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October 20, 2014, 06:34:42 PM
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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Good Movies  |  Wizard Of Oz Thoughts « previous next »
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Author Topic: Wizard Of Oz Thoughts  (Read 8256 times)
Mortal Envelope
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2007, 02:35:59 PM »

All I know is that the flying monkeys have to represent politicians hahaha!
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2007, 03:38:43 PM »

All I know is that the flying monkeys have to represent politicians hahaha!

If he was into the occult he would have known that in the East the monkey is considered to be like the mind which is always jumping around, so in the story Dorthy is thinking to much about getting home. Then she later finds out she only needs to repeat the prayer of the heart "There's no place like home". When you use the mind the heart is absent. The intellect (or mind) is only to be used to ward of evil. It can't enter the holy of holies. The mind is a weapon or tool that God has given mankind to fend off evil and help lead man back to the heart.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 08:46:19 PM by Scott » Logged

Oldskool138
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2007, 05:44:08 PM »

All I know is that the flying monkeys have to represent politicians hahaha!

If he was into the occult he would have known that in the East the monkey is considered to be like the mind which is always jumping around, so in the story Dorthy is thinking to much about getting home. When as the she later finds out she only needs to repeat the prayer of the heart "There's no place like home". When you use the mind the heart is absent. The intellect (or mind) is only to be used to ward of evil. It can't enter the holy of holies. The mind is a weapon or tool that God has given mankind to fend off evil and help lead man back to the heart.

The monkeys (in the book) are actually good but the Witch of the West had them under her control.  She has a hat that lets he order the monkeys to do her bidding three times (I think).  I think this is shown in the movie when the Witch is pacing around her tower.  In fact, I think one of the monkeys gives it to her right before she sics the monkeys on Dorthy.
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Scott
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2007, 06:05:14 PM »

The monkeys (in the book) are actually good but the Witch of the West had them under her control.  She has a hat that lets he order the monkeys to do her bidding three times (I think).  I think this is shown in the movie when the Witch is pacing around her tower.  In fact, I think one of the monkeys gives it to her right before she sics the monkeys on Dorthy.

Interesting. The monkeys can be good or bad.

Here is where the mind (monkeys) carry Dorthy even further away from home into the hands of the evil witch.
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Mortal Envelope
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2007, 06:36:19 PM »

I suppose, that ...in the wrong hands...the mind can be a dangerous thing.

I think I'm going to have to watch this flick again...it's been awhile.

Maybe a Freudian perspective is in order!  hahaha j/k
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Oldskool138
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2007, 06:38:03 PM »


Interesting. The monkeys can be good or bad.

Here is where the mind (monkeys) carry Dorthy even further away from home into the hands of the evil witch.

They're more neutral/good, but yeah, the Witch can only use them for a finite amount of time.

You should really read the book.  It's not too long and it will give you a deeper understanding of the movie and see what the director left out.  (i.e.- monsters with the heads of tigers and the bodies of bears, the china (porcelain) people, the people without arms but can headbut people with their long expanding necks, the mice that save Dorthy and the Lion from the field of poppies).  The book is very surreal, IMO.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 06:39:53 PM by Oldskool138 » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2007, 09:02:36 PM »

You should really read the book.  It's not too long and it will give you a deeper understanding of the movie and see what the director left out. 

Perhaps sometime I will look it up. Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 08:48:09 PM by Scott » Logged

Oldskool138
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2007, 09:52:23 PM »

Sometime I will pick it up. Thanks.

Yeah I'll probably put down "A Man in Full" by Thomas Wolfe (Bonfire of the Vanities) and reread "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz".
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« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2007, 10:29:16 PM »

Now, now, fellas, I leave for the afternoon, and I come back to find that you've gone and done exactly what I told you not to do.  TongueOut TWOZ is not about religion. The book, according to Baum, was his attempt to compose a truly American fairy tale. He was a storyteller and loved entertaining kids with his stories. TWOZ was his big success, but it was a simple fairy tale, one with no greater purpose than to entertain children. He had no intention of critiquing politics (although I will agree with Mortal Envelope's comment about flying monkeys being good symbols for politicians) or of telling a story of a religious journey.

