs to me that they kept trying this same krap all throughout the obama administration, when these number don't reflect businesses that had to close down because of covid or inflation, people who's employment benefits have run out, not to mention just how many of these jobs actually pay a living wage, particularly in this record setting inflation, which this krap for brains white house is is trying to pretend has nothing to do with their policies, and are now trying to pretend high prices have nothing to do with inflation.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 10, 2022, 04:48:55 AM
 ^The reason you can't get a job has nothing to do with Biden or any political machinery in operation.
Being as your on SSI, you can only work a limited amount of time a week without them reducing your check.
That being said, your resume may read your a middle aged man with limited skills who is unable to work full time.
Not very impressive. Seems like you were also out of work threw the whole Trump term- your excuse falls flat on it's face.

PS: There was no Covid under Obama, by the way.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 10, 2022, 06:19:12 AM
I've heard more on Putin's latest nuke sword rattling, and  Zelensky's plea for a 'no fly zone', which is for the most part a declaration of war from NATO.
This is between a rock and a hard place for the whole world.  :bluesad:
The world is being cautious- Putin is not. He's going straight in, no rubber.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 10, 2022, 10:08:19 AM
Nata is still alive, still feeding pigeons, still posting.

She reports about a large pack of 50 or so dogs living in the botanical gardens, abandoned by their owners when they fled.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 10, 2022, 03:02:38 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-passes-bill-offering-nearly-14-billion-in-aid-to-ukraine (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-passes-bill-offering-nearly-14-billion-in-aid-to-ukraine)

enhanced child tax credit for Americans gone but plenty of money for NATO


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 10, 2022, 03:11:09 PM
Ukraine isn't in NATO (and was turned down when it asked to join).


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 10, 2022, 03:43:10 PM
but it's why the situation has been forced upon the world


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 10, 2022, 03:52:39 PM
So you are saying NATO not letting Ukraine in, is the cause of this situation?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 10, 2022, 04:03:19 PM
if you don't understand the role of NATO expansion in this conflict I don't know what to tell you. You are either ignorant or heavily brainwashed.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 10, 2022, 04:19:47 PM
So you are saying NATO not letting Ukraine in, is the cause of this situation?

I think Lester is acknowledging a no-win situation; a trap. 

If you believe NATO letting Ukraine in would have led to conflict, I expect you are correct. 

The possibility of NATO expansion into Ukraine surely has spooked poo-tin.  The ramifications are complex and huge. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 10, 2022, 04:22:17 PM
Oh I know the role of NATO expansion in it and how Putin has used it as an excuse for what he was going to do anyway. The reason they weren't being allowed in was to avoid conflict with Russia. Oddly enough, avoiding conflict with Russia was also why Ukraine wanted in.

I also know that Ukraine isn't in NATO and wasn't going to be getting in, which from your earlier post, you didn't seem to be aware of.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 10, 2022, 04:27:04 PM
If you are going to nitpick : 15 billion for UKRAINE for assistance in a conflict that occurred because yaddq yadda

No enhanced child tax credit for Americans experiencing record inflation and so forth.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 10, 2022, 04:28:16 PM
There, we are making progress. Well done.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 10, 2022, 04:33:48 PM
If you are going to nitpick : 15 billion for UKRAINE for assistance in a conflict that occurred because yaddq yadda

No enhanced child tax credit for Americans experiencing record inflation and so forth.

Which comes out to about $49 per person...


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 10, 2022, 04:44:54 PM
It's a thousand bucks isn't it


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 10, 2022, 05:07:54 PM
Only if the population of the US is a mere 15,000,000. I think it is around 330 million which would make Cerb's number more accurate.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 10, 2022, 05:55:33 PM
It's the Ukrainian refugees getting $49 each in lieu of American parents getting a $1,000 tax credit.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 10, 2022, 06:25:24 PM
I see what you're saying


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 10, 2022, 11:49:15 PM
I read somewhere that the Ukraine had the foresight to destroy all rail lines between the two countries, which is important as Russian military trucks only have a 90 miles range, and are geared for transporting missiles, not food, fuel or other supplies...


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 11, 2022, 09:52:53 AM
Nata still posting and still feeding pigeons. The park is deserted except for her and her husband. Looks like they managed to buy some berries as well. Per reports Russian forces are regrouping outside the city. I predict they'll increase shelling soon. Russia doesn't want house-to-house urban fighting but they may not have a choice.

My Russian friend continues to post on Facebook, using a VPN.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 11, 2022, 02:00:59 PM
A son living in Ukraine begs his father not to listen to Russian propaganda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSIsrvim4ec&t=470s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSIsrvim4ec&t=470s)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 11, 2022, 03:51:16 PM
I'd actually rather not know about stuff like this

https://www.businessinsider.com/roman-abramovich-russian-oligarch-israel-holocaust-museum-ask-sanction-donor-2022-03 (https://www.businessinsider.com/roman-abramovich-russian-oligarch-israel-holocaust-museum-ask-sanction-donor-2022-03)

Quote
Last month, Israel's Holocaust Memorial Museum, a chief rabbi, and several Israeli charities and organizations asked the US to avoid sanctioning Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich, The Times of Israel reported on Sunday.

"I gotta get out of these sanctions... Let me call in a favor to the Holocaust Museum"


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 11, 2022, 04:16:52 PM
I'd actually rather not know about stuff like this

https://www.businessinsider.com/roman-abramovich-russian-oligarch-israel-holocaust-museum-ask-sanction-donor-2022-03 (https://www.businessinsider.com/roman-abramovich-russian-oligarch-israel-holocaust-museum-ask-sanction-donor-2022-03)

Quote
Last month, Israel's Holocaust Memorial Museum, a chief rabbi, and several Israeli charities and organizations asked the US to avoid sanctioning Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich, The Times of Israel reported on Sunday.

"I gotta get out of these sanctions... Let me call in a favor to the Holocaust Museum"

Pretty icky.  :thumbdown:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 11, 2022, 04:18:46 PM
I actually feel bad for Israel in these cases. They are between a rock and a hard place and can't really stand on principle when they probably would like to. Does anyone actually WANT to be friends with Saudi Arabia? it's unfathomable


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Argos on March 11, 2022, 06:40:15 PM
You Americans, don't realize that Ukraine was only free 23 years without be invaded. So, calling those people who are pro-Ukraine 'Nazis' is like calling Nazi your Patriotic heroes because they want to be free for their own.

Sorry if I offend you.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 11, 2022, 06:49:01 PM
...Pretty icky.  :thumbdown:
 

Ain't it though?   :hatred:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 11, 2022, 06:53:17 PM
You Americans, don't realize that Ukraine was only free 23 years without be invaded. So, calling those people who are pro-Ukraine 'Nazis' is like calling Nazi your Patriotic heroes because they want to be free for their own.

Sorry if I offend you.

 :question:  You don't offend, though lean close.  You read some dumb ass remarks from a USA politician, maybe?  The USA is a huge place compared to Europe.  I for one do not know what you are on about. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 11, 2022, 07:25:58 PM
I actually feel bad for Israel in these cases. They are between a rock and a hard place and can't really stand on principle when they probably would like to. Does anyone actually WANT to be friends with Saudi Arabia? it's unfathomable

Saudi Arabia, the UAE & other OPEC nations haven't returned biden'e calls for several weeks....
So instead of turning on the taps here in America, he's he's trying to get oil from Iran...........


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 12, 2022, 10:49:17 AM
Nata still posting, still feeding pigeons.

(https://thumbor.my.ua/uUPcIuSTzWqJxlWHYgue1GfaXzw=/600x/smart/filters:format(webp)/https%3A%2F%2Fs3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com%2Fmedia.my.ua%2Ffeed%2F209%2F396548c089e8db57984c5e7e8db77339.jpg)

Museum of Ukrainian Antiquities of Vasily Tarnovsky in Chernihiv

My Russian friend posts "16 DAYS OF HORROR" but refers to the war as the "special operation": I think he's being sarcastic, but it's hard to tell in translation.

There are a lot of Russians responding to him, so I guess Putin's attempt to block Facebook wasn't very successful.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 13, 2022, 09:55:54 AM
Nata still posts and feeds pigeons.

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275660219_5067199673300180_4170782581982951897_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=eiQiVK7AS1UAX_v4wNo&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9mGczVOeAHKrP0NS-MR8ZY2ZUhEKazCyf_3-39N0WN8w&oe=6232A33B)

Optimistic, no?

My Russian friend reports that Russians are trying to leave the country en masse, presumably to escape life under sanctions.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 13, 2022, 03:36:52 PM
uh oh

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-who-says-it-advised-ukraine-destroy-pathogens-health-labs-prevent-2022-03-11/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-who-says-it-advised-ukraine-destroy-pathogens-health-labs-prevent-2022-03-11/)

Quote
March 11 (Reuters) - The World Health Organization advised Ukraine to destroy high-threat pathogens housed in the country's public health laboratories to prevent "any potential spills" that would spread disease among the population, the agency told Reuters.

