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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Weird News Stories  |  Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship...and then kill a few people. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship...and then kill a few people.  (Read 1493 times)
ulthar
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 07:22:57 PM »


NO actually I don't like leaders of foreign countries saying 9/11 was a good thing and I can fault him for that and I do.

it was a national tragedy and if anyone feels it benefits them they are disturbed.



He said that Israel was benefiting from the attack...not that it was a good thing.

Was it "disturbed" to recognize a benefit to a nation from something that has happened?  He made a simple statement of fact.  Just like it is a fact that the US Civil War benefited the Northern states' economies at the expense of the those in the south, just like the US benefited in the 1950's from the success in WWII.

Pearl Harbor was a national tragedy and the one most often compared to the 9/11 attack, yet due to our involvement in the war, much industry was ramped up, millions of jobs were created and the depression was completely ended, etc.  Should we ignore the fact that out of the tragedy of the all the lives lost in WWII that the country benefited?  Is saying the US benefited from WWII "disturbed?"

As for Netanyahu, liking him or hating him is up to the individual, but one thing is for sure.  He understands that for a national leader of a country at war, sometimes he has to make big-boy decisions.  Just as Washington (who had deserters shot in front of the troops to set an example), Lincoln, Churchill, Rooseveldt, Hitler and just about every major national leader throughout history has had to do.  I don't see any of the Caesars denying Rome any advantage they could fine no matter who paid the cost for that advantage.

None of this means he LIKES that 9/11 happened.  It only means that out of the ashes, he sees something positive for HIS country - and that is his job and responsibility. 

Well, like Indiana, I think I'm done on this topic.  We'll also have to agree to disagree that Netanyahu's statement is somehow morally objectionable in an objective sense.
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dean
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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2010, 06:01:27 AM »

I have a question: Why the raid at night [or at least early morning when the light is no good]?  That seems more of a tactical choice than reacting to an immediate threat...

In any case, I've found alot of Israel's methods to be extremely heavy handed, and this is just another sad example of that.  Sure, they're being attacked on every side in many cases and I'm all for defending yourself, but it does get to the point where I start to worry that the response is much more severe than the initial inciting incident, especially considering alot of the civilian casualties...  I guess I'd prefer them to take the high ground rather than the route they've been taking lately.

Watching some of the footage on the news tonight made me wonder whether such lethal force was necessary: thus far they have found no evidence of firearms, and in fact the crew on the flotillas were using poles and chairs as weapons, alongside slingshots and a knife or two.

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Doggett
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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2010, 06:48:41 AM »

Watching some of the footage on the news tonight made me wonder whether such lethal force was necessary: thus far they have found no evidence of firearms, and in fact the crew on the flotillas were using poles and chairs as weapons, alongside slingshots and a knife or two.

Chairs, slingshots...knifes!

No wonder Israel felt the need to gun some of them down.
They could've taken down the whole country with that kinda firepower !

I'm sorry, even if they did feel like there was a genuine threat, this was done completely wrong.
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2010, 06:56:37 AM »

I'm sure they were armed because they thought that they might end up under attack...
Which, as it turns out, they were right.

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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2010, 07:38:10 AM »

at any rate it was not good for anybody.


Quote
Was it "disturbed" to recognize a benefit to a nation from something that has happened?

yes very

Quote from: ulthar
He said that Israel was benefiting from the attack...not that it was a good thing.

what's the difference? the guy is monster for saying what he did and believing it. and he's dead wrong too. if anything 9/11 showed us we aren't wanted in that part of the world and our alliance with israel is a liability not an assett to our security.

Quote
Pearl Harbor was a national tragedy and the one most often compared to the 9/11 attack, yet due to our involvement in the war, much industry was ramped up, millions of jobs were created and the depression was completely ended, etc.  Should we ignore the fact that out of the tragedy of the all the lives lost in WWII that the country benefited?  Is saying the US benefited from WWII "disturbed?"

we didn't benfift from pearl harbour and there was many ways we could have ended the depression besides war. ww 2 was a tragedy. people dying and being killed is tragic. war is bad.


Quote
Just as Washington (who had deserters shot in front of the troops to set an example), Lincoln, Churchill, Rooseveldt, Hitler and just about every major national leader throughout history has had to do.  I don't see any of the Caesars denying Rome any advantage they could fine no matter who paid the cost for that advantage.

I don't see what advantage there would have been in offending the sensiblity of allies by celebrating one of their national tragedies.  If stalin had said pealr harbour was really awesome and FDR had said oh really well you can fight the nazis yourself I doubt people would say that was smart.  

Quote
None of this means he LIKES that 9/11 happened.  It only means that out of the ashes, he sees something positive for HIS country - and that is his job and responsibility.

what does it say about his country that 9/11 was good for it?  that's pretty sad
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 08:33:03 AM by lester1/2jr » Logged

3mnkids
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2010, 08:59:31 AM »

I'm a little tired of Israel playing the victim. They behave like the school bully who's parent just happens to be the principal. Everyone knows the kid is a bully but there's not much you can do about it.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177134

'Next time we'll use more force'
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2010, 10:48:13 AM