Scott, I can't say your interpretation is wrong; no interpretation can be disproven, and if that is the way you choose to view the movie, then so be it (like I could stop you Smile). The problem with interpretations is that they seldom have anything to do with the author's intent. In the case of TWOZ, there is nothing in the story that says to the viewer, "This is a religous tale." Religion never comes up. Yes, Oz can easily be seen as a God figure, but the characters, even in the Emerald City, never worship him; at most, they fear him. This doesn't do much to establish a religious context. If anything, he represents the idolization of one human to another; Dorothy puts her faith in him, only to be shown that that is a poor place to put one's faith. The Wizard is a humbug, a good man, but not worthy of being someone's idol. Dorothy learns this as she learns to rely on herself and the abilities she has discovered in herself (see my previous posts in this thread). No religion; just good old American self reliance.
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« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2007, 08:44:55 PM »

Now, now, fellas, I leave for the afternoon, and I come back to find that you've gone and done exactly what I told you not to do.  TongueOut

 BounceGiggle

Scott, I can't say your interpretation is wrong; no interpretation can be disproven, and if that is the way you choose to view the movie, then so be it (like I could stop you Smile).

Smile

The problem with interpretations is that they seldom have anything to do with the author's intent.

Well....I honestly don't know anything about Baum, but if he were an occultist he wouldn't admit it if he were trying to sell a book to a large audience.

Perhaps the director of the film was more influenced by religion than Baum.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 08:50:17 PM by Scott » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2007, 10:50:20 PM »

Directors.  Though Victor Fleming gets the on-screen credit (I think), two others shot footage included in the final cut, including King Vidor, and a fourth director shot unused footage.   

In a way I agree with both Scott and Derf (though Derf more).  I was surprised at how Scott took that kernel of religion and ran with it to create a detailed allegory of the soul's journey to enlightenment.  I'd quibble with some details, and especially with the idea of dragging in occultic symbols, but overall a very good job.  I don't think Baum intended Scott's interpretation directly, but I doubt he'd be much offended, either.

   
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« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2007, 11:05:08 PM »

Baum like any writer may have just been building off of what ever came to his mind which would be based somewhat on legends and religion he was already familiar with. The context being parallel simply because it's part of his and other peoples background and therefore the make up of the psyche. It's not easy to create something from nothing. It's usually something similar or a combination of 2 or more things to create something original.

You can go to Washington D.C. to the Smithsonian and see the actual ruby shoes that Judy Garland wears in the film.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 11:12:57 PM by Scott » Logged

HappyGilmore
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« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2007, 09:02:12 PM »

As a kid I used to love the Scarecrow and Tin Man. 

Now, surprisingly I actually think Burt Lahr steals it as The Cowardly Lion. 

And I still say the Flying Monkeys are the coolest part.
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« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2007, 09:13:41 PM »

As a kid I used to love the Scarecrow and Tin Man. 

Now, surprisingly I actually think Burt Lahr steals it as The Cowardly Lion. 

Me too!  I guess I didn't appreciate his performance when I was a kid because I wasn't familiar with the comedy of the day.  (I didn't like the Marx Brothers until I got older too).  I think he steals just about every scene he's in.

Like the Scarecrow and Tin Man but every time he wipes his eyes with his tail cracks me up and when he asks if he nose is bleeding after Dorothy smacks him.  Still, the "King of the Forrest" song borders on the annoying but I'll give him a pass on that.
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He learned almost too late that man is a feeling creature... and because of it, the greatest in the universe........
-Dr. Paul Nelson (Peter Graves)

That gum you like is going to come back in style.
-The Man from Another Place
HappyGilmore
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« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2007, 09:22:33 PM »

The "King' song he sings is annoying, but overall I liked his performance.  I watched it when it was on last week and started laughing when he pulls his own tail and doesn't realize it.

Or when Scarecrow came up with a plan for Lion, and Lion's like, "Who me? Hey do me a favor.  Talk me out of it."
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"The path to Heaven runs through miles of clouded Hell."

Donít get too close, itís dark inside.
Itís where my demons hide, itís where my demons hide.
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