OT: obscene site

[Susan]

Ok whenever someone posts a msg on my guestbook and they include a link to their site i always check it out. I really don't like it when someone posts a brief note on the board only so they can promote a porn site, so i take it off. But i was highly offended by a site that was put on my guestbook which was, bluntly, the rape site. It was nothing but video's and pictures of various types of rape and forced sex and the main page even has male perspective stories of how great rape is.  Is just ANYTHING permitted on the net these days or can I actually report that to someone?!  A site like this has got to be illegal, it made me sick to my stomach just knowing it's out there

[BeyondTheGrave]

Most of the time the sites fake. I remember we had a thread awhile ago about those "snuff films" and how to prove their fake. Im not sure how to go about repoting it either. The only time I see crack downs on the internet is with child porn and most of those are runned by police to get perverts.

_____________________________
"We Greeks created democracy! You also created homos!"-Ghost World



Post Edited (06-11-05 23:58)

[Chopper]

Susan, the creation of the internet has created more questions of free speech to the Supreme Court. being a prior criminal justice student from everything i've read the same rule still applies to other mediums including the net and that rule is that anything that has no artistic or moral value to it etc. is deemed to be "obscenity," so the legal sanctions of free speech do not protect it.

therefore i would report the site to your local sex crimes unit (these unit's titles can very depending on your state). if no one gets indicted by it a red flag can still be raised, and who knows: maybe save someone's life in the future.

and Rich, i don't mean to correct you in anyway but only to add to what you said, most undercover cops in sex crimes units are out to catch pedophiles. legally you can be a pervert just as long as your sexual desires do not infringe upon the well being and privacy of someone else, including while on the internet.

i don't care what anyone else says, pedophilia is NOT a fetish, it is in fact a disease and those who are sexual predators of this nature deserve to be caught and prosecuted to the max.



Post Edited (06-12-05 00:45)

[odinn7]

Ya know, there is a major problem in this world when things like this are allowed. Rape sites, pedophile sites...I don't get it. Here's a story for you:
When I was internet naive (back in '97), I had gotten a WebTV unit and my wife and I used to surf the net and look at the message boards that WebTV had. As it turns out, they weren't WebTV specific message boards but they were usenet newsgroups, I just wasn't aware of that at the time. So anyway...to search for a specific board to view, you could type in a word or words and the WebTV unit would search out the top matches on the message boards and give you a list. One day we were sitting there and I typed in 'New Orleans Saints' and a list of 10 different message boards came up.  One of them was something about children. We decided to look at the board and see what it was all about considering it came up when I typed in a football team. I was horrified by what came up. A pedophile newsgroup. I wanted to vomit from what I saw, I was so disgusted that something like this was even allowed. I took the information down and reported it to WebTV and asked how they could have this on their service. I then searched out government agencies to report it to and I found some (I can't recall which ones) and I made a lengthy e-mail report to them about it. I never got a reply from anyone and I checked months later and it was still there for anyone to see. I can only hope the gov agencies took the report and then started monitoring the group to nab people. Other than that, I was severly disappointed by the lack of response or action for such a disgusting breach of humanity. Reporting obviously does very little and it's a damn shame.

[Susan]

I don't think it matters if it's fake anymore than having a "fake" child porn site. I think if you have a site that promotes an illegal activity, it should be illegal.  There is free speech but you can't say anything, some things are punishable.  

The only other time i ever reported something, it was so many years ago i don't remember to who, was when i accidentally came upon a site that showed dead bodies from the morgue and pictures of corpses from crime scenes. Now I thought that at the time was obscene - then HBO had it's forensics show which was piecing together crimes but pretty much was an overglorified freak show of bodies.

But a rape site, real or not makes me sick. Then there's these stories at the bottom that go into detail about how great it is - the site is a total endorsement for how the idea of forcing a woman to have sex is wonderful.  Now a person who reads that long enough and gets turned on by the idea of rape and has serious issues besides...what do you think they end up doing? And what the hell kind of brainwashing crap is that to show someone, that not only is it fun but women really like it ?

I don't know about reporting it to a local sex crimes unit since i do not think internet sites are governed by local law. Seems like there has to be some organization out there that keeps track of these things that you can report to. Either that or i'm going to hire a hacker to destroy that site

[BeyondTheGrave]

Don't get me wrong Susan, I don't like the thought of the site either and it should be taken down. The reason I said its fake because, well call me naive I would think something like that would montiored by police or fake or It would be taken down. But theirs also videos of people captured in Iraq begging for their lives that are over the net so I don't know.

_____________________________
"We Greeks created democracy! You also created homos!"-Ghost World



Post Edited (06-12-05 10:44)

[Mr_Vindictive]

Susan,

Yes, the fact that these type of sites exist is just part of the darkside of the internet.  What's even more disconcerting and sick about it is that these sites wouldn't exist if there weren't people frequenting them.

[Ash]

The really creepy thing is that either the owner of that website or someone who really likes it found his way to your site Susan.

Sick f**ks like that need to be shot.

