You Know What Really Grinds My Gears?

[Mr. DS]

Sure, some of the rich are corrupt. Yes, most of them live extravagantly, in way that make us peasants sick. But our problem aren't the rich. The Occupy Wall Street crowd are going after the wrong people. If you want things to improve, then start supporting the businesses. If you stop the businesses, I promise you, complete social and economic collapse is assured.

Flickster, when was the last time you saw a BMW at Walmart?  I can't recall either. The middle and lower class has done their best to support big businesses in the past as much as the rich.

wow... wow... wow...

So you have no dreams? You have no goals? You have no desire? You like to live life like a fish in a pond with the other fish?

Nah no one has desires to swim in a money bin Skull, just you and Uncle Scrooge.    Seriously, we all want to be rich but I would have no problem paying extra taxes if I was.  

Agree but that reply is responding to: "However, I see no need why people need..." quote... maybe I should highlight it anyway... I never agreed with that line of thinking; it's wrong at so many levels.

Yep, it makes sense to have a gold chromed toilet while people are starving and struggling paycheck to paycheck.  , all I'm saying is there are some things that celebs and other people buy for themselves that just seem way too extravagant.  Yet there exists complaints about having to dish out more in tax money.  Its doesn't make sense.  I recall an MTV cribs episode with a rapper that made sense to me. Look The guy lived with a few other people in a duplex.  Nothing fancy, rather just enough a person needs.  I'm not about wiping your ass with corn cobs but if you have the cash and are blowing it why not give a little extra for the cause tax wise.

[Flick James]

Flickster, when was the last time you saw a BMW at Walmart?  I can't recall either. The middle and lower class has done their best to support big businesses in the past as much as the rich.

I don't know. I'm a Target man.

I don't argue that point at all. I'm just saying, people fail to see how businesses support the people. Remove the evil rich people and you remove the businesses. Remove the businesses and you remove all the jobs. Remove the evil rich people and the businesses and you have no tax revenue. It's an insanely simple equation. What do the Occupy Wall Streat crowd hope to accomplish? The implied agenda is to send a message to corporations by hurting them. But by hurting them the people are just hurting themselves.  Why people are going after the corporations instead of Washington is beyond me.

[Mr. DS]

Flickster, when was the last time you saw a BMW at Walmart?  I can't recall either. The middle and lower class has done their best to support big businesses in the past as much as the rich.

I don't know. I'm a Target man.

I don't argue that point at all. I'm just saying, people fail to see how businesses support the people. Remove the evil rich people and you remove the businesses. Remove the businesses and you remove all the jobs. Remove the evil rich people and the businesses and you have no tax revenue. It's an insanely simple equation. What do the Occupy Wall Streat crowd hope to accomplish? The implied agenda is to send a message to corporations by hurting them. But by hurting them the people are just hurting themselves.  Why people are going after the corporations instead of Washington is beyond me.

Well put and I agree that protests in this country are often noise without a real cause.  Washington is where the real tales of greed exists.  However I like keeping an eye on big business.  If one buys up everything the jobs will be quickly extinguished.

I should point out my initial post was right after I heard several people complain about the poor and welfare. IT seems they are often the first to be vilified and I can't see why.  Not everyone on the system is some dude and woman on crack yet that seems to be the norms.  Yet I guess I'm just as guilty thinking all Rich are fat cats with cigars.  I'm just tired of seeing people get paid so much for nothing much.  Athletes, celebs, etc.  

Side note, you're right Target is better than Walmart.

[Flick James]

Flickster, when was the last time you saw a BMW at Walmart?  I can't recall either. The middle and lower class has done their best to support big businesses in the past as much as the rich.

I don't know. I'm a Target man.

I don't argue that point at all. I'm just saying, people fail to see how businesses support the people. Remove the evil rich people and you remove the businesses. Remove the businesses and you remove all the jobs. Remove the evil rich people and the businesses and you have no tax revenue. It's an insanely simple equation. What do the Occupy Wall Streat crowd hope to accomplish? The implied agenda is to send a message to corporations by hurting them. But by hurting them the people are just hurting themselves.  Why people are going after the corporations instead of Washington is beyond me.

Well put and I agree that protests in this country are often noise without a real cause.  Washington is where the real tales of greed exists.  However I like keeping an eye on big business.  If one buys up everything the jobs will be quickly extinguished.

I should point out my initial post was right after I heard several people complain about the poor and welfare. IT seems they are often the first to be vilified and I can't see why.  Not everyone on the system is some dude and woman on crack yet that seems to be the norms.  Yet I guess I'm just as guilty thinking all Rich are fat cats with cigars.  I'm just tired of seeing people get paid so much for nothing much.  Athletes, celebs, etc.  

Side note, you're right Target is better than Walmart.

I'm not trying to play tit for tat. I'm not representing the rich, per se. I just think people demonize them for all the wrong reasons. As for celebs and athletes, who do we blame for that one? People pay the money and allow them that lifestyle, don't they? Well, where is that money supposed to go? It seems to me the most appropriate place for it would be the person who is generating the revenue, don't you agree? Unless you're saying that a good portion of it should be taken from them and redistributed amongst the people. What will that do? Nothing but help pay for a few packs of Pampers, then the people are right back where they were.

