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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Entertainment  |  Let's Talk Pro Wrestling. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Let's Talk Pro Wrestling.  (Read 16639 times)
JaseSF
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« on: August 09, 2010, 03:54:48 PM »

So O.K. I saw Darksider already started some cool and interesting pro wrestling threads in this forum but I think we need one where we can talk and chat about the latest news from WWE, TNA, ROH, CZW, SHIMMER, NOAH, NWA, Japan, whatever. Where we can discuss the latest happening on Raw, Smackdown, Impact or ROH's weekly show. A place to talk about the latest wrestling on DVD or VHS we've viewed, etc. Basically let's just talk pro wrestling.

Alright to get it going, I'll start with the following questions?

Favourite Current Wrestler?
Favourite Old-School Wrestler?
Favourite Federation Today?
Favourite All-Time Federation?

Well to answer the questions, my favourite current wrestler is C.M. Punk. Yes I know Punk is currently doing a heelish hardline militant take on Straight Edge which I personally don't agree with but he's still a great wrestler and in real life, I understand he lives a Straight Edge lifestyle much more similar to my own. Punk is great on the microphone and really knows how to get the fans hating him. His group with Serena, Luke Gallows and Joseph Mercury is currently the most interesting aspect of Smackdown for me. Personally I think they do need more members in the group although I inevitably seeing Punk's charges turning on him down the road...the question then is well Punk return to being a fan favourite or will his former charges take on that role?

My favourite old-school wrestler was Randy "Macho Man" Savage. Savage brought an intensity and high energy, high impact to everything he did in the ring. He seemed like a cool customer but actually was easy to temper. I remember how jealous he was of Miss Elizabeth and how much the fans hated him in his Intercontinental title days especially after he injured Ricky Steamboat. Savage was fantastic in that role and I think it's actually when I liked him best believe it or not although he'd go on to become a fan favourite in 1987 after the Hart Foundation and Honky Tonk Man attacked Miss Elizabeth as she tried to shield him from attack. Savage flipped out at the heels and was thereafter beloved. I remember how thrilled I was when he won the WWF World title in 1988 at Wrestlemania IV and went on to form the Mega-Powers with Hulk Hogan. Truthfully I never liked Hogan all that much and soon Hogan and Savage would split as I kind of expected would eventually happen with Savage becoming heel again for a few more years and losing his title back to Hogan. Savage though would again become a fan favourite following a reunion with Elizabeth at Wrestlemania VII and would eventually win another WWF World title in 1992 from Ric Flair in a bitter rivalry. Savage's matches with Steamboat and Flair are just great IMO.

My favourite federation these days is WWE I have to admit although I think it's pretty bad more often than not. WWE these days follows formula scripts way too much as every episode of Smackdown or Raw feels pretty much identical to those over the last ten years or so, actually they're also fairly similar to their video game's season format. The days of wrestling being truly unpredictable sadly seem to be over although the Nexus did spice things up quite a bit recently. I also like the rise of some good new, young talent in WWE like Sheamus, Drew McIntyre and Kofi Kingston. Right behind WWE would probably be ROH for the last decade. They just feature the best bell to bell wrestling there arguably is to be seen these days although the loss of top talent like Bryan Danielson and Nigel McGuinnes has hurt them quite a lot. I cannot believe WWE let go of Danielson either...I keep hoping they'll bring him back with the Nexus angle somehow.

My favourite old-school wrestling federation was the NWA. Jim Crockett Promotions. In the late 1980s, wrestling just didn't get any better than the NWA what with Ric Flair as NWA World Champion fending off challenges from the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Terry Funk, Lex Luger, Sting, Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, Barry Windham, Ronnie Garvin, Jimmy Garvin, the Road Warriors and the Rock 'n' Roll Express. The U.S. title wars between Blanchard-T.A., McDaniel-T.A., Koloff-T.A, Koloff-Luger, Rhodes-Luger, Windham-Rhodes, Windham-Luger. The Television title wars between Dusty Rhodes and Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson. A tag division so full of talent they needed both a World tag and United States tag titles...teams included The Road Warriors, The Rock 'n' Roll Express, The Horsemen Blanchard & Anderson, The Midnight Express with Jim Cornette, Nikita & Ivan Koloff, Lex Luger & Barry Windham, The Garvins, the Varsity Club, the Original Midnight Express with Paul E. Dangerously, Tom Zenk & Brian Pillman, the Freebirds, Doom, the Steiners and so many more.
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2010, 08:04:23 PM »

Pro wrestling: Comic books for people who like the idea of comic books but have trouble with the little balloons with letters in them.... BounceGiggle
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WWW
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2010, 08:24:37 PM »

My history with wrestling is a long one.  I'll do current time and back.  I tune in and out of pro wrestling very randomly lately.  Right around the time Vinnie Mac bought WCW I pretty much lost interest.  It was so watered down with silly talking and little wrestling that I just lost interest.  I do like the action of TNA and find their roster to be loaded with talent.   However, I just don't have the time to follow anything right now with three kids.  

