OT: Here we go again.......

[ulthar]

Freep,  I understand what you are saying, but I think the issue that has everyone keyed up about this is the claims of causality.  I think no one would argue that violent games, violent movies/tv and probably violent music and books contribute to an overall desensitization.

But, do they really CAUSE violent behavior?  Maybe, in some select, specific cases it can be reasonably argued.  But in the general sense, it just smacks of a bunch of people trying to find an excuse for their actions rather than take personal responsibility.

It is no different than the Andrea Yates deal.  That woman committed one of the most heinous acts of torture and murder against her own children and within a day of it happening, people were crawling out of the woodwork to find an excuse.  Think about the word excuse (eks-yoos).  It looks a lot like excuse (eks-yooz).  There is a pardonable cause for everything, including the most depraved acts our society can invent.

I find myself in the "I don't care WHY" camp on the WHY issue.  I don't care if some thug kills someone because he played 16 hours of games a day.  I only care that he did it, and believe he should be punished.  I don't care WHY Andrea Yates murdered her children.  I only care that she did it, and believe she should be punished.

I would put it to you that the lack of punishment for real crime (coupled with ridiculous punishments for minor crimes) contributes as much or more to the problem of desensitization to violence.  By not punishing violent offenders swiftly and demonstrably, we devalue the lives they steal or effect.

Oh, and your mention of college campus rapes reminds me of something that happened when I was in grad school.  It was a college town in the southeast and a very liberal one at that.  There had been over the period of several weeks, a half dozen or so instances of a rapist attacking women at certain places on campus.  Though none were hurt beyond being raped, I think a weapon was used and violence was threatened if they did not comply.

Anyway, after about two weeks of these attacks, a "Rape Free Zone" was organized.  I thought, what a good idea.  Well, until I found out the extent of the rape free zone was for one of the women's groups to hold a rally on the quad and chant "No More Rape" and some little, oh about 6" x 9", signs displaying "Rape Free Zone" were placed along the sidewalks between two buildings.  That's it.

I suggested that we should organize volunteer escort groups for ladies who had to walk around campus at night and even have volunteers 'stand guard' at various places.  It was as thought I spat on someone's cornflakes with a suggestion that might actually, you know, PREVENT an attack.

So, I think our lack of response to violent behavior does as much to desensitize us to it as much as violent entertainment does.

[plan9superfan]

My mom used to say: "All people get connected with violent things like 'Carmageddon' or 'Hostel'. The fact is: the people who have God in their hearts aren't affected by those things. The people that don't have God in their hearts, on the other hand, can be influenced by those things. If they grow up in an enviroment when their parents neglect them and they lack love, the violent media can get to them and influence them."

[trekgeezer]

The point I was making is simple, no one takes responsibility for their own actions. There is always some excuse.

I never meant to start a big argument, I just think the whole video game thing is an excuse for people act terribly. I think there should be informative ratings on violent games, but ultimately it's up to parents to monitor what their kids are doing and watching. I've seen far too many of my kids friends whose parents haven't a clue what their kids are up to and some don't even give a damn. Put the blame where it belongs.

The fact is that the biggest group of video game players are young adults, and they should take responsibility for their own actions and not try laying it off on some flimsy excuse of the game made me do it.


If you actually read the article, there is another point to be made about this. This has been studied to death, so do we really need a huge chunk of our already misused tax dollars going to another useless study?

[BTM]

Not to get off-topic, but ont the SAME page, there's an article on how prostitues (oh, wait, I guess they're called "Sex Industry Workers" now, are also called for the ban of the latest GTA game, as it quote, "Promotes the rape and beating of prostitutes."  

I'm serious, I could NOT make this s**t up...

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6144286.html

I really don't know what to say, the article even has a link for a Sex Workers Outreach Project USA.  Now, you'd THINK that's be a company that's trying to get prostitues off the streets and give them the skills they need to pursue, but NO, apparently they're list of accomplishments include:

-­Spearheaded a Berkeley city initiative to decriminalize prostitution.
-Gained state and local recognition for our efforts to bring sex workers rights issues to the forefront
-Organized three annual memorial events to remember the victims of the Green River killings
-Organized and sponsored dozens of sex worker related arts and education events, including a financial management seminar for exotic dancers.
-Extended our national presence with chapters in Alabama, Arizona, Nevada, Texas, and on the UCLA campus
-Allied with local and national human rights and sex workers right organizations

What's really crazy is two of the people who run this thing supposedly have PHDs (In what I don't know) but I guess a college education really ISN"T what it used to be...

(Course, I could have told you that a looong time ago...)

[Neville]

Have you all realised that all criminals in the world have just a few common denominators?

- They all have drank water at some point in their lives.

- Most of them attended school for at least one day.

- 100%, absolutely all of them, breath air.

If we ban all those three things, the world would be much safer.

[Mr_Vindictive]

See, I don't practice religion.  I'm not a religious person.  I'm an avid gamer, and I enjoy the GTA games, and some of the other games you mentioned such as Carmageddon....although that is a dated game.  I enjoyed Hostel, and thought it was a great film.

Despite all of this, I'm a peaceful person and consider to be a bit of a pacifist.  You don't exactly see me going out and murdering people nor torturing small animals.  