Like many other countries, Ukraine has public health laboratories researching how to mitigate the threats of dangerous diseases affecting both animals and humans including, most recently, COVID-19. Its labs have received support from the United States, the European Union and the WHO.


this happened in Iraq in 2003


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 14, 2022, 08:57:10 AM
Nata still posting, still feeding pigeons, even though war has come.

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275692489_4674067289388334_9188185039280776846_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=QA9xyrPnYfYAX85a1-X&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9jznFgOXGfXg-1cieWzLnFZ4zO13Q8ygHuTKfoZulRkw&oe=6234CE26)

This apartment was the home of a friend of hers---they evacuated beforehand.

Most of what she posts is in Russian or Ukrainian, but not this:

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275478785_3032486073683890_130706068003266507_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_VCAWV9MKAgAX-Ot5xA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_d5-Rd1duvqm4KDcU5B7LNwOhumVumS3PVpc2fMMTdPw&oe=623464D8)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Trevor on March 14, 2022, 09:54:27 AM

Most of what she posts is in Russian or Ukrainian, but not this:

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275478785_3032486073683890_130706068003266507_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_VCAWV9MKAgAX-Ot5xA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_d5-Rd1duvqm4KDcU5B7LNwOhumVumS3PVpc2fMMTdPw&oe=623464D8)

 :teddyr: :teddyr: :teddyr: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 14, 2022, 12:39:40 PM
Right now it's a proxy war for the 'West'.
The only thing that gives me hope is most Russians hate Russia.
And the Ukrainian people who are not budging.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 14, 2022, 11:49:40 PM
whole thing is starting to feel like Iraq to me


Quote
The only thing that gives me hope is most Russians hate Russia.

???


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 15, 2022, 06:02:19 AM
 ^I should rephrase that- most Russians hate Putin.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 15, 2022, 08:56:30 AM
^I should rephrase that- most Russians hate Putin.

Unfortunately, I don't think most Russians hate Putin (a significant minority does). My Russian FB friend told me he estimates about 2/3 of Russians believe the propaganda and support the war. The best consolation I could offer him was it was the same with Americans during the second Iraq war, but now almost everyone acknowledges it was a mistake.

Good article on Russia, Putin and history: https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/stephen-kotkin-putin-russia-ukraine-stalin (https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/stephen-kotkin-putin-russia-ukraine-stalin)

Nata's still posting. Some sentimental stuff about her sister, who's now a refugee.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 16, 2022, 08:16:25 AM
Nata is still posting but not feeding the pigeons. Staying indoors. I doubt it's safer.

(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a3158K7_700bwp.webp)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Newt on March 16, 2022, 09:45:40 AM
Darn you, Rev, it hurts when I snort my coffee!

Not that the picture is funny:  too apt to be 'haha' funny.   It just took me by surpise.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 16, 2022, 03:06:49 PM
What do people think will probably happen?

I think Zelensky is going through the motions of trying to get the US involved, but our hands are tied. We are a NATO member and its game over if we go in there.

I think Putin's rabid dog routine will work and Ukraine will eventually agree to not enter NATO in some sort of face saving way, like a 30 year moratorium on it.

Russia will head back home leaving some infrastructure in the pro Russia areas and western nations will fund reconstruction. It will take another month before this happens because of politics

this isn't necessarily what I would like to happen but I can see it going that way.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Jim H on March 16, 2022, 04:31:12 PM
What do people think will probably happen?

I think Zelensky is going through the motions of trying to get the US involved, but our hands are tied. We are a NATO member and its game over if we go in there.

I think Putin's rabid dog routine will work and Ukraine will eventually agree to not enter NATO in some sort of face saving way, like a 30 year moratorium on it.

Russia will head back home leaving some infrastructure in the pro Russia areas and western nations will fund reconstruction. It will take another month before this happens because of politics

this isn't necessarily what I would like to happen but I can see it going that way.

Quite plausible outcome, maybe even the most likely, I'd lean towards a scenario like this as well.  I think your outcome is also actually relatively optimistic, in that I think this is one of the better realistic outcomes for Ukraine.  They maintain sovereignty and don't have a new government installed and get funding to rebuild.  Ukraine might even get back the section of Donbas they lost.  I don't think Russia will give back any of Crimea though no matter what happens.   


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 16, 2022, 05:40:14 PM
What do people think will probably happen?

I think Zelensky is going through the motions of trying to get the US involved, but our hands are tied. We are a NATO member and its game over if we go in there.

I think Putin's rabid dog routine will work and Ukraine will eventually agree to not enter NATO in some sort of face saving way, like a 30 year moratorium on it.

Russia will head back home leaving some infrastructure in the pro Russia areas and western nations will fund reconstruction. It will take another month before this happens because of politics

this isn't necessarily what I would like to happen but I can see it going that way.

Quite plausible outcome, maybe even the most likely, I'd lean towards a scenario like this as well.  I think your outcome is also actually relatively optimistic, in that I think this is one of the better realistic outcomes for Ukraine.  They maintain sovereignty and don't have a new government installed and get funding to rebuild.  Ukraine might even get back the section of Donbas they lost.  I don't think Russia will give back any of Crimea though no matter what happens.   

I think lester's scenario is likely. I think Putin will annex the Donbass regions (and as much territory as he can) and declare victory, leaving Ukraine weakened but still independent. Putin will attempt to install a puppet government but it won't succeed. Ukraine will agree to not enter NATO. Pretty much everyone comes out a loser, except that there will be some deterrence for another dictator to invade a neighbor (looking at you, China).


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 16, 2022, 05:50:57 PM
I'm not so optimistic. I hope I'm wrong, but expect the least.  :bluesad:
For some reason I've had dreams since a child of mushroom clouds. VERY realistic. I know this is a stupid, occult type of belief, but this kind of sh!t has happened to me all my life.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 16, 2022, 06:00:49 PM
The other day, I started working on a timeline of ww1 & ww2.....
While poxy support of the Sino-Japanese war complicates things just a bit, It's pretty clear in both cases that the United States was the "last" to get involved.....


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on March 16, 2022, 06:10:55 PM
I'm still hoping for the removal of Putin - either into forced retirement, a la Khrushchev, or instantaneous lead poisoning, a la Larentvia Beria.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Newt on March 16, 2022, 07:26:31 PM
I think lester's scenario is the best that can be hoped for.

Well, aside from Putin's summary removal.

I thought I heard on today's news that Zelensky had said Ukraine will not be joining NATO.   Then it was suggested that Russia will insist Ukraine become officially neutral like Austria and Sweden.  Which would allow Ukraine to be both independent and to maintain its own military.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 16, 2022, 11:10:41 PM
Russia, Iran, China... these are ancient, huge countries. On some level it's natural for them to be powerful in their parts of the world. All have at some point flirted with freedom and open ness but ultimately that will probably be a decades if not centuries long process. Our approach of waiting for change overnight is not realistic.

RC- but that scenario is worth considering.


One thing I learned today is that these people going to Ukraine to fight are not covered by Geneva Conventions. If they are captured they will probably shot


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 16, 2022, 11:27:47 PM
I'm still hoping for the removal of Putin - either into forced retirement, a la Khrushchev, or instantaneous lead poisoning, a la Larentvia Beria.

Lavrentiy Beria was shot.   :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on March 17, 2022, 06:21:46 AM
That's instantaneous lead poisoning.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 17, 2022, 08:18:50 AM
Nata is posting and fed the pigeons again. I was worried about them.

My Russian FB friend hasn't posted in a couple of days, no idea why.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 17, 2022, 03:31:42 PM
That's instantaneous lead poisoning.

Yes.  And so many were poisoned properly, hence my clarification.  I actually looked him up to confirm what I'd thought.  "Lead poisoning". 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 18, 2022, 08:51:06 AM
Nata still posting, still feeding pigeons. Russians still shelling residential areas.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 18, 2022, 08:59:28 AM
Shelling maternity wards and apartment buildings.
Makes me wanna cry.

http://youtu.be/ek6Le_mWNzE (http://youtu.be/ek6Le_mWNzE)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on March 18, 2022, 11:43:39 AM
And compared to what will come if this goes on, things haven't even STARTED to get nasty yet.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 19, 2022, 09:29:25 AM
Nata still posting, still feeding pigeons. She posted pictures of her neighborhood today, undamaged but the streets are all eerily empty.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 19, 2022, 10:41:06 AM
And compared to what will come if this goes on, things haven't even STARTED to get nasty yet.

