The Golden Compass: good or bad?

[indianasmith]

I noticed your modification after I posted my reply and wondered how that extra text got there . . . .


and in response to the latter part of it, I will say that in the purely humanistic definition of "morality", atheists are capable of remarkable acts of decency, humanity, and kindness.  I have enjoyed the company of many atheist friends over time, and we have had frequent, and very spirited, discussions on a wide range of moral and religious issues.

As far as the meat of my comments above, I'll just say this:  all my statements are based on the premise that truth is absolute, and that what I believe is indeed the truth.  No . . . that doesn't convey what I am trying to say either.  OK, lessee . . . if I am right, and Jesus of Nazareth was in fact a living incarnation of the Almighty, then religions, philosophies, and belief systems that deny that fact CANNOT be true.  However, if I am wrong, then any other belief system is equally as valid as mine.  That is why I have put a great deal of research into trying to confirm what I believe through history.

As far as joining another  skeptics/agnostics forum . . . I spent 2 years going at it with several atheists and agnostics, plus a Jewish rabbi and a healthy sprinkling of pagans, on a Religion/Philosophy forum over at Easyboards.com a number of years ago.  It was fun and I learned a lot (and hopefully taught a bit too), but in the end it became rather tedious as I wound up repeating myself over and over.

I did post a lot of my reasons for believing as I do in a thread on this board entitled "My Issues With THE DA VINCI CODE" earlier this year.  At any rate, karma to you for a gentlemanly discussion, and my apologies if you find me offensive . . .

[Mortal Envelope]

Nah it's ok  .  I like theists too :) - heck, got a lot of em in my family and all :)  -it's just too easy to ruffle someone's feathers regarding such a topic.  Sorry if I came off condescending; it's just that it's easy for me to jump the gun with a lot of prior experience of being insulted just for not believing the same.   You don't know how many times I've been called immoral just because I don't share the same belief structure.   Sometimes it feels like when a salesman starts insulting ya when ya don't buy their product.  Anyway, it's coo' - I realize that wasn't your intent.  Good karma for you too - I know your heart's in the right place and that's all that really matters right?

Existentialism is one touchy subject, which is why I usually try to avoid it (along with political discussions or discussions about child-raising - seems no two people have the same opinions on any of these subjects).

Anyway...this movie could go either way...it could be an interesting, enlightening fantasy flick or it could be Atheistic rolling pile of turd lol.

Take it easy.

[CheezeFlixz]

Well our local theater is not going to show "The Golden Compass" as they are bending to local religious pressure from some of the churches. I believe churches have the right to tell their respective flocks what they think of the movie (even if they haven't seen it and are knee jerk reacting), but the churches need to keep their politics's inside the church, some of the church even threatened to picket and protest the theater if they showed it.

Church want freedom of religion and the right to place nativity scenes on the courthouse lawn, the right to display the 10 commandments in schools and the right to prayer. But they cry foul when someone doesn't want it and claim freedom, then soon as something comes along they don't agree with they want it banned.

I respect religion and I even darken the steps of church from time to time, but I have no time for hypocrisies, wanting your religious rights is fine, but wanting to ban/judge anything you haven't even seen based solely on opinion and altering the rights of others through pressure and threats is just ... un-Christian.

But the harshest words Jesus ever spoke were directed at those who deliberately damaged or destroyed the faith of little children - "If any man causes one of these little ones who believes in Me to stumble, it would be better for that man to have a millstone tied around his neck, and be cast into the depths of the sea."

You know what Matt: 7:1 says I'm sure, and if you continue on to Mat 7:2-5 you'll know that this verse 7:1 is not speaking to not judging at all -- it is speaking to not judging unfair or any other cheap and selfish way.

To judge without seeing something is unfair. To many Christian tend to knee jerk and join the negative propaganda campaign without ever checking the facts or investigating  themselves. I was called by a church member of protest the movie, and call all the theaters (local) to get them to not show the movie. So I asked have you seen it? No they replied, so I asked 'Then what gives you the right to condemn what you haven't seen?" They babbled about the book and the connection so I asked "Have you read the book?" No, again was the answer so again I asked "Then what gives you the right to condemn what you haven't read?"
They grew angry because I wouldn't blindly follow the mob of ignorance and hysteria based solely on some press release and hung up on me after saying I'd answer to God.

