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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Good Movies  |  SiCKO « previous next »
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AnubisVonMojo
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« on: July 03, 2007, 12:02:11 AM »

Not to be confused with S.I.C.K.: Serial Insane Clown KillerTongueOut

Granted, Michael Moore haters aren't likely to give this movie/documentery a viewing, but I think everyone should at least see it once. Unlike Moore's last entry, in which everyone accused him of having a left-wing political agenda, I don't feel that SiCKO can be attributed to any self-serving cause. How is Moore showing off the corruption and lobbying of the medical industry going to be construed as some type of leftist self-interest campaign? Sure, there are those who could say Moore went through the effort simply because he intends to make money off of exploiting the unfortunate, and for those who feel that way then I hope you didn't have much faith in me because I "fell for it".

SiCKO taught me a few things, and considering the forum on which I'm posting right now, I thought it appropriate to borrow from Mr. Borntreger's book and do a little "Things I Learned From This Movie" segment of my own:
  • When I come back in my next life, I hope it's as a citizen of Canada, Great Britain or, yes, even France.
  • If you are part of a terrorist plot against the United States, you're given free health care... I guess to balance out the torture, thus making those Geneva Accords jerks happy.
  • There are websites dedicated to helping Americans marry Canadian citizens so they can benefit from free health care on the other side of the border.
  • A medical proceedure to help a deaf child hear in one ear is fine, but using it on both ears is considered "experimental".
  • Threatening people with Michael Moore will get you what you want.
  • Having a yeast infection at some point in your life will void your health insurance after you have expensive surgery.
  • A million dollar house in London isn't as fancy as you'd expect and doesn't even include a big screen plasma TV.
  • The French government will raise your children and do your laundry for you if you ask them to.
  • The cashier in a British hospital is solely there to reimburse people for their ambulance rides.
  • In Cuba, prescription drugs cost .00042% of what they do in the US.
  • Ronald Reagan once did PSA scare records for the government.
  • Richard Nixon needs to be ressurected from the dead, given immortality, then chained to a wall and beaten with his own spinal column for the rest of eternity.
  • Michael Moore can save your spouse's life, but only if you hate him more than anyone else does.
  • I can no longer support Hillary Clinton.
  • George Bush is still an evil moron.

I laughed, I shed a few tears, I balled my fists several times and tried to figure out how long it would take me to move to Canada and get citizenship. If you choose to remain ignorant or just prefer not to trust the guy for whatever reason, don't see the movie. It's not for everybody. But, if you enjoyed any of his prior projects and are open to painful information about why the US is the 37th ranked country in terms of world health care (taking it with a grain of salt of course, as I doubt Moore would want you to blindly follow everything he says anyway), then by all means see it.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007, 12:23:09 AM »

I haven't seen the movie and don't know that I will - I frankly regard Michael Moore as a propagandist for America's worst enemies, not to mention a self-righteous jerk.  But the issue of medical care really hits home with me right now.  My daughter has an appointment with a surgeon on Friday, and since we are not covered at the moment we will be paying for the operation out of pocket.

 NOW, if I lived in Britain or Canada, the surgery would be free, and I would not have to sell a significant chunk of my artifact collection to pay for it. That would be nice.
  BUT - I would have to wait about two years to have the surgery done by a state-paid medical doctor.  In that time, the tiny Cholesteotoma on her eardrum would have grown inward, destroying the bones of her inner ear and making her permanently deaf on one side, and might well spread into the bones of the skull, causing partial facial paralysis and possible brain damage.  As it is, the growth on her eardrum will be removed within six weeks of detection and any hearing loss should be minimal.

Yes, people from America go to Britain and Canada to get free care.  But people from Britain and Canada come to the U S to get QUALITY care, and to get it FAST.  Our system sucks, no doubt, but socialized medicine tends to result in mediocre care that takes YEARS to treat problems we deal with in weeks.  I wish there was a way to combine the quality and quickness of the care we get here in America with the low cost of care in other countries . . . but I don't think there is.

Tell you what, though - I will watch SICKO when it comes out on video.  At least he's not propagandizing for Muslim terrorists in this one.
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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2007, 12:44:28 AM »

As you can imagine, Moore addresses the "socializing health care leads to waiting so long for service that people die in the process" deal, mostly with the comparison that it's no more realistic than the "red scare" propaganda of the cold war days. Obviously nobody can speculate on that kind of thing without first experiencing it, and I don't hold Moore's presentation in any higher regard than someone who's slanted against the idea would portray it in their own film, but I'd like to think that the concept is more a scare tactic than fact. Especially given the kind of money the medical industry lobbyists toss into the pockets of politicians, Hillary included. If anybody knows of some place online where I can check hard statistical facts relating to the matter of how long people needed to wait for major surgery in nations with universal health care, I'd be interested in checking them out.
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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2007, 02:09:53 PM »

For anyone interested in what Moore got right and what he got wrong in SiCKO
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007, 02:20:29 PM »

I envy you big city fellers.  You get to see all the good movies first!