Sadly I have to agree with that.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 20, 2022, 10:47:07 AM
Nata's still posting, still feeding pigeons in an empty park.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 20, 2022, 01:32:18 PM
all the "moderates" I follow on twitter are screaming for World War 3 while the extremists like Marjorie taylor Green and Ilhan Omar are urging caution and restraint


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 21, 2022, 08:07:05 AM
Nata is still posting, still feeding pigeons. Posted some pictures of empty streets, no damage near her. Reposted this from a friend:

(https://video.ilriformista.it/public/uploads/2022/03/Schermata-2022-03-21-alle-08.57.41.png)

It was a "sports complex" where the poster used to swim.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 22, 2022, 08:31:04 AM
My Russian friend is against the war but seems worried that the rest of the world is trying to "cancel" Russian culture. (Which is a rare Putin talking point he agrees with.) I tried to reassure him that Americans, at least, are not against Russian people or culture, we sympathize with the Russian people and strictly blame the current situation on Putin.

[Edit: it turns out he wasn't echoing Putin, he was responding to an article by an expatriate film critic who suggested "canceling" Russian culture).

Nata, meanwhile, is staying inside (there's a curfew in Kyiv) and seems in good spirits, all things considered.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 23, 2022, 08:11:18 AM
Nata still posting, still feeding pigeons. The counteroffensive seems to have temporarily taken some of the heat off.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 23, 2022, 11:54:31 AM
This is inspiring-
The cellist.

http://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-23-22/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-23-22/index.html)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 23, 2022, 10:37:57 PM
I've had it with people talking about WW3 and nukes. sign the peace deal or whatever already


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 24, 2022, 12:35:39 AM
I've had it with people talking about WW3 and nukes. sign the peace deal or whatever already

" or whatever"
If you can figure out "whatever".  What peace deal they should sign? Where is this deal? Please, let the world know.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 24, 2022, 10:19:00 AM
"If Russia yields, it will probably yield to a provisional peace. Putin does not seem capable of learning from his mistakes. Yet a provisional peace that preserves Zelensky’s government, brings about a lasting cease-fire, and does not permanently infringe on Ukraine’s independence, sovereignty, and autonomy (as Kyiv defines the terms) may be attainable. As unjust as it would be, it is preferable to all the actual alternatives." Best case scenario, probably the likeliest as well.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-03-23/what-if-russia-makes-deal (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-03-23/what-if-russia-makes-deal)

Nata posted some pictures of her neighborhood, deserted but no damage visible anywhere.



Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 25, 2022, 09:11:25 AM
Nata's still feeding pigeons. The Ukrainians have driven back the Russians from the outskirts of Kyiv temporarily. They're so far back on their heels they're not even shelling the city right now.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 26, 2022, 07:35:28 PM
Nata still posting and feeding pigeons. Incredibly, it seems that the Russians may be abandoning Kyiv and moving their forces to the east! She may have dodged a missile!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 26, 2022, 07:38:50 PM
I hope the best for her.  :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 26, 2022, 07:59:16 PM
Putin says he's still committed to liberating everything east of the Dnieper River...


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 26, 2022, 10:46:30 PM
Rev - how do you know this woman? just curious


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 27, 2022, 11:33:23 AM
Met her on social media decades ago (before Facebook was a thing.) Then her mother, who's been dead for a few years, also contacted me and wrote a few articles for my site. We've never met in person but we've exchanged gifts through the mail, going on 20 years now. I wanted to come see her or for her to come see me but in the early days she had trouble obtaining a visa, then it became an issue of cost or convenience, then she got married.

We were both quite depressed when we began corresponding and by the time we stopped we were both recovered.

She was sure/terrified of a Russian invasion the whole twenty years.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 27, 2022, 01:38:13 PM
Met her on social media decades ago (before Facebook was a thing.) Then her mother, who's been dead for a few years, also contacted me and wrote a few articles for my site. We've never met in person but we've exchanged gifts through the mail, going on 20 years now. I wanted to come see her or for her to come see me but in the early days she had trouble obtaining a visa, then it became an issue of cost or convenience, then she got married.

We were both quite depressed when we began corresponding and by the time we stopped we were both recovered.

She was sure/terrified of a Russian invasion the whole twenty years.

God bless her and her family. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 27, 2022, 04:36:55 PM
Putin says he's still committed to liberating everything east of the Dnieper River...

"liberating"?  :question:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 27, 2022, 04:59:01 PM
Putin says he's still committed to liberating everything east of the Dnieper River...

"liberating"?  :question:
That's his word for it, and the media dare not misquote him.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 27, 2022, 05:03:58 PM
What Putin says and does should be in the media, but I wouldn't parrot it.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 27, 2022, 07:52:35 PM
Eh,
Some guys on Facebook who get their nooz from Al Jazeera instead of where everybody else is getting it tried to throw The Azov Battalion in everybody's face this morning....

Basically, Russia dropped their own insurgents, troublemakers & terrorists into Georgia, Crimea, & the Donbas region, & when the Ukraine started their own volunteer antiterrorism unit, Putin had no trouble turning it into a cute little antinazification narrative that looks good on Al Jazeera....

This is what I've looked up so far....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-azov-battalion-putin-premise-war-vs-nazis/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-azov-battalion-putin-premise-war-vs-nazis/)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 27, 2022, 10:10:12 PM
^ uhhh I don't think theres any question of the Azov battalion and their political leanings.



Biden has hinted, actually outright said, that the US goal is regime change in Russia. What do they think would succeed Putin? His official successor is someone he hand picked and anyone who wins an election will be a lot like him or worse. and it certainly wouldn't be Alex Navalny, the NATO choice


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 27, 2022, 10:47:15 PM
^I only heard of this today, Didn't know what a political mess the Ukraine was until a week ago....^
Maybe that's why Putin thought this would be a cake walk....

^And if Biden's gonna talk the talk, he should let Poland give migs to the Ukraine.^


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on March 27, 2022, 11:10:07 PM
Biden only said what most people are thinking.
Putin is a mad dog who needs to be put down.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 12:40:45 AM
Not "most people" in russia, israel, China, India, Iran or any of the other countries still trading with Russia. The west isn't calling the shots anymore


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on March 28, 2022, 06:44:26 AM
They might not say it, but do you really think any of them support this disastrous war, in the name of nothing but naked conquest?
I don't think many people would grieve if Putin got hit by a bus right now.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 28, 2022, 07:57:15 AM
They might not say it, but do you really think any of them support this disastrous war, in the name of nothing but naked conquest?
I don't think many people would grieve if Putin got hit by a bus right now.

People would be dancing in the streets. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 28, 2022, 09:02:50 AM
Not "most people" in russia, israel, China, India, Iran or any of the other countries still trading with Russia. The west isn't calling the shots anymore

They just want to keep trading because they see an opportunity for war profiteering with the West temporarily withdrawing and Russia needing to find emergency new markets to buy and sell. They don't give a s**t about Putin or Russia or Ukraine, just rubles

But look at the chart midway down this article: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-24/ukraine-war-has-russia-s-putin-xi-jinping-exposing-capitalism-s-great-illusion (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-24/ukraine-war-has-russia-s-putin-xi-jinping-exposing-capitalism-s-great-illusion)

If Russia, China and India formed an exclusive trading block it would only be 25% of the world's GDP. Doesn't sound like a great deal. China needs US markets, they won't go too far.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 28, 2022, 12:44:11 PM
If something happened to Putin, he'd be replaced by somebody just like him.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 28, 2022, 12:50:29 PM
^ I don't think so. The guys an evil political dinosaur.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 28, 2022, 01:04:54 PM
Remember, this has been going on since before Putin, and none of this would be going on without party approval.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 28, 2022, 01:13:01 PM
 ^ What party approval?  :question: It's not a party- it's a gang.

Russia is a sinking boat. I think theirs a good chance of a Russian revolution. It's not like it hasn't happened in recent times.  There are many more citizens against Putin than are for him.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 28, 2022, 01:18:28 PM
If something happened to Putin, he'd be replaced by somebody just like him.

Hitler wasn't, Stalin wasn't, Horohito wasn't, Mao wasn't, Castro wasn't, Marcos wasn't, Hussein wasn't. Some may have been succeeded by bad leaders, but none were as bad as the historically bad person they replaced.

The Kims in North Korea all seem equally bad, and Roman emperors had bad stretches, though.

Doesn't seem possible Putin could be replaced by someone worse; equally bad is the worst case scenario.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 02:13:45 PM
Quote
If something happened to Putin, he'd be replaced by somebody just like him.

or worse.