I was big into wrestling 10 years or so ago when NWO was big. I was glued to my TV set every Monday.  My buddy and I would chat back and forth about the latest happenings.  We'd also go to EVERY and I mean every wrestling event in our area.  No matter if we had to drive a few hours.  Best shows of that time in my life were the ECW events in Worcester, MA.  My father would always go with us and that time provided me with some wonderfully fun memories.

I watched a little wrestling in high school off and on.  Nothing religiously.  Before that I had a long span of watching wrestling from 1st grade until the 6th grade.  My father got me into it.  My mother and brother hated it.  We'd always go see the WWF when it came to town and I got to see Hulk Hogan when he was on top of the world twice.  I'd also watch GLOW a lot and AWA.  Matter of fact I recall when GLOW was my favorite.   It was an odd time.  I had many of the WWF wrestling figures growing up and the wrestling ring to boot.   I'd catch NWA from time to time but never found myself 100% liking it.

FAV Current: RVD, his athletism to me is amazing.  Plus he breaks that standard of being making threats.  He just plays it cool.

Fav Old School:  Tough one...growing up I was a huge Ultimate Warrior Fan.  

Fav Fed Today:  Probably TNA

Fav All Time Federation:  WWF though its been love/hate through the years.  I think Vince McMahon and his writers get way out of touch at times with what the public wants but at other times they're spot on.

There is actually an Indy league nearby that attracts some one time big names like Brutus Beefcake.  I really want to get to a show or two once my boys get older.
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JaseSF
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2010, 09:19:57 PM »

I grew up watching WWF on TV during the height of Hulkamania popularity. I had around 30 of the action figures and the wrestling ring too. Wrestling was so popular back then even where in rural Newfoundland via cable, you could see WWF, NWA, AWA, Calgary Stampede, UWF, GLOW (and later POWW), and Vancouver's All-Star Wrestling plus there was a show called Pro Wrestling This Week that showed highlights and matches from all over - the independents, Japan, etc..  There was a lot of wrestling back then and no two federations were exactly the same. Nowadays everything feels too scripted and pre-planned and usually seems unreal...even though it was still pre-determined back in the 80s, it was presented in such a way via kayfabe as though it was a real sport, at least some illusion of it was cast, that it made it somehow easier to lose oneself in the illusion so to speak.

I'm watching WWE tonight. The first match between Miz and Evan Bourne was surprisingly stiff and almost reminded me of the Japanese strong style yet it's kind of sad to see how WWE is misusing Bourne who has the potential to be as big as Rey Mysterio if only WWE would see it. The second match featured Melina in a sloppy match with Alicia Fox which saw Melina awkwardly dump Fox on her head (man she's lucky she wasn't seriously injured there IMO). Some of the divas hardly seem to know what they're doing on there...might be only a matter of time before one gets seriously hurt. The rest of the show has been talk..talk...talk...most of it pretty boring so far. But man is Randy Orton over these days...no doubt the most popular guy right now.

We also get John Morrison & R-Truth in a quick tag win over William Regal & Zack Ryder. Completely throwaway match just to keep Morrison & Truth in the picture. Too bad it was at the expense of talented guys like Regal & Ryder. The swimsuit triple threat match between the divas with the Bella Twins defeating Maryse & Jillian Hall & Eve Torres & Gail Kim. Completely forgettable despite what the divas were wearing. Actually only memorable thing about it was Santino Marella as special guest referee hamming it up as usual and now apparently the sudden love interest of Jimmy Snuka's daughter Tamina who disturbingly enough looks like a female version of Snuka.  Buggedout Santino actually has a legit tough guy background including some MMA but you'd never know it given the buffoon he plays in WWE. Surprisingly enough the fans seem to love him just the way he is as he remains quite popular. Still he could be doing so much more if he got more serious. The Nexus continued their attacks taking out the Hart Dynasty, Mark Henry and the Great Khali all building up to the Summerslam match featuring Team WWE vs. Team Nexus. Finally ended with a lumberjack match with Bret Hart actually teaming up with John Cena to take on Chris Jericho and Edge, who quit Team WWE just a week ago. The lumberjacks were the Nexus. Inevitably the Nexus ended up attacking Edge & Jericho bringing them back on Team WWE's side and Hart really didn't do much. Not sure if he can considering he's had a stroke in the past. Wonder if he'll actually do much of anything at Summerslam on Team WWE...
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 10:42:13 PM by xJaseSFx » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 11:39:34 PM »