[Susan]

Well clearly they weren't on my site to visit, people advertising porn sites or sites where you have to pay to join often go to geocities and scour the net for guestbooks and message boards to stick their link on. Morbid curiosity leads people to view files available on the net of murders and such and I know there have been attempts to crack down on anyone showing particular files to make it harder to share the file. But endorsing a crime, whether or not the videos are fake or not, to promote and encourage a violent sex crime falls along the same lines as child pornography and should not be allowed.

I guess he failed to notice (or even care) the webmaster is female and might take offense.

maybe i'll report it to the fbi and see what happens

[Jim H]

"I think if you have a site that promotes an illegal activity, it should be illegal. There is free speech but you can't say anything, some things are punishable. "

That's not the way free speech works in America.  What you want would require a constitutional amendment.  One which, personally, I would be opposed to.  That would also make a number of other types of sites illegal beyond those where pedophiles/rape fantasists are.

Anyway, as to legal options, simulated rape is not illegal.  Niether are text-based stories of rape.  I don't believe a true rape has ever been put onto the porn market anyways.  Why would they?  They risk going to jail, and you can fake it very convincingly.  

"And what the hell kind of brainwashing crap is that to show someone, that not only is it fun but women really like it ?"

Many women do read such sites, and some women have rape fantasies.  It is important, of course, to note they don't actually WANT to be raped.  It has more to do with fantasies of control manifested as rape.

"Now a person who reads that long enough and gets turned on by the idea of rape and has serious issues besides...what do you think they end up doing?"

This is getting into the same arguments used to ban violent and sexually explicit film - the same arguments apply.  

In any case, I am not convinced that people who these types of sites to appeal will be helped in any way by bottling up their feelings.  Pornography/pornographic stories can be an outlet for people's sexual feelings and frustrations.


One addendum: obscenity in US law is incredibly vaguely defined.  

Here it is: "obscene applies to materials that appeal predominantly to a prurient interest in sexual conduct, depict or describe sexual conduct in a patently offensive way, and lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value."

This basically means any community can define obscene how it wants.  You can't really do this on the internet, as it is far too broad and diverse of a community.

[Three Oranges]

"I don't think it matters if it's fake anymore than having a "fake" child porn site. I think if you have a site that promotes an illegal activity, it should be illegal. There is free speech but you can't say anything, some things are punishable. "

Like "Pulp Fiction."  All those killers and criminals running around sure look cool and stylish, and they make me want to kill and commit crimes. That movie should be illegal.

Fake child porn is legal.  Fake rape porn is legal.  Fake snuff porn is legal.

All as they should be, because no one is victimized in anime loli pr0n, a scene where the actress is paid to shout "no" a few times, or in a scene where some latex is torn and Karo syrup splashed around.

[ulthar]

Jim H wrote:

> "I think if you have a site that promotes an illegal activity,
> it should be illegal. There is free speech but you can't say
> anything, some things are punishable. "
>
> That's not the way free speech works in America.  What you want
> would require a constitutional amendment.  One which,
> personally, I would be opposed to.  That would also make a
> number of other types of sites illegal beyond those where
> pedophiles/rape fantasists are.
>

I think you might want to go back and read the First Amendment again, as well as the history behind why it was included in the US Constitution.  The free speech clause was written to protect people making political speech against the current government.  You know, stuff like saying "I hate the President" is protected.

No Constitutional Amendment is needed to 'regulate' certain forms of 'dangerous' speech.

The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled, numerous times, that ALL speech is not protected.  Try shouting "Fire!" in a movie theatre this weekend and after your arrest, try using the First as your defense.  Won't work.  Some illegal activities, even ones that are very clearly "speech" are not protected.

The issue here is if a web site 'promoting' or depicting rape is "speech."  How pr0n came to be interpreted as "speech" (given the historical basis for the free speech clause) I'll never know, but not ALL such material is protected either.  The courts have ruled, again numerous times, that some things are obscene and are not protected by the free speech clause.  Further, these court rulings clearly and explicitly state that the 'judge' of obscenity is community based.

For example, there are neighborhoods where you cannot put a strip club and others where you can (zoning issues notwithstanding).  The problem with applying this community standard to a web site is what defines the web's 'community?'

[ulthar]

Susan wrote:

>
> maybe i'll report it to the fbi and see what happens
>

At the very least, they would monitor it (if they are not already).  Sites like those, even fantasy ones, provide intelligence for real investigations on a whole lot of levels.

I was involved in a 'online' investigation a few years ago. A lady was raped by a guy she 'met' in an AOL chat room. I spent several weeks tracking the chat rooms he was known to frequent and it was very, very creepy.  But, I did find him, and I did 'set him up.' That part was, uh, pardon me, satisfying.

Too bad the victim dropped it before we got to court.  Without her willing to testify, we really had no case for sexual assault.

[DaveMunger]

Hey, I saw this on Something Awful, it's an awful link of the day, it made me think of this topic. I don't know how to link specifically to the Awful Link Of The Day except by linking to the actual link itself.

Anyway, people always report weird stuff to whoever is hosting a site, and sometimes it gets taken down, I've even seen that happen to stuff that wasn't all that offensive. Whoever's hosting this probably already knows, but maybe if they get enough complaints they'll drop it.

[Susan]

how do you find out who is hosting a site?