RC
Quote
I don't think so. The guys an evil political dinosaur.

he's hugely popular. people HERE don't like him, but thats not where he is!

indiana
Quote
They might not say it, but do you really think any of them support this disastrous war, in the name of nothing but naked conquest?

they might not say it but you can read their minds. In the rest of the world this war is seen as Putin vs NATO not any "naked conquest"



Did we all learn nothing from Iraq? All the people in Russia really want to be just like us and want trans beauty pageants in elementary schools. And that big mean evil dictators just do stuff for no reason and their people go along with it. snap out of it!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 28, 2022, 02:14:15 PM
If something happened to Putin, he'd be replaced by somebody just like him.
...Hitler wasn't, Stalin wasn't, Horohito wasn't, Mao wasn't, Castro wasn't, Marcos wasn't, Hussein wasn't. Some may have been succeeded by bad leaders, but none were as bad as the historically bad person they replaced.  The Kims in North Korea all seem equally bad...

Right on!  


and Roman emperors had bad stretches, though...

And don't forget the "Five Good Emperors" ...  :smile:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 28, 2022, 02:16:31 PM
Quote
If something happened to Putin, he'd be replaced by somebody just like him.

or worse.

RC
Quote
I don't think so. The guys an evil political dinosaur.

he's hugely popular. people HERE don't like him, but thats not where he is!
 {/quote]




Not just HERE- all over the world.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 02:18:07 PM
someone called "Chef Zombie' just downvoted me for going against the war fervor here


chefzombie    lester1/2jr    -    dream on, lol!


couldn't bring herself to actually debate the point in the thread (thank you, RC)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 02:20:21 PM
RC - here is a map of countries who have sanctions on russia


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FO9HuePXwAMFMaj?format=jpg&name=large)

the whole world?




Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on March 28, 2022, 02:38:27 PM
One needs merely look up history to learn that Russia has been out to reclaim it's old territories since the late 1990's...
They've been poisoning escaped KGB Agents & political opposition they don't like & rigging elections just as long....
When I was at WRIR (Started in 2006), stories about locking up people & rock groups over censorship was a popular topic....

Ever since Yeltsin, the hardline communists have been doing everything they can to get it all back.....
Unless you can wipe out an ideology held by a large enough minority of elitists, this won't end with Putin.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 28, 2022, 02:47:00 PM
(https://gdb.voanews.com/01bd0000-0aff-0242-c65b-08d9fd1b1991_w776_r0.png)

Maybe they didn't enact sanctions (maybe they can't afford the economic hit), but most voted to condemn the invasion.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 02:56:58 PM
thats true. good point


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 28, 2022, 03:22:38 PM
someone called "Chef Zombie' just downvoted me for going against the war fervor here

chefzombie    lester1/2jr    -    dream on, lol!

couldn't bring herself to actually debate the point in the thread (thank you, RC)

It's just tracks in the snow...  :smile:  I know you don't care.   :thumbup: 

Poo Tin is popular (and not) in Russia, but he is despised everywhere.  That does not mean that those that hate and are hated are too proud to take money.   :thumbdown:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 09:35:16 PM
I don't get it. He seems to be doing a decent job of running Russia and there's no iron curtain. People are free to leave as they please and they don't practice Marxist economics.  People had the same thing with Saddam Hussein, they just had to get rid of him and what happened: a 10/10 multi trillion dollar disaster.

It should never have come to this. Why did they keep expanding NATO when they knew it would antagonize him? as always its the little people who suffer for the policy decisions of those who don't have to feel the consequences.



Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 28, 2022, 09:44:18 PM
^ Are you insane?  :question:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 09:47:51 PM
because my life doesn't revolve around washington's concerns? This country is falling apart but they send 15 billion to ukraine. There were 800 homicides in Chicago in 2021 maybe we should work that out first


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 28, 2022, 09:55:15 PM
^ No- because you sound insane!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 09:58:40 PM
he discussed the reason for invading Ukraine in his initial speech, which is on the first page of this thread actually

Quote
President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Citizens of Russia, friends,

I consider it necessary today to speak again about the tragic events in Donbass and the key aspects of ensuring the security of Russia.

I will begin with what I said in my address on February 21, 2022. I spoke about our biggest concerns and worries, and about the fundamental threats which irresponsible Western politicians created for Russia consistently, rudely and unceremoniously from year to year. I am referring to the eastward expansion of NATO, which is moving its military infrastructure ever closer to the Russian border.

It is a fact that over the past 30 years we have been patiently trying to come to an agreement with the leading NATO countries regarding the principles of equal and indivisible security in Europe. In response to our proposals, we invariably faced either cynical deception and lies or attempts at pressure and blackmail, while the North Atlantic alliance continued to expand despite our protests and concerns. Its military machine is moving and, as I said, is approaching our very border.

.... [later]

Despite all that, in December 2021, we made yet another attempt to reach agreement with the United States and its allies on the principles of European security and NATO’s non-expansion. Our efforts were in vain. The United States has not changed its position. It does not believe it necessary to agree with Russia on a matter that is critical for us. The United States is pursuing its own objectives,


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 28, 2022, 10:04:02 PM
If Putin is such a great guy- why did he attack Ukraine? Why did he try to interfere with the elections? Why does he have people who speak against him killed?
Putin's a piece of s**t.

Your praise of Putin sounds insane.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 28, 2022, 10:10:29 PM
Putin does a decent job of running Russia if you don't care about his shutting down the free press, imprisoning political enemies, poisoning and otherwise murdering his political enemies, invading his neighbors, installing puppet governments in other countries, running a propaganda empire, or supporting Syria's genocidal war.  Jeez, if an American leader did those things I hope you'd be OPPOSED to him.

Surely you are trolling?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 10:32:34 PM
Assad is fighting Al Qaeda like we are. and fighting the extermination of Middle Eastern Christians.

"invading his neighbors" you sound like a 2003 neoconservative. again, you need to learn the lessons of Iraq. The New World Order is the problem not the alleged "bad actors"


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 28, 2022, 10:38:55 PM
 ^ You are insane.  :bluesad:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 28, 2022, 10:43:18 PM
if the Iraq war were to happen again you guys would support it. because "everyone" hates saddam hussein


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 29, 2022, 06:54:53 AM
...It should never have come to this. Why did they keep expanding NATO when they knew it would antagonize him? as always its the little people who suffer for the policy decisions of those who don't have to feel the consequences.
 

^ You are insane.  :bluesad:

No he's not.  He's right. 


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2022, 07:59:46 AM
Possibly because at the time they joined Russia (under both Putin and Yeltsin), had asked about joining NATO. The door was opened for them to explore further, but they decided not to pursue it and because eventually those Eastern European countries were aware that if they didn't seek protection, sooner or later someone would get into power and want to get them back under Russia's banner. Either way they had no reason not to join and every reason to want to.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 29, 2022, 08:40:55 AM
Assad is fighting Al Qaeda like we are. and fighting the extermination of Middle Eastern Christians.

"invading his neighbors" you sound like a 2003 neoconservative. again, you need to learn the lessons of Iraq. The New World Order is the problem not the alleged "bad actors"

You ignore all the enemies Putin imprisons and murders in your praise for him as a great and honorable leader who never ever lies. I think you would make a more persuasive case if you didn't sound like a huge fan of this dictator. You could certainly make a case for non-intervention without praising him---even while condemning him. I still think that if an American president did what Putin does I think you would be apoplectic.

Anyone, neoconservative or not, can condemn "invading his neighbors." I don't really know what your political philosophy is when invading sovereign nations is a neutral act not worthy of condemnation. Might makes right, I guess.

My lessons from Iraq are the first invasion to liberate Kuwait was justified, the second one (2003) was an unjustified disastrous mistake and had nothing to do with an invasion of a neighbor.

If a bomb falls on Nata's apartment building and kills her I'll blame Putin, not the "New World Order." She wanted Ukraine to join NATO precisely so what is happening now wouldn't happen.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 29, 2022, 01:58:50 PM
here is the historical GDP of recent Russia

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alexander-Lukin-2/publication/326972728/figure/fig1/AS:658348458385408@1533973912156/Russias-GDP-1989-2016-in-billions-of-US-dollars-Source-World-Bank.png)


https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Russias-GDP-1989-2016-in-billions-of-US-dollars-Source-World-Bank_fig1_326972728 (https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Russias-GDP-1989-2016-in-billions-of-US-dollars-Source-World-Bank_fig1_326972728)


Putins first term began in 2000. note the direction of the graph and this is without the other soviet states anymore.

Quote
I still think that if an American president did what Putin does I think you would be apoplectic.

I absolutely would. What is the significance of that?

The invasion of Iraq was wrong that doesn't mean I wanted to live in Iraq under Saddam Hussein or anyone.


Alex -
Quote
Either way they had no reason not to join and every reason to want to.

and look where we are now. was it worth it? The Earth is laid out the way it is. Russia is a huge powerful country I am certainly glad we aren't next to them but the US and NATO aren't God. The potential of Eastern European leaders being corrupt is not a good reason for the entire world to await nuclear war. I feel bad for Hong Kong that they are now having to have China take over their country. I love their capitalist ethos and amazing kung fu films which will now be censored in some fashion I'm sure, but China has 1.4 billion people and an a***ole president. This is how its going to go for a while


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 29, 2022, 02:35:17 PM


Quote
I still think that if an American president did what Putin does I think you would be apoplectic.