I've watched wrestling, pretty much since I was around 3/4 in the '80s.  The WWF is what drew me in, with guys like Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Hillbilly Jim, Hacksaw Jim Duggan and Honky Tonk Man.  Eventually I started also watching WCW Saturday Night, which opened the doors to guys like Sting, Arn Anderson, Ric Flair and others.  I was a big fan, watching most shows put on by both WWF and WCW.  Eventually, my interest kinda wained around second and third grade in the early '90s.  I still watched, but not on a weekly basis.  Maybe once/twice a month, only watching to see some of my favorites.  Then, what re-ignited my flame for wrestling was 3 major things: ECW, the re-emergence of Hogan and the NWO, as well as Stone Cold Steve Austin.  Seeing the stuff ECW was doing, with the storylines, the blood and violence, the cruiserweights, etc, showed me like, "Wow, it doesn't all have to be cartoon characters."  The NWO was an interesting concept, borrowed from a storyline in Japan, of a group of wrestlers trying to take over the company they work for.  Eventually the cruiserweights kept me tuned in here.  Then, the legendary WWF Austin/McMahon angle, where Vince McMahon himself became physically involved in a storyline in order to compete directly with the heavy competition.

Fav. Current: I'd have to give it to AJ Styles.  Mostly, cause I've seen him grow as a wrestler, from a young upstart, competing briefly in WCW, then seeing him locally with NWA:Wildside, CZW, ROH, and following from the very first TNA broadcast in 2002 until now.  Of today's generation, one of the best gifted aerialists and technicians.  Close second is Kurt Angle, who I believe is taking some time off.

Fav Old School: Have to say, likely Bret Hart.  One of the few who kept me tuning in to the mid '90s WWF, as they had wrestling plumbers, baseball players, racecar drivers, etc.  And, how would one categorize The Undertaker?  I was gonna select him as my "Old School", but seeing as he is technically a 'Current' wrestler, hmm?

Fed. Today: I don't really have a preferred organization now.  I don't prefer one over the other, and like both for different reasons.

Fav. All Time Federation: Ultimately, ECW.  Hands down.  The wrestlers they had and storylines they utilized opened the doors for both WCW and WWF to become popular in the late '90s, and for people to deny that is lying to themselves.  ECW brought to the attention of Amercian fans the influx of Japanese and Mexican wrestling that WCW and WWE ended up using in their Cruiserweight/Light Heavyweight divisions.  Not only that, but ECW was a company that would take wrestlers deemed unvaluable to the 'big 2' and then make them valuable (Names coming to mind include Mick Foley, Steve Austin, Steven Richards, Raven, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and Rey Mysterio), as all got some relatively good face time in WCW and WWE.  Also, they introduced great storylines that blurred the line between reality and fiction, which was later used by the WWE.  Their use of 'hardcore' matches also influenced WCW and WWE, both of whom started "Hardcore" divisions, giving home to wrestlers that previously were not being used and gave them new life, ironically (coming to mind the likes of Hardcore Holly, Viscera, Meng, Norman Smiley, etc.
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 01:54:08 PM »

I think ECW was both a good and a bad thing for pro wrestling. Yes it helped to usher in a new attitude era, a much more adult-oriented product but it also took a lot of the fun out of wrestling, which was a family event when I was a kid. No parent in their right mind was going to let their kids watch ECW so how are you going to create future fans? I also think ECW's removal of the rules really, really hurt wrestling for quite some time and it's only now starting to recover. Wrestling needs a certain amount of rules for things to make sense and have any meaning. Good guys follow the rules. Bad guys break them. It's a simple formula that worked in wrestling for many decades before ECW. ECW simply had all bad guys really. There wasn't anyone who was essentially good, just someone who wasn't quite as bad as someone else.