As for the welfare state, I am ideologically opposed to it, and it has nothing to do with my opinion of people that are on it. I'm sure there are plenty of good people amongst them. Ultimately the welfare state demeans and lowers the people. It creates a culture whose expectations out of life are what handouts they can get from a corrupt and inefficient state. I would much rather they be aspiring to work for one of these evil rich people and maybe get a little more out of life. In either scenario, they are the same people, good or bad.

Before you go asking for the rich's money to be taken and redistributed, think of what the result is. You do that, and the economic system comes to a crashing halt, and not some of the jobs will be lost, all of them will be. Banks will stop lending, businesses will stop growing, jobs will stop being created. And all that redistributed wealth? Where do you think it will end up? A portion of it will be blown by the people who have little idea what to do with such wealth, and the rest will end up in the hands of the politicians.

Look, people are reacting to a climate where there are fewer jobs, and the same rich people are there that were there before, and they're living a lifestyle that feels like a slap in the face. I get that, but it's still little more than an emotional reaction. The country is only going to recover if people do everything in their power to be as productive as they can be. I know that doesn't sound easy, and it's not. It's easier to hit the streets and protest and point at the corporations and say that they are to blame for laying them off. But how about Washington, who has regulated businesses into the ground to the point that their only option for real profitability is to manufacture overseas and outsource labor to other countries who have larger populations and are willing to do the work for less? Where is the outrage there?

[Flick James]

And DS, despite my rantings and seeming animosity, don't take offense. I know I can be a confrontational a***ole alot of the time, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[Skull]

Nah no one has desires to swim in a money bin Skull, just you and Uncle Scrooge.    Seriously, we all want to be rich but I would have no problem paying extra taxes if I was.

 

Sure you dont have any problem to pay any taxes until you get the bill!

Yep, it makes sense to have a gold chromed toilet while people are starving and struggling paycheck to paycheck.

Will it change if the toilet wasnt gold plated... People are still going to struggle from paycheck to paycheck. 

All I'm saying is there are some things that celebs and other people buy for themselves that just seem way too extravagant. Yet there exists complaints about having to dish out more in tax money.  Its doesn't make sense.  I recall an MTV cribs episode with a rapper that made sense to me. Look The guy lived with a few other people in a duplex.  Nothing fancy, rather just enough a person needs.

Some celebs like to show off and sometimes their 'estravagant lifestyle' is a nessary need... most of the time they are doing this so people like you would read about them. It doesnt make them bad or evil.

On the other hand not every famous person is rich and some are 'freaking loaded' Again it doesnt make them bad or evil.

I'm not about wiping your ass with corn cobs but if you have the cash and are blowing it why not give a little extra for the cause tax wise.

So how much is the sales tax for a gold chromed toilet?

[ghouck]

Some celebs like to show off and sometimes their 'estravagant lifestyle' is a nessary need... most of the time they are doing this so people like you would read about them. It doesnt make them bad or evil.

Some celebs like to show off and sometimes their 'estravagant lifestyle' is a nessary need... most of the time they are doing this so people like you would read about them. It doesnt make them bad or evil.

I think the point is that if a person lives alone and has a 30-room home and 50 cars, they have little place to complain about higher taxes. Look at the number of those types that have all that and STILL don't pay their taxes.

I'm not about wiping your ass with corn cobs but if you have the cash and are blowing it why not give a little extra for the cause tax wise.

So how much is the sales tax for a gold chromed toilet?

Nothing where I live. . .

[Mr. DS]

Some celebs like to show off and sometimes their 'estravagant lifestyle' is a nessary need... most of the time they are doing this so people like you would read about them. It doesnt make them bad or evil.

Some celebs like to show off and sometimes their 'estravagant lifestyle' is a nessary need... most of the time they are doing this so people like you would read about them. It doesnt make them bad or evil.

I think the point is that if a person lives alone and has a 30-room home and 50 cars, they have little place to complain about higher taxes. Look at the number of those types that have all that and STILL don't pay their taxes.

I'm not about wiping your ass with corn cobs but if you have the cash and are blowing it why not give a little extra for the cause tax wise.

So how much is the sales tax for a gold chromed toilet?

Nothing where I live. . .

I think Ghouck pretty much summed up what my original point was.  

As for gold toilets, I wonder if they stain less.  hmmmm

[AndyC]

I agree completely. Whether you have any business complaining about taxes, for me, depends not on the amount you pay but rather on the amount you're left with. The guy on a modest salary who has barely enough left after taxes to keep a roof over his head and food on his table is suffering more for the taxes he pays than the guy who pays a crapload of tax, but still affords a big house, fancy car, toys, travel and a substantial nest egg. I don't care how big a bite gets taken out of his paycheque, it's not doing him as much harm as a smaller percentage taken from the guy who didn't have much to begin with.

An ordinary working stiff has cause to complain about taxes. I don't want to hear complaints from people who can maintain a luxurious lifestyle in spite of taxes.