I personally value Michael Moore's muckraking and as a social worker who has been forced to buy her own health insurance in the past for some very expensive health problems, I really can't wait to see this one.  9/11 didn't especially send me, except for all the boss footage of W talking about "armadillas," but Bowling For Columbine rocked my world and this subject?  VERY close to my heart.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2007, 02:22:11 PM by Fishasaurus » Logged

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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2007, 02:34:36 PM »

You should really envy us because we actually still have a theater that's carrying 5 showings of Hot Fuzz a day and one that's still showing Grindhouse once-a-night.  TeddyR
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"A grizzly bear with a chainsaw. Now THERE's a killing machine!" - The Simpsons
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2007, 10:49:41 AM »

Ok might want to look if these if you want, has nothing to do with Sicko just the difference between National and Private health care ...

Cancer survival rates worst in western Europe | Uk News | News | Telegraph
Insurance - UK 'worst' on cancer drug access
www.bowgroup.org/harriercollectionitems/HealthStandards.pdf
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa532.pdf
Health Affairs Blog
No Oil for Pacifists
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Snivelly
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2007, 11:08:39 AM »

I have to agree with IndianaSmith, our system's not perfect but at least you can get treatment quickly. 

I won't see this until it comes out on video, and even then it won't be a priority because I think Moore is a crappy filmmaker personally.  That's not because of my personal politics, I just think he's seriously overrated.  I am wondering, does he address the costs of people who use hospital ERs for minor issues and the stranglehold that insurance companies have on the whole industry?  I have a brother who is a doctor, and one of the things I've learned from him is that the only people really making money off medicine in this country are the insurance companies and big pharmaceutical firms.
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2007, 12:29:53 PM »

There has got to be an equilibrium between our medical care and socialized medicine.
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2007, 12:45:37 PM »

guys-  I hang around a lot of libertarian forums and there is dead silence on this.  It's like they don't want to admit that the free market has failed. 


and i'd say it has for the reason that here in massachusetts the state insurance that omney started is like 200 dollars cheaper than the regular insurance and it's prety much the same.
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Him
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 04:31:11 PM »

There has got to be an equilibrium between our medical care and socialized medicine.

The US medical care system needs more government regulation. If you put buisness people in charge of health care, they are going to be focused on making more money than with providing healthcare to customers. The equilibrium would be creating a government agency that monitors the activities of the health insurance companies, and forces them to follow an established set of rules.
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Him
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2007, 04:35:14 PM »



According to your links, the problem in the UK is access to new cancer drugs. Not cancer drugs in general. That's due to their drug approval proccess being slow. And I don't see any comparisons between national and private health care. I only see comparisons between UK's health care and the health care of other European countries.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 04:40:27 PM by Him » Logged
Susan
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2007, 04:49:27 PM »

1. Don't opt for HMO unless you want your health in someone elses hands. They're cheap but you get what you pay for. Most of those nightmare stories you hear about where people are turned away or not given the care they need are because they were on an HMO. Look into HSA accounts

2. Read your policy carefully

3. There are numerous reasons why insurance is so expensive. Patients often run a battery of unecessary and expensive 'new technology' tests. Another reason why premiums are high is frivolous lawsuits on doctors and hospitals. And yet another reason is the amount of sick people vs healthy people opting for insurance. Sounds crazy yeah, but many healthy people think 'why do i need it'. More sick people who need medical treatment will pick up insurance so they can get their expenses covered. But that means more out of pocket for everyone, because more claims are filed. So it's actually good for everyone if more healthy people get insured, it's going to lower the cost overall.

Obesity is also on the rise, i think we need to be a healthier nation.

Sure i'd like free health care but i'd also question the real quality i'd be receiving and i'd be wary of all the taxes forced upon me to pay for it. Either way you're going to be paying for it. I like that Michael moore brings certain topics to the limelight for discussion. But I also realize he has a heavy slant
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Him
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2007, 08:36:13 AM »

. And yet another reason is the amount of sick people vs healthy people opting for insurance. Sounds crazy yeah, but many healthy people think 'why do i need it'. More sick people who need medical treatment will pick up insurance so they can get their expenses covered. But that means more out of pocket for everyone, because more claims are filed. So it's actually good for everyone if more healthy people get insured, it's going to lower the cost overall.
In a nation health system, everyone who works pays into it whether they are sick or not. That means there would be alot more money in the pot.

Obesity is also on the rise, i think we need to be a healthier nation.
The obesity problem in the US is a symtom that many Americans don't care about their health. That is the reason why there is no National health service.

Sure i'd like free health care but i'd also question the real quality i'd be receiving and i'd be wary of all the taxes forced upon me to pay for it. Either way you're going to be paying for it.
Is the extra Tax money really more important than your health?
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2007, 08:43:09 AM »

Sure i'd like free health care but i'd also question the real quality i'd be receiving and i'd be wary of all the taxes forced upon me to pay for it. Either way you're going to be paying for it.

If you're forced to pay a health care tax, then how is it free?
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