Where I think ECW was good was it was a great training and breeding ground for future talent and it was also a good place for veterans to rejuvenate and make a fresh start. That they actually also highlighted quality wrestlers like Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Dean Malenko and Eddy Guerrero was another plus. That it wasn't all hardcore no rules matches was good although I think the hardcore no rules matches dominated a little too much there.
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 08:23:50 PM »

I think ECW was both a good and a bad thing for pro wrestling. Yes it helped to usher in a new attitude era, a much more adult-oriented product but it also took a lot of the fun out of wrestling, which was a family event when I was a kid. No parent in their right mind was going to let their kids watch ECW so how are you going to create future fans? I also think ECW's removal of the rules really, really hurt wrestling for quite some time and it's only now starting to recover. Wrestling needs a certain amount of rules for things to make sense and have any meaning. Good guys follow the rules. Bad guys break them. It's a simple formula that worked in wrestling for many decades before ECW. ECW simply had all bad guys really. There wasn't anyone who was essentially good, just someone who wasn't quite as bad as someone else.

Where I think ECW was good was it was a great training and breeding ground for future talent and it was also a good place for veterans to rejuvenate and make a fresh start. That they actually also highlighted quality wrestlers like Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Dean Malenko and Eddy Guerrero was another plus. That it wasn't all hardcore no rules matches was good although I think the hardcore no rules matches dominated a little too much there.
Valid points, yes.  But, one could argue that in real life, there aren't really 'good' people.  Just people who aren't as bad as others.  Nobody, and I mean, NOBODY is perfect.  Everyone has bad thoughts, does bad things.  But, some are more bad than others.  For example, there's serial killers out there, guys who embezzle millions of dollars from the companies they work for, etc.  I hate my boss, but it doesn't mean I'm gonna stroll in and steal from them, even if I had the opportunity.  But that's another discussion entirely.

And, in relation to your statements, wrestling needed something to shake things up at the time.  They had been marketing to kids, and that worked in the '80s.  But in the '90s, the kids grew up (I was one of them.)  Sure, the whole 'good guy/bad guy' thing worked for it's time, but in the '90s, the generation I was a part of wanted different things.  Extreme sports saw an uprising: Skateboarding, the X Games, Ultimate Fighting, etc. all emerged.  Rap changed from Run DMC to harder sounds of Tupac and Biggie Smalls.  White Snake disappeared, and we wanted Nirvana and Alice in Chains.  Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction and The Usual Suspects helped change the ideals of the 'anti-hero', and stuff like Howard Stern was the norm.  I myself and a lot of teens I knew didn't want the wholesome image of Hulk Hogan or Macho Man.  We wanted to see more action, more chairs, etc, leading to the rise of Raven, Foley, Dreamer, etc.  Out with Hulk, in with Stone Cold.  Hence, Hogan's heel turn.  And it worked.  They needed it to survive.  Nowadays, going back to the 'family friendly' will help them, on a business level.  People my age are now older, having kids, and wouldn't let them watch it if it was the way we knew it in the '90s.  Eventually, I'm sure we'll see a resurgence of the hardcore style, but not for a few years.
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 09:03:57 PM »

But with the hardcore style also comes the risk of more injuries and shortened careers. Wrestlers in the 70s and early 80s often wrestled until well into their 50s, most of the hardcore ECW performers, even a lot of those still going, are shattered wrecks physically - the severe wear and tear and desire to please the fans by taking nasty bumps night after night really takes a toll. Old-school hardcore guys though know where to draw the line it seems which is why Abdullah wrestled until he was in his late 60s and the Sheik was probably wrestling just as long in his heyday.

The fact there's more pain pills being abused is likely a big factor in all the deaths these days too as guys don't know when they've taken their bodies too far until it's too late. In his book, Bret Hart talks about how Dynamite Kid would pop pain pills so he could keep doing his snap suplexes and other high impact moves night after night. Of course, now he's crippled from it....  Easy access to drugs, injury, pain and the pressure to perform under an hectic schedule, wrestling is certainly not easy.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 09:08:34 PM by xJaseSFx » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2010, 09:23:49 PM »

Valid point, but, drugs are prevalent, regardless.  Look at guys like Carlito or Jake the Snake.  Both are big drug abusers and I wouldn't necessarily put them up as "poster children" of the hardcore style.  And you have guys like CM Punk, who comes from a somewhat hardcore background, and apparently doesn't touch alcohol, let alone pills or anything else.