I absolutely would. What is the significance of that?


The significance is you say this brutal dictator has done a decent job running Russia, accept every one of his statements at face value, and cast all the blame for the conflict on the West. You probably don't realize it, but you come across like a big Putin fan, like Tucker Carlson or Donald Trump. I don't believe you really are, but I think your rhetoric is hurting your own case.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 29, 2022, 03:12:05 PM
I'm quite a bit like Tucker Carlson. Is that bad? I also like Ilhan omar

Would also point out that Dmitri Medvedev was president from 2008-2012, elected largely because he kept the graph going in the right direction.

I don't accept any poltician's statement at face value. The idea that Nato expansion would antagonize Russia goes back to the very end of the cold war long before putin's terms


Quote
George Kennan on NATO Expansion

Excerpt from George F. Kennan, “A Fateful Error,” New York Times, 05 Feb 1997

“Why, with all the hopeful possibilities engendered by the end of the Cold War, should East-West relations become centered on the question of who would be allied with whom and, by implication, against whom in some fanciful, totally unforeseeable and most improbable future military conflict?”

luntly stated…expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-Cold War era. Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking … ”

https://comw.org/pda/george-kennan-on-nato-expansion/




Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2022, 03:25:09 PM
I'd say for the countries not being invaded by Russia hell yes it was worth it. I agree, Russia knows that it has a much bigger army. It also knows that NATO's forces are not big enough to threaten it in an invasion. Putin certainly wasn't worried about eastern expansion when he was considering having Russia join it himself.

Then again, as I said before, the whole eastern expansion thing is just a bulls**t excuse for him to do what he was going to do anyway. Shame you are suckered in by it.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 29, 2022, 03:39:18 PM
again, the idea that NATO expansion would antagonize Russia pre dates Putin. see above


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2022, 03:40:15 PM
And yet he wanted to join. As did his predessor.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 29, 2022, 03:46:35 PM
https://www.nato.int/nrc-website/en/about/index.html (https://www.nato.int/nrc-website/en/about/index.html) the two entities do work together quite a bit, outside of the current conflict obviously


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 29, 2022, 03:50:18 PM
I'm quite a bit like Tucker Carlson.







That explains a lot   :lookingup:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: El Misfit on March 29, 2022, 03:54:42 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html)
Good f**king lord what a brain dead move to do.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2022, 04:02:49 PM
And yet Russia claims we ignore them despite that cooperation.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 30, 2022, 10:29:43 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html)
Good f**king lord what a brain dead move to do.

I reckon that would be the first city they take, being it's f**kING EMPTY!!!!  :buggedout:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: El Misfit on March 30, 2022, 02:30:36 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html)
Good f**king lord what a brain dead move to do.

I reckon that would be the first city they take, being it's f**kING EMPTY!!!!  :buggedout:
Driving through one of the most radioactive areas on every without radiation protection....yeah they're good as dead.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on March 30, 2022, 02:36:21 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html)
Good f**king lord what a brain dead move to do.

I reckon that would be the first city they take, being it's f**kING EMPTY!!!!  :buggedout:
Driving through one of the most radioactive areas on every without radiation protection....yeah they're good as dead.

Soviet tactical doctrine said that if it came to a war with NATO and tactical (battlefield) nuclear weapons were used, they would simply march Warsaw Pact forces through the ruins and have them fight until they died of radiation poisoning.

I guess nothing has changed there then.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on March 30, 2022, 06:46:01 PM
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJplFVLQ85M#)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: El Misfit on March 30, 2022, 06:58:55 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-165419388.html)
Good f**king lord what a brain dead move to do.

I reckon that would be the first city they take, being it's f**kING EMPTY!!!!  :buggedout:
Driving through one of the most radioactive areas on every without radiation protection....yeah they're good as dead.

Soviet tactical doctrine said that if it came to a war with NATO and tactical (battlefield) nuclear weapons were used, they would simply march Warsaw Pact forces through the ruins and have them fight until they died of radiation poisoning.

I guess nothing has changed there then.
You would think after Chernobyl that they would redo that doctrine....but as we see with their military being towed away by tractors that they don't have the best equipment outside the AK47.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 30, 2022, 07:16:43 PM
Nobody's in Chernobyl. That's why Putin choose that city as a foothold. He doesn't care if his own soldiers die.
He doesn't care who dies. That's why I'm thinking he may use a nuke. Because he's that kind of a narcissist.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Jim H on March 30, 2022, 08:13:36 PM
Nobody's in Chernobyl. That's why Putin choose that city as a foothold. He doesn't care if his own soldiers die.
He doesn't care who dies. That's why I'm thinking he may use a nuke. Because he's that kind of a narcissist.


I think he's willing to, but I don't think he will as long as his own position is secure since he knows it would mean the end of his ambitions for Russia, and his own life most likely.  That is, he won't use nukes to win in Ukraine, but if NATO started to invade Russia itself, certainly on the table.  Basically, I do think he's essentially rational, just surrounded by yes-men and also evil, uncaring about the deaths of innocents in the way of his goals.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on March 30, 2022, 09:40:59 PM
I just read that seven busloads of Russian soldiers suffering from acute radiation sickness were taken to medical facilities in Belarus.
They had been ordered to dig trenches in the forest near the Chernobyl power plant.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 30, 2022, 11:07:31 PM
the source for this is a facebook post. casting doubt because I'm pretty sure russians would understand about Chernobyl/ radiation


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on March 30, 2022, 11:20:31 PM
the source for this is a facebook post. casting doubt because I'm pretty sure russians would understand about Chernobyl/ radiation

Perhaps these BOYS had no idea that they were near Chernobyl.  Perhaps they were afraid to disobey orders.  Perhaps it was just stupid army intelligence (dig trenches).  Duh. 
People no longer need the TV news to know what's happening in the world, but they do need discernment. 
I do believe RC is correct that BED PAN er, POO TIN does not care who dies.   


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 30, 2022, 11:51:27 PM
the source for this is a facebook post. casting doubt because I'm pretty sure russians would understand about Chernobyl/ radiation

They took the city a month ago, genius.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/25/1083210202/russia-chernobyl-ukraine (https://www.npr.org/2022/02/25/1083210202/russia-chernobyl-ukraine)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on March 31, 2022, 12:35:06 AM
Russia have , for strategic purposes, pulled out of chernobyl, so the obvious conspiracy theory is they are leaving because they have developed cancer. Why would they dig trenches if there were no pp?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on March 31, 2022, 12:38:29 AM
^ They pulled out of Chernobyl, Wile E., because nothings  there.



Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: El Misfit on March 31, 2022, 04:24:13 AM
Supposedly they pulled out after getting some nuclear material to make a dirty bomb.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Newt on March 31, 2022, 06:53:27 AM
Some brilliance from Twitter:

Andrej
@AndrejNkv
I am the very model of a Russian Major General
My standing in the battlefield is growing quite untenable
My forces, though equipped and given orders unequivocal
Did not expect the fight to be remotely this reciprocal

I used to have a tank brigade but now I have lost several
My fresh assaults are faltering with battleplans extemporal
I can't recover vehicles but farmers in a tractor can
It's all becoming rather reminiscent of Afghanistan

My ordnance is the best but only half my missiles make it there
I would have thought by now that we would be controllers of the air
But at the rate the snipers work my time here is ephemeral
I am the very model of a Russian Major General


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on March 31, 2022, 08:12:44 AM
The only non-paywall article I can find about Russian soldiers suffering radiation sickness after digging trenches in Chernobyl is skeptical.

https://www.newsweek.com/chernobyl-russia-troops-ukraine-yemelianenko-nuclear-1693714 (https://www.newsweek.com/chernobyl-russia-troops-ukraine-yemelianenko-nuclear-1693714)

I'm a complete layman, but this doesn't match my understanding of radiation in Chernobyl, either. You're exposed to high levels of background radiation and you develop cancer years later, you don't get sick immediately.

In good news, it looks like Putin appears to have temporarily abandoned his plans to take Kyiv. My uneducated guess is he'll focus on securing the East and some land connection to Crimea and then declare victory to save face. But capturing Mariupol will be brutal. 10,000 civilian deaths and the city mostly reduced to rubble isn't impossible to imagine.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Trevor on March 31, 2022, 08:32:08 AM
Some brilliance from Twitter:

Andrej
@AndrejNkv
I am the very model of a Russian Major General
My standing in the battlefield is growing quite untenable
My forces, though equipped and given orders unequivocal
Did not expect the fight to be remotely this reciprocal

I used to have a tank brigade but now I have lost several
My fresh assaults are faltering with battleplans extemporal
I can't recover vehicles but farmers in a tractor can
It's all becoming rather reminiscent of Afghanistan

My ordnance is the best but only half my missiles make it there
I would have thought by now that we would be controllers of the air
But at the rate the snipers work my time here is ephemeral
I am the very model of a Russian Major General


Wow: such true words from a soldier on the front line instead of a General sending brave soldiers ahead of himself.