I'm ok with that.

[indianasmith]

You have a valid point.  I did read the DA VINCI CODE book, but I did not see the film after that because the book was enough for me.

I don't know that I want to read the HIS DARK MATERIALS trilogy which THE GOLDEN COMPASS is based on.  The author's own words about the book, plus the numerous quotes and excerpts I have read, have enabled me to form a provisional judgement. 

As far as religiously offensive movies go, I will personally advise my friends and church members to avoid them, but as a rule, I'm not real big on picketing theaters and all that . . . all it does is give the film involved free publicity.  I will be curious to see how it does commercially - I gather the DA VINCI CODE movie was a bit of a flop.

[CheezeFlixz]

You have a valid point.  I did read the DA VINCI CODE book, but I did not see the film after that because the book was enough for me.

I saw the movie and from a purely cinematic point of view it sucked. I guess I know to much about da Vinci and the Templars from reading real history that I couldn't make those leaps of belief.

I'll see the movie and I won't be looking for hidden messages or undertones of atheism I'll be looking to be entertained. In the words of Gladiator "Are you not entertained?"

[Shadow]

I gather the DA VINCI CODE movie was a bit of a flop.

$758 million worldwide. Studios just love flops like that.

The Golden Compass looks interesting, though I'll wait for DVD. I tend to purposely tune out any overt religious and/or political messages in films and just enjoy them at face value.

[indianasmith]

I gather the DA VINCI CODE movie was a bit of a flop.

$758 million worldwide. Studios just love flops like that.

The Golden Compass looks interesting, though I'll wait for DVD. I tend to purposely tune out any overt religious and/or political messages in films and just enjoy them at face value.

Did it do that well?  I just remember that it opened fairly big, and after that, seemed to fade.  It may have made up for it in DVD rentals, I don't know.  If I was wrong, I stand corrected.

[CheezeFlixz]

I gather the DA VINCI CODE movie was a bit of a flop.

$758 million worldwide. Studios just love flops like that.

The Golden Compass looks interesting, though I'll wait for DVD. I tend to purposely tune out any overt religious and/or political messages in films and just enjoy them at face value.

Did it do that well?  I just remember that it opened fairly big, and after that, seemed to fade.  It may have made up for it in DVD rentals, I don't know.  If I was wrong, I stand corrected.

Nope it made about a billion bucks worldwide, I don't know why it really wasn't that good of a movie IMHO.

[Killer Bees]

I want to see it because I'm a big fan of the fantasy genre.  Also, Nicole Kidman, even though she's a fellow Aussie, is notoriously bad in most films, so I want to see if she stinks  in this one.

I believe in God, but not the religious dogma that religions today cling to.  I don't have a problem with a film bagging God.  I don't take it personally.  And I can enjoy it on it's own merits.  When I see a movie, I leave my personal beliefs at the door and just enjoy the film for what it is - entertainment.

The religious types who get all crazy about stuff like this really should give themselves a head butt and get on with their lives.  Sheesh, people, it's all make believe! 

[dean]

Killer Bees: Kidman hasn't really had a winner in a while.  She's not a bad actress and all, but seems to make more wrong decisions than right ones [Stepford Wives anyone?]

I've long since ignored the fact that she's an Aussie long ago, it saves me from being burnt when I'm in that patriotic mood [from Melbourne here by the by]

As for the religious side of things, well, I'm not a big fan of censorship in general, so for me its more of an issue of censorship rather than faith.  Believe what you want, go ahead, but I should not be banned from watching anything just because someone else disagrees with it.  If it is controversial in nature, I think it actually promotes intelligent discussion, in that you can pick apart a text/film etc and point out why it is wrong and reassert your own point of view.  If your view can't hold up to it, then it couldn't have been strong enough in the first place.  Or like others have mentioned, you can just not watch it in the first place, problem solved.