It's not about the games.  It's about the crappy parents who neglect their children and don't give them the love/attention that they deserve.  People need to quit blaming games as the cause.

I think the main problem is actually the title "Video Game".  When someone mentions video games, we always think of kids.  That's not the case anymore.  There are games for children, and then there are games for adults.  It's another form of digital entertainment and not something that should have such a "childish" stigmata attached to it.  Kids shouldn't be able to purchase games made specifically for adults.  That is why there are limitations in place, and why the ESRB exists.

[ulthar]

Indeed.

[trekgeezer]

Hey BTM, since when do you think PHDs are somehow more intelligent than the average person? I work in a building full of them in a thing called an Academic "Institution" (sometimes I think it's the kind people are committed to) and they generally fall into two categories; regular intelligent people with a lot education in a subject they are interested in and those who have a lot education in something they are interested in but  don't have an iota of common sense outside the subject matter their degree is in. (That was a really long sentence).

This is why we get studies on subjects with outcomes that most reasoning people see as a matter of common sense, but the people running the study act as though it's something astounding.  
.

[The Conqueroo]

Trek Geezer;My Man!!You Remember Vic Morrow in "Combat"??SO DO I!!!I Also Remember "Gunsmoke";"Man From Uncle";"Have Gun Will Travel"And All Those Shows!!My Guess Is You Must Be In Your Late Forties/Early Fifties.(I'm 47 Myself.).But I Do Agree With You.I Think It's Up To The Individual When It Comes To Movies/TV Shows/Video Games.Not The Government."People Shouldn't Be Afraid Of Their Government.Government Should Be Afraid Of Their People."-'V for Vendetta'.

[The Conqueroo]

"It's Hard Out Here For A Pimp!!"Is All I Can Say About It!!

[trekgeezer]

I'll be 51 in April. When I was kid the majority of tv shows (of the 1 hour drama type) were Westerns. Bonanza, Gunsmoke, Big Valley, Have Gun Will Travel, Wanted Dead or Alive (I loved Steve McQueen's little sawed off Winchester), The Rifleman, etc, etc.

The things I liked most were Outer Limits (though it usually managed to scare the crap out of me), Twilight Zone, Star Trek, Man from U.N.C.L.E, and Get Smart. It was really the Golden Age of tv.

Funny thing is how many of those 60's shows are still showing all the time somewhere, can't say that for a lot of the dreck out there nowadays.

By the way Conqueroo, welcome to Badmovies.org!

[The Conqueroo]

I'm not bad mouthing Catholicism.I have very many friends who are Catholic.I also have nothing really bad to say about Fundamentalists.I mean,I come from a long line of Baptists;Methodists and Presbyterians and I'm Tenth Generation Scots-Irish.As long as they don't go blow stuff up like Islamic Fundamentalists or Protest at People's Funerals like the Reverend Fred Phelps and his followers,I have no tack with them either!!"When I Eat Too Much,I Tend To regurgitate.Some Hits The Table,But Most Hits The Plate.I Like To eat,Then see What I Ate.That's Why My Stomach Gets A Cramp."-'That's Why My Stomach Gets A Cramp'by Snotra.

[BTM]

trek_geezer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey BTM, since when do you think PHDs are somehow
> more intelligent than the average person?

Actually, I don't, I was just pointing out the irony.  

:)

[The Conqueroo]

Much Oblidged Trekkie.Yeah,I Still Love War Movies and Westerns.My Idea Of A Good Sunday Morning Is To Sleep Until About Nine or Ten AM;Eat A Plate Of Huevos Rancheros;Read The Sunday Funnies;Then Put "Flying Leathernecks";"The Hunters";"Thunder Road";"Red River";"True Grit";"Winchester 73"and/or "The High and the Mighty"In The DVD And Veg Out On The Sofa All Day!!*(*Yes,I Know By What They taught Me In Sunday School That Idle Hands Are the Devil's Workshop,But Then Again,Translated From Hebrew Literally Means "Day of Rest".So Basically I'm Just Enjoying My Day of Rest.).And I Admit It,I Still Love To Hear Richard Widmark Yell "COME ON MEN,GIVE 'EM HELL!!!"At The End Of "Halls of Montezuma"and It's All I Can Do To Keep From Crying at The end of "Saving Private Ryan".My Real Guilty Pleasure,Really Bad SciFi!!I Mean MST3K Stuff Like "The Giant Gila Monster";"Prince of Space";stuff like that!! "When I Was A Kid,They Taught Us In Sunday School That People Who Drank Beer;Smoked Cigarettes and Played Dominoes Would Not Enter The Kingdom of Heaven.If That's True,Then I've Been Hell Bound Since I Was Eight Years Old!!"-Willie Hugh Nelson.

[raj]

Video games are actually very important for our national defense

"The U.S. Army has discovered a remote control gun turret that works, and cannot get enough of them. The army wants over 9,000 CROWS (common remotely operated weapon stations),. . .

The guys operating these systems grew up playing video games. They developed skills in operating systems (video games) very similar to the CROWS controls. This was important, because viewing the world around the vehicle via a vidcam is not as enlightening (although a lot safer) than having your head and chest exposed to the elements, and any firepower the enemy sends your way. But experienced video gamers are skilled at whipping that screen view around, and picking up any signs of danger. "

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20060310.aspx