I am on Twitter as well: @ZombieT14.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: El Misfit on March 31, 2022, 02:09:21 PM
The only non-paywall article I can find about Russian soldiers suffering radiation sickness after digging trenches in Chernobyl is skeptical.

https://www.newsweek.com/chernobyl-russia-troops-ukraine-yemelianenko-nuclear-1693714 (https://www.newsweek.com/chernobyl-russia-troops-ukraine-yemelianenko-nuclear-1693714)

I'm a complete layman, but this doesn't match my understanding of radiation in Chernobyl, either. You're exposed to high levels of background radiation and you develop cancer years later, you don't get sick immediately.

In good news, it looks like Putin appears to have temporarily abandoned his plans to take Kyiv. My uneducated guess is he'll focus on securing the East and some land connection to Crimea and then declare victory to save face. But capturing Mariupol will be brutal. 10,000 civilian deaths and the city mostly reduced to rubble isn't impossible to imagine.
Orphan sources can speed up radiation sickness, see Goiâna Incident, Tammiku Caesium incident,  Lia Radiological Accident, so it is possible that the troops did get nuclear material and were transporting it without it being covered/sealed.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on April 01, 2022, 08:09:40 AM
Nata posts more pictures of the streets of Kiev, and it looks like more people are out and about. Before the streets were always totally deserted. There is a lot of graffiti, I don't know if it was there before but I'm guessing since she took pictures of it it's new, probably anti-Russian stuff. The mood seems optimistic.

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277663556_10159326196299091_8523068912204304896_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=qs2SXGaUZoMAX-LFGaL&tn=eoYOeHuy1nZBQ0xA&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-X-Kw6Xkh0k0NV9iCWuk-yC_BuNjVlB65u_fhX_sMgtQ&oe=624CDD20)

Meanwhile fighting continues on the outskirts of town. "The risk of dying (in Kyiv) is pretty high, and that's why my advice to anyone who wants to come back is: Please, take a little bit more time," Mayor Vitaliy Klitschko said, issuing a warning to residents who have fled the capital. (https://news.yahoo.com/kyiv-mayor-says-big-battles-122029214.html)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on April 01, 2022, 02:09:07 PM
misfit - Russia has tons of conventional weapons. They have no reason to make or use a dirty bomb


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on April 05, 2022, 08:27:03 AM
Nata still doing well. Posted pictures of the Bucha massacres. Too grotesque for me to repost, nothing you can't find with a Google search.

I am a little worried about my Russian friend because he posted saying that Russia was responsible for the killings in Bucha. This is illegal under Putin's regime. He had been careful not to call it a war previously (which is also illegal).

This guy posted a YouTube video from inside Kiev.

https://youtu.be/DqIF2U4g7H8

Special operation is hell.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on April 09, 2022, 03:05:39 PM
Rather surprised by this, but our generally useless leader actually visited Ukraine in person. It would give me some respect for him if he hadn't done so much other stupid s**t.

Anyway:

https://twitter.com/defencehq


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on April 10, 2022, 01:52:30 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPqxXSOXsAUuqck?format=jpg&name=900x900)

this is the unit that did the Bucha massacre

the guy second from the left looks kind of like Putin even though they are more overtly Asian in appearance


the Commander of the unit

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPcj1kGWQAgH5gX?format=jpg&name=medium)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on April 29, 2022, 06:56:37 AM
Rev, how is your friend doing now? Hoping things have calmed down in Kyiv with the Russian withdrawal and redeployment.

Sadly (but not unexpectedly), I've been told that for reasons directly connected to my job I can't host a Ukrainian refugee, but we are still doing what we can to help out, sending over medical supplies and whatnot.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on April 29, 2022, 07:47:01 AM
Rev, how is your friend doing now? Hoping things have calmed down in Kyiv with the Russian withdrawal and redeployment.

Sadly (but not unexpectedly), I've been told that for reasons directly connected to my job I can't host a Ukrainian refugee, but we are still doing what we can to help out, sending over medical supplies and whatnot.

Since the Russians withdrew and they stopped bombing nightly, things appear to have returned to more of a normal routine. People are getting out more and socializing. Of course, every now and then they lob a few missiles her way.  :bluesad:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Trevor on May 02, 2022, 04:10:39 PM
One of our idiotic politicians here has now decided to go to the Ukraine on a "fact finding mission" 😳🤧💩😝


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: claws on May 02, 2022, 04:24:03 PM
and the 2022 Darwin Award goes to ...


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 02, 2022, 04:27:05 PM
I didn't read the article, but I saw something about Angelina Jolie visiting and being caught up in an air raid.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Newt on May 02, 2022, 05:42:26 PM
One of our idiotic politicians here has now decided to go to the Ukraine on a "fact finding mission" 😳🤧💩😝
I think the word is "gek"?  (Is "bossies" offensive?)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Trevor on May 03, 2022, 01:51:28 AM
and the 2022 Darwin Award goes to ...

 :teddyr: :teddyr:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Trevor on May 03, 2022, 01:53:09 AM
One of our idiotic politicians here has now decided to go to the Ukraine on a "fact finding mission" 😳🤧💩😝
I think the word is "gek"?  (Is "bossies" offensive?)


Gek is right: it means mad or crazy, while bossies [bushies] dates back to the war in Angola: many veterans of that war suffer the bush curse which is akin to PTSD.

For context, this is the idiot politician:

https://ewn.co.za/2022/05/02/what-are-you-doing-there-safricans-question-why-steenhuisen-visiting-ukraine (https://ewn.co.za/2022/05/02/what-are-you-doing-there-safricans-question-why-steenhuisen-visiting-ukraine)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 17, 2022, 03:20:15 PM
My favourite moment is about the 47 seconds mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tsyBj-lMj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tsyBj-lMj8)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on May 17, 2022, 04:36:18 PM
My favourite moment is about the 47 seconds mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tsyBj-lMj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tsyBj-lMj8)

Y'mean the little dancing poo tin?  Hilarious.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 17, 2022, 11:21:49 PM
interesting perspective from Dutch passenger today. He ultimately blamed Putin for the war, but pointed out that NATO really has nothing to gain by having Ukraine as a member. European take on them is mostly that they are incredibly corrupt.

He was very critical of biden, Macron, and other leaders who couldn't stop the clearly avoidable conflict  "this is what we pay them for" are they really world LEADERS if they can't rise to the occasion on such... occasions?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 18, 2022, 01:13:50 AM
I agree with them being corrupt, but if your passenger can't see the value in having a country that is kicking Russia's arse in an alliance that was set up to basically defend against that same country, then there really is no hope for him.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on May 18, 2022, 07:46:33 AM
I don't buy your passenger's premise that the conflict was "clearly avoidable."


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 18, 2022, 01:29:36 PM
Quote
kicking Russia's arse
I don't know about that


https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-troops-evacuate-mariupol-ceding-control-russia-2022-05-17/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-troops-evacuate-mariupol-ceding-control-russia-2022-05-17/)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on May 18, 2022, 01:39:56 PM
We're also running out of those javelin missiles, as well as stinger missiles.....
Lockheed Martin says it will take at least two years to resupply the number of javelins that have been used in Ukraine, and the stingers they've been using haven't been made in over a decade & the components are no longer available....


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 18, 2022, 01:57:24 PM
PMSL, did you actually read that article before posting it?

With lines like
Quote
More than 250 Ukrainian fighters surrendered to Russian forces at the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol after weeks of desperate resistance, bringing an end to the most devastating siege of Russia's war in Ukraine and allowing President Vladimir Putin to claim a rare victory in his faltering campaign.

(Just so you know, capturing 250 troops, is not really a big deal in this size of a war).

Quote
Even as the Kremlin prepares to take full control of the ruins of Mariupol, it faces the growing prospect of defeat in its bid to conquer all of Ukraine's eastern Donbas because its badly mauled forces lack the manpower for significant advances

A few thousand defenders held up 5 full combat units for how long? Surrounded with no fresh supplies, no hope of reinforcement, defending a steelworks and holding up 5 full Russian combat units, tying up manpower the Russians badly need elsewhere. If you want to know what kind of effect a defeat like that can have, well I'll assume you are familiar with the story of the Alamo. I am willing to bet that the defenders of that plant will become legends in their country for holding out for so long against those odds.