I'd say wrestling, in and of itself, opens the floodgates of drugs, not necessarily the hardcore styles.  Mick Foley is a loving family man, doesn't mess with drugs.  Hulk Hogan is known for a limited moveset, yet did an interview claiming he smoked pot on occasion and used cocaine on occasion.  It's wrestling, period, that takes a toll.  Look at a guy like Grandmaster Sexay.  He wouldn't be labeled 'hardcore' and is known for using pills and alcohol.
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"The path to Heaven runs through miles of clouded Hell."

Don’t get too close, it’s dark inside.
It’s where my demons hide, it’s where my demons hide.
JaseSF
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Karma: 719
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Soon, your brain will turn to jelly.


« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2010, 10:01:42 PM »

I do think the hardcore style lends itself to a "Can you top this mentality?" often leading to more and sicker bumps being taken ... which I think is a big part of the reason for more guys getting hurt. Although steroid abuse as I understand it also leaves guys often to getting rather easily injured too. So the WWF's promoting a jacked appearance over a traditional wrestling appearance probably hasn't helped things either. I actually miss the days of the big rotund fat guys who could actually move around a ring surprisingly well and had the fat to take some bumps smaller men probably couldn't...guys like Adrian Adonis and Dick Murdoch were as good as anyone in the ring in their heyday (before Adonis ballooned up to over 400 pounds). Kind of why I like Mike Rotundo (I.R.S.)'s son Husky Harris and hope he does well in WWE following NXT.
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HappyGilmore
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2010, 10:19:03 PM »

One could also say that Dusty Rhodes fit that category, of the big rotund guy who could go.
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"The path to Heaven runs through miles of clouded Hell."

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JaseSF
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2010, 01:40:52 PM »

I really miss the old school jobbers/enhancement guys who made some wrestlers look so good out there sometimes when they themselves were actually the more competent hand in the ring. There's been a little bit of a return of it but unfortunately now we see guys who should be rising the card (Evan Bourne, Zack Ryder) and capable veterans (William Regal) playing this role a bit too much these days...
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2010, 03:05:07 PM »

Pro wrestling: Comic books for people who like the idea of comic books but have trouble with the little balloons with letters in them.... BounceGiggle
I suppose you're funny, but, why insult members of the forum who do enjoy pro wrestling? (And I ain't one of 'em!)  Why not pass the thread over without comment?   Wink
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2010, 09:44:03 PM »

I really miss the old school jobbers/enhancement guys who made some wrestlers look so good out there sometimes when they themselves were actually the more competent hand in the ring. There's been a little bit of a return of it but unfortunately now we see guys who should be rising the card (Evan Bourne, Zack Ryder) and capable veterans (William Regal) playing this role a bit too much these days...
I am a big fan of Regal and Ryder.  Apparently I'm in the minority.
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"The path to Heaven runs through miles of clouded Hell."

Don’t get too close, it’s dark inside.
It’s where my demons hide, it’s where my demons hide.
JaseSF
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Soon, your brain will turn to jelly.


« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2010, 03:56:08 PM »

Yeah I like them both too. They really seem lost in the shuffle on Raw. These days with so few top federations (without any more WCW), talented guys really just don't have as many options available to them as perhaps they should.

Anyone else also notice that there's an awful lot of second and third generation wrestlers these days? Ted DiBiase has 3 sons trying to make it, Dusty Rhodes has 2 sons in WWE, Mike Rotundo has 2 sons 1 of whom is on NXT, Curt Hennig's son is on NXT, Davey Boys Smith's son is in WWE, Jim Neidhart's daughter, Jimmy Snuka's daughter and his son was there not so long ago too, Ricky Steamboat's son is trying to make it as is Ric Flair's...

I watched the documentary portion of Ricky Steamboat's DVD Set (the Life Story of the Dragon) and it felt very much like a kayfabe wrestling presentation. Everything that seemed to happen to Steamboat apparently "really did" happen including Roberts dropping him on his head on the concrete floor with a DDT and Randy Savage "hitting" him with a ring bell. ?! Still enjoyed it though. It was a fun viewing experience although I'm looking even more to checking out the matches on the set.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 04:03:46 PM by xJaseSFx » Logged

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