[Flick James]

I agree completely. Whether you have any business complaining about taxes, for me, depends not on the amount you pay but rather on the amount you're left with. The guy on a modest salary who has barely enough left after taxes to keep a roof over his head and food on his table is suffering more for the taxes he pays than the guy who pays a crapload of tax, but still affords a big house, fancy car, toys, travel and a substantial nest egg. I don't care how big a bite gets taken out of his paycheque, it's not doing him as much harm as a smaller percentage taken from the guy who didn't have much to begin with.

An ordinary working stiff has cause to complain about taxes. I don't want to hear complaints from people who can maintain a luxurious lifestyle in spite of taxes.

This sounds like a whole lot of class envy to me.

Look, I understand the frustration, but let's have a bit more perspective. The rich pay higher taxes than the lower tax brackets, and people want to them to pay more and more, because they say that they are living too extravagant a lifestyle. And so, the lower incomes pay a small part of the overall bill, yet use the programs that those taxes pay for. The rich pay the bill for those programs yet don't use them. I'm not saying that people who are struggling shouldn't get some help during hard times. I'm just saying that the rich, at least the bulk of them who had to be successful in order to be rich, contribute more to society than they get credit for, in the form of job creation and paying higher taxes. On top of that, many of them engage in philathopy as well.

So what I'm saying is, we can complain all we want about the evils of the rich. Is there some unfairness? Sure, okay, I'll go along with that. But for all their supposed evils, they keep the wheels turning. I say if they are paying the bills, generating wealth, creating jobs, and sometimes being philanthropists, then I'm fine with them having an extravagant life. I'm certainly not complaining about it. I'm more concerned about the government who are unforgiveably inefficient and corrupt in the use of all those revenues. They deserve more ire than the businesses. Do the Occupy Wall Street crowd really think they are helping us by shutting down businesses and shipping ports?

So if people want to drop out and hit the streets and protest and "storm the castle," fine. Just be prepared for what will happen when the castle comes crashing down. I know what will happen. Lot's of chaos, starvation, violence, and death. Either that or a police state. I don't like either one.

[ghouck]

And so, the lower incomes pay a small part of the overall bill, yet use the programs that those taxes pay for. The rich pay the bill for those programs yet don't use them.

Live in a rich neighborhood and call the police because someone is breaking into your place, then go do the same in a poor neighborhood and see if the results vary. No matter how you try and twist it, there are different demands on social services by the rich and the poor, and it is NOT always the poor getting more than they pay for. It doesn't take much research to find instances of federal or state money going to things like paving roads and building sound barriers in rich neighborhoods and leaving the poorer neighborhoods alone. A few years back a county in California wouldn't pay to repair a washed-out road that put hundreds of people without a way to get to work, yet spent tens of millions putting in a sound barrier wall, complete with tons of artwork because the rich didn't like the noise from the highway they built their homes near.

They deserve more ire than the businesses. Do the Occupy Wall Street crowd really think they are helping us by shutting down businesses and shipping ports?

You talk as of you believe those ports main function is to EXPORT goods. No, they're not. Think about it. . .

[JaseSF]

I don't know if it grinds my gears but I'm disturbed how in some professions around here (cashiers, postal workers, bank tellers,  bank employees in general) men are rarely ever hired for work, especially if they've over 30...I just noticed I hardly ever see any men in said professions and if I do, they are usually under 30. Actually Wal-Mart seems to hire the widest range of people.

[AndyC]

This sounds like a whole lot of class envy to me.

Not sure why. Just looking at the numbers. If people can afford to pay taxes and still buy lots of goodies for themselves, I say good for them. But from my point of view, they have much to be thankful for, and not so much to complain about, at least as far as money goes. I doubt that in the case of a very wealthy individual, taxes make that much of a difference in quality of life. For the guy just barely earning enough to make ends meet, taxes make a huge difference. The rich might pay more taxes, but the working poor carry a greater burden.

[Zapranoth]

This sounds like a whole lot of class envy to me.

Not all rich people really contributed to the greater good of humanity to gain their wealth.
Not all of them tore down or pirated their way up, but certainly some did.

in my situation, given what I believe, I don't believe that anyone particularly "deserves" to be rich, who is.  Some people work hard, sure.  I certainly have worked hard to get to where I am.   But do I deserve to make four to six times what "working class" people do?  No.  I didn't work harder than they did, per se.  I did work hard, and had good opportunities, and some help when I needed it.  

I'd wager that for some at least, great wealth is an obstacle to having compassion for other people.  The Bible certainly backs that point of view up.

Overgeneralization swings both ways in debates of this complexity.

I'm probably too tired to be allowed to post.  :P  Sorry in advance.

[indianasmith]

My whole issue on this subject is this:

Our Congress overspends to the tune of 1.5 trillion dollars a year.  They have shown zero self restraint when it comes to money.  Congress is a junkie, and taxpayer money is its heroin.  You don't dure an addict by saying "Here, have another hit!"
It's time to starve the beast!!!!

As far as the rich go - I find it immoral for the government to take half of anyone's income, regardless of what they make.  What did the government do to deserve half, or a third, or even a fourth, of someone's money, just because that person happens to be wealthy?  Especially when, in America, the bottom 47% of wage earners pay no income tax at all?