Thanks for posting an article that backs me up on the Ukrainians kicking Russia's arse though. Not that I needed it, but thanks anyway.

In more good news for Ukrainian forces, they have pushed Russian forces outside of their country and reached the Russian border. This war has a long way to go and everything could still all change. Even if Ukrainian forces still keep winning, they will still experience setbacks like Mariupol but it is nice to see the good guys winning at the moment.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 18, 2022, 02:09:22 PM
Quote
a rare victory
Quote

A rare victory



also https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-11/russian-ruble-surpasses-brazilian-real-as-world-s-best-currency (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-11/russian-ruble-surpasses-brazilian-real-as-world-s-best-currency)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 18, 2022, 02:18:09 PM
Quote
a rare victory
Quote

A rare victory

Whereas Ukrainian forces are having many victories. Ergo, they are kicking Russia's arse.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 18, 2022, 02:19:09 PM
thats true ukraine won the Eurovision song contest


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 18, 2022, 02:21:21 PM
Yup, just one of many ways and places they are winning in. Not to be unexpected when you are fighting a regime as corrupt as Russia though.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 18, 2022, 02:33:58 PM
Oh gods, my sides are hurting so much from laughing at Russia being able to take a single building complex being viewed as a victory. If they keep winning like that they will be lucky to hold onto the Crimea never mind making progress. That is the kind of performance I'd love to see in any nation I go to war against.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 18, 2022, 02:36:11 PM
"russia wins"

anti russia guy "this is good. no its great. aahh yes yes!!!!!"



Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 18, 2022, 02:37:24 PM
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pyrrhicvictory.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pyrrhicvictory.asp)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 18, 2022, 03:00:18 PM
Russias 'victories':

https://eutoday.net/news/politics/2022/putins-war-efforts-stalling-as-russian-forces-run-out-of-combat-ready-reserves (https://eutoday.net/news/politics/2022/putins-war-efforts-stalling-as-russian-forces-run-out-of-combat-ready-reserves)

For some context, Russia was believed to have approx 2700 MBTs tanks at the start of the conflict. Many of its components for its military were manufactured in Ukraine, so funnily enough, they are having a hard time replacing their losses in several vital areas of military supplies.
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-war-military-equipment-losses/31847839.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-war-military-equipment-losses/31847839.html)

Yeah, if they keep winning that way, sooner or later they are going to run out of troops and equipment. It is a very basic military concept. You win wars by depleting the enemies' ability to fight, faster than they can deplete yours. If you want to take part in a debate about this, you really should learn something about how wars are fought and won and why what you call a victory will leave the Russian army depleted and exhausted (even more so than it currently is), if that is how they keep winning. But hey, you go ahead trying to trumpet what is a minor Russian victory into something major. "Oh no, the Russians took a factory. Whelp, I guess we better surrender, never mind that we are pushing them back on several fronts and have chased Russian units back into their own country and could even cross into Russian territory for a counter-invasion if we wanted."


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on May 18, 2022, 03:54:22 PM

anti russia guy



Isn't everyone here an anti-Russia guy? I thought you only didn't want us involved in the conflict in any way, not that you were actively rooting for Russia.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on May 18, 2022, 04:02:09 PM
"russia wins"

anti russia guy "this is good. no its great. aahh yes yes!!!!!"



So your a 'pro-russia' guy? Figures. Seems like folks with your mind set hate commies- but love Putin!
Who most certainly wants to bring back the USSR.
You cherry pick news to fit your belief system. What that system is- who knows.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 18, 2022, 04:38:27 PM
Doesn't everyone here agree with me?

Isn't that the correct opinion?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on May 18, 2022, 04:45:28 PM
Doesn't everyone here agree with me?

Isn't that the correct opinion?

No.
Now you're just trolling.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 18, 2022, 04:45:56 PM
I hate to point out the obvious, but if everyone agreed with you, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Also, I'd say I am more anti-putin personally than anti-Russian. It's a place I'd love to visit someday, although I don't see it happening any time soon.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 18, 2022, 06:23:59 PM
I was mimicking Rev Powell sorry that wasn't more clear


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 18, 2022, 10:20:48 PM
okay well some people view this as a good vs evil thing and others, me, view it as an avoidable conflict brought on by western arrogance. Thats basically it


rc -
Quote
Seems like folks with your mind set hate commies- but love Putin!

your side loves communism but hates Putin whats up with that?





Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on May 18, 2022, 10:36:34 PM
Doesn't everyone here agree with me?

Isn't that the correct opinion?

I'd love to agree with you Lester

What opinion are you inquiring about?   


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 18, 2022, 10:44:12 PM
who even knows at this point


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on May 19, 2022, 08:58:23 PM
I'm not kidding.  I'm not following this thread, though I looked back a page.   :question:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: RCMerchant on May 20, 2022, 07:22:12 AM
okay well some people view this as a good vs evil thing and others, me, view it as an avoidable conflict brought on by western arrogance. Thats basically it


rc -
Quote
Seems like folks with your mind set hate commies- but love Putin!

your side loves communism but hates Putin whats up with that?





My side? What side would that be?
Do you even know what 'communism' is?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 20, 2022, 07:54:16 AM
Turns out the fight there is still ongoing at the steelworks, so reports of a rare victory are, as yet a bit premature. Their command has issued an order for them to surrender though. 10 weeks under siege and counting.

Other reports suggest that Ukrainian forces may be taking limited scale strikes across the border at high-value military targets, including a helicopter attack and sabotage teams. I hope more Russian civilians don't end up paying the price for putin's arrogance.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 20, 2022, 02:23:40 PM
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/ukrainian-fighters-grease-bullets-against-chechens-with-pig-fat (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/ukrainian-fighters-grease-bullets-against-chechens-with-pig-fat)

"The National Guard of Ukraine has shared a video on its Twitter account that appears to show Azov fighters greasing bullets with pig fat, ostensibly to be used against against Muslim Chechens deployed to their country as Russia steps up its military assault on Ukraine."


pig fat and bullets paid for by you and me (if you're American)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 20, 2022, 03:08:05 PM
Meanwhile a one-year-old reported to have been raped by Russian soldiers has died.

https://www.businessinsider.com/1-year-old-died-rape-russian-soldiers-ukraine-ombudsman-said-2022-5?r=US&IR=T (https://www.businessinsider.com/1-year-old-died-rape-russian-soldiers-ukraine-ombudsman-said-2022-5?r=US&IR=T)

A Russian soldier being prosecuted for war crimes has confessed and begged for forgiveness from his victim's widow. This is the first war crime trial of the war.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61496428 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61496428)


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Jim H on May 20, 2022, 05:57:19 PM
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/ukrainian-fighters-grease-bullets-against-chechens-with-pig-fat (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/ukrainian-fighters-grease-bullets-against-chechens-with-pig-fat)

"The National Guard of Ukraine has shared a video on its Twitter account that appears to show Azov fighters greasing bullets with pig fat, ostensibly to be used against against Muslim Chechens deployed to their country as Russia steps up its military assault on Ukraine."


pig fat and bullets paid for by you and me (if you're American)

There's a lot of Chechens on the Ukraine side too.  Wonder how they feel about it.

But yeah, the Azov guys are, to put it mildly, lousy people, but I can't blame Ukraine for continuing to field them any more than I could Finland allying with the Nazis back in the day.  You take whoever you can get when Russia invades.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 20, 2022, 11:21:17 PM
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/ukrainian-fighters-grease-bullets-against-chechens-with-pig-fat (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/ukrainian-fighters-grease-bullets-against-chechens-with-pig-fat)

"The National Guard of Ukraine has shared a video on its Twitter account that appears to show Azov fighters greasing bullets with pig fat, ostensibly to be used against against Muslim Chechens deployed to their country as Russia steps up its military assault on Ukraine."


pig fat and bullets paid for by you and me (if you're American)

There's a lot of Chechens on the Ukraine side too.  Wonder how they feel about it.

But yeah, the Azov guys are, to put it mildly, lousy people, but I can't blame Ukraine for continuing to field them any more than I could Finland allying with the Nazis back in the day.  You take whoever you can get when Russia invades.

Indeed, and Russias invasion will make heroes out of them increasing their appeal. Putin's 'anti-nazification' is more likely to make things worse than better.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 20, 2022, 11:43:19 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTL7I3UXsAUb4gv?format=png&name=small)

all of the countries on this chart have more skin in the game than we do. the Eu's economy is bigger than ours whats going on here?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on May 21, 2022, 09:07:52 AM
([url]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTL7I3UXsAUb4gv?format=png&name=small[/url])

all of the countries on this chart have more skin in the game than we do. the Eu's economy is bigger than ours whats going on here?