I find that a much more intelligent approach, but unfortunately it's been my experience that those who do protest these sort of things don't usually seem to be altogether that intelligent to begin with.


As for the movie, I'm a sucker for fantasy, so shall see it in one form or another eventually regardless of the message.  As long as the movie is fun that's enough for me.  I'm not expecting altogether that much though I must say.

[frank]

That was about the most reasonable discussion of this topic I've read in awhile (that were quite a few).

This is a nice forum...


(or it is the Christmas spirit infecting everyone, BTW nice avatar cheezeflixz)

I'll keep my comments to the movie. Not sure if I'll see it. I'm a bit tired of fantasy trilogies, or trilogies in general, or quadologies,... In fact it gets on my nerves tremendously, that no one seems to be able to fit some plot into just one film.

[Flangepart]

[quote author=Mortal Envelope link=topic=117056.msg172905#msg172905
Still, I think the author's venomous attitude could ultimately be self-defeating.  In a sense, I think it might be a more acceptable if the message aimed at kids was that it's ok to have questions, not buy what you've been told just because you've been told, or that it's ok to believe what you believe or that it's ok to not believe.  

This is why I really admire the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.  Think what you will about the movie vs the book series vs the radio show but in my mind, it's the most happy, positive, Atheist stories I've ever encountered ...and I've never come away from the books, radio, or movie thinking anything negative about theism.
[/quote]

Fair enough.
The authors arrogance is no different then that of the...whats that "God hates fags" group? You know the one... Its a desire to hurt people, and I  guess get a 'power rush' from it. A less lethal form of the celebrity killer, like the guy who shot John Lennon.
The ultimate 'Look at me! Look at me!' attitude, so to speak.

But yeah. Not watching it. Its just the same old Hollywood mindset. Like, Whatever dude..
And personaly, I often like to quote Marvin the Paranoid Android.

[Joe]

i wanna see that flick about the lochness monster, the waterhorse i think its called. its a kids movie but i dig the lochness monster.

[AndyC]

Well, I probably shouldn't jump in here, but what the hey.

I'm generally of the opinion that hardcore Christians and hardcore athiests have a lot more in common than they'd care to admit. Both take the events in the Bible literally, and both seem to think that if it isn't the literal truth, it's a worthless lie. The main difference is in the side of the fence they ended up on.

For me, if something is completely plausible and believable, it doesn't take much faith to believe in it, which is sort of the point. I belong to a Christian church, but I will honestly say I don't believe all the stories actually happened the way they were described. I believe the value of the scriptures is in putting them into their original context and seeing what they have to tell us. The quote I always bring up comes from an old TV special on archaeologists searching for the remains of Noah's Ark. As one theologian pointed out "If you're looking for the boat, you've missed the point."

When it comes down to it, I believe there is a higher power in the universe, an intelligence or at least a purpose behind things. I believe there is much more going on than we can currently comprehend, and to say there isn't suggests we think there is no more to learn. That's something else that connects the two extreme views on this issue. Religious extremists likewise think the answers can be found in a single book.

For me, religion is a philosophical journey, and the truth a work in progress. Keep an open mind, ask questions, learn all you can and keep putting the pieces together. Religion as we know it is evolving just as we are. It's our imperfect human way of understanding the incomprehensible. Unfortunately, on both sides of this moderate view, we have the people who say it's a fact that the entire world was flooded miles deep by 40 days of rain, and the people who say it's impossible. There are some of us who say "fine, but what does it teach us?"

What always frustrates me is that the name "Christian," much like the name "Muslim," is getting monopolized by people with very extreme beliefs who probably do more damage to the cause of religion in the things they say and do than any atheist ever could.

Oh, and I have no interest in seeing The Golden Compass. No reason. It just doesn't excite me.

[Torgo]

Did it do that well?  I just remember that it opened fairly big, and after that, seemed to fade.  It may have made up for it in DVD rentals, I don't know.  If I was wrong, I stand corrected.

Nope it made about a billion bucks worldwide, I don't know why it really wasn't that good of a movie IMHO.

Must've been that AWESOME hair style that Tom Hanks was sporting in it.