Our economy and military dwarfs all those countries. Look at it by percentage of GDP instead:

(http://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/27331.jpeg)

Also, European countries are absorbing a greater blow from boycotts of Russian products. Still, it's true France and Germany, especially, should be doing more.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 21, 2022, 03:09:45 PM
Its a new kind of "proxy war" when one entity is furnishing  basically the entire military of one side of a conflict.

I can't help but think if our input was the same as these other entities we would have reached some sort of conclusion by now, a negotiated peace


Alex - "Insider could find no independent evidence for the claim." their source is the Ukrainian government which has no aversion to spinning tales. Obviously it is a very clear war crime if true. in wars there are atrocities but also atrocity propaganda


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 21, 2022, 03:49:11 PM
I'd also point out that the video you posted was not verified either.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 21, 2022, 11:18:26 PM
the video was posted and commented on back in February https://twitter.com/nwarikoo/status/1498030734740803584 is also in the article


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on May 22, 2022, 06:26:50 AM
The article also states that the video had not been verified.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on May 22, 2022, 09:59:25 PM
Quote
The article also states that the video had not been verified.

to my point!


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on June 02, 2022, 10:07:40 PM
“The military aid the west is providing to Ukraine is changing the dynamic and if Russia doesn’t find a way to address this meaningfully… the conflict will never end.”


scott ritter was a UN Weapons inspector who came out against the Iraq war. He is also, regrettably, known for his habit of soliciting teenage girls online for video sex stuff, for which he has been arrested I believe multiple times. He's also a former marine and kind of knows what he's talking about.

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/scott-ritters-switcheroo-why-i-radically-changed-my-overall-assessment/ (https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/scott-ritters-switcheroo-why-i-radically-changed-my-overall-assessment/)

Ritter was riding high on the contrarian side till facts on the ground changed: the billions of dollars in weapons the US is sending to Ukraine is having a profound effect.


"Unless Russia is willing to jump across the Dnieper River and head into western Ukraine ... then demilitarization of Ukraine is not going to take place"


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on June 14, 2022, 06:59:01 AM
As I feared the sensation of this war is dwindling in people's minds and it's on the news less and less as fresh "stories" come along. Even in here no one has added a post to this thread in over a week.

Well, don't forget Ukrainians are still suffering an invasion of their cities and homes, and still need help. If you can donate anything to refugee relief, it's needed.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on June 14, 2022, 07:43:15 AM
It became less urgent to me personally when Putin gave up on Kiev, but yeah, there is a predictable degree of fatigue. The news doesn't change much, or changes very slowly.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on June 14, 2022, 09:00:16 AM
Have you heard from your friend lately, Rev?


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Rev. Powell on June 14, 2022, 10:28:20 AM
Have you heard from your friend lately, Rev?

Not directly but I check her FB page every now and then, and things seem to have returned to near-normal in Kiev: people are trying to go about their ordinary lives. Yesterday she posted video of a psychedelic jam band a friend of hers is in playing a concert in a courtyard for about 4 people.

She also reposts lots of material from other Ukrainians. She posted one of a resident walking through the streets of Bucha back in February. Eerie, almost the entire town was a field of rubble as far as the eye could see, a few houses still standing, fires still burning, some abandoned tanks in the streets. Surreal.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on June 16, 2022, 09:18:05 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/13/climate/russia-oil-gas-record-revenue.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/13/climate/russia-oil-gas-record-revenue.html)

Russia’s Oil Revenue Soars Despite Sanctions, Study Finds

Rising oil prices more than offset a decline in export volumes during the first 100 days of the assault on Ukraine.


so much for that

Quote
Russia earned what is very likely a record 93 billion euros in revenue from exports of oil, gas and coal in the first 100 days of the country’s invasion of Ukraine, according to data analyzed by the Center for Research on Energy and Clean Air, a research organization based in Helsinki, Finland. About two-thirds of those earnings, the equivalent of about $97 billion, came from oil, and most of the remainder from natural gas.

“The current rate of revenue is unprecedented, because prices are unprecedented, and export volumes are close to their highest levels on record,” said Lauri Myllyvirta, an analyst who led the center’s research.


our sanctions are raising the price of oil, which is helping russia.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on June 29, 2022, 11:37:36 PM
https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1619499/putin-russia-will-respond-if-nato-sets-up-infrastructure-in-finland-sweden

Quote
Putin: Russia will respond if NATO sets up infrastructure in Finland, Sweden


turkey lifted its veto after finland and sweden agreed to sell them planes or something


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on June 30, 2022, 01:24:16 PM
It's from last week, but I understand this is what Putin's down to...

https://nypost.com/2022/06/26/obese-retired-russian-general-called-to-fight-in-ukraine-report/


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on July 09, 2022, 02:36:23 PM
fat general story is fake

https://twitter.com/ArbiterOfTweets/status/1545651614253555712
 
turns out its from a celebration of border guards.

"It turns out to be a local ceremony celebrating "Border Guard Day", a holiday for (former) border guards in Russia.

On Yelansky district's official Telegram, we even find a picture of 'Pavel' at the microphone stand giving a military salute...

Our '67-year old general Pavel' turns out to be the 58-year old Ivan Ivanovich Turchin, veteran of both the Russian military and the Border Guard.

He retired in 2011, after 20 years of service at the border in Uzbekistan."


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on July 09, 2022, 02:47:20 PM
^wondered about that after googling the name, but I assumed the pictures were old...^


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on July 09, 2022, 03:03:22 PM
Yes Pavel is I guess a first name? I don't know much about Russia

If Putin is calling on retired border guards to serve as battle commanders he really is in deep trouble


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on July 09, 2022, 03:13:43 PM
Yes Pavel is I guess a first name? I don't know much about Russia

If Putin is calling on retired border guards to serve as battle commanders he really is in deep trouble

Been a while with so much going on, but the Pavel I could find at the time was a veteran of Afghanistan & went on to be some sort of diplomat....
He didn't look quite like that, but I'd figured retirement had it's effect in him...


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on July 19, 2022, 12:05:08 PM
Sad how people's interest in something fades so fast. The woman at a megachurch near me who handles donations for Ukrainian refugees says she has not had anything from the outside come in specifically earmarked for Ukraine in three weeks now. The church is still sending money itself from its funds, but I suppose no one is thinking about Ukraine anymore enough to donate. Heck, even this thread has gone mostly dormant and sunk to the bottom of the page, and it only takes an outraged thought to bump it forward.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Alex on July 19, 2022, 01:02:32 PM
We are still making donations locally. Just earlier on this week, we took in stuff for roughly 70 Ukrainian refugees that are being housed locally. I've been following the course of the war closely, but not posting much on the thread because I am trying to not accidentally say more than I am allowed to about what is happening out there.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on July 19, 2022, 03:42:08 PM
What can any of us say?  We are watching.  Some pray.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on July 19, 2022, 04:35:31 PM
Adding a few bucks to the prayers might really hit the spot.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: Allhallowsday on July 19, 2022, 04:41:16 PM
Adding a few bucks to the prayers might really hit the spot.
In my case, adding a few prayers. 
I wish I had all the bucks in the world and could donate more.  That is an excuse.  I don't like excuses.   :bluesad:


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on July 19, 2022, 05:02:17 PM
I've been hearing that humanitarian aid hasn't been reaching people on the front lines....
Ukrainian soldiers have been destroying it so the Russians won't get it....

Not really any good sides here, kinda like Ethiopia in the eighties, or Somalia in the nineties, or Syria.....


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: ER on July 19, 2022, 07:47:01 PM
Corruption plagues already challenged times, so I am sure a lot of aid is being stolen. I know one of the main groups I have given money runs its own facility just inside Poland, and it's made the operation more efficient than if it was in Ukraine. Hopefully a portion of the money that's been spent has reached at least some people. War is a terrible disruption to life, as well as being many other even worse things.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: indianasmith on July 19, 2022, 08:35:01 PM
I've been hearing that humanitarian aid hasn't been reaching people on the front lines....
Ukrainian soldiers have been destroying it so the Russians won't get it....

Not really any good sides here, kinda like Ethiopia in the eighties, or Somalia in the nineties, or Syria.....


I would argue that the side which invaded a peaceful neighbor for the sole purpose of stealing its territory is the BAD side.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: LilCerberus on July 19, 2022, 09:22:33 PM
I've been hearing that humanitarian aid hasn't been reaching people on the front lines....
Ukrainian soldiers have been destroying it so the Russians won't get it....

Not really any good sides here, kinda like Ethiopia in the eighties, or Somalia in the nineties, or Syria.....


I would argue that the side which invaded a peaceful neighbor for the sole purpose of stealing its territory is the BAD side.

True, I was simply trying to point out that in the midst of a war, the Ukraine army has still found time to commit atrocities against their own people.


Title: Re: The Crazy SOB Actually Did it!
Post by: lester1/2jr on July 28, 2022, 12:14:35 AM
this thing is never going to end. both sides look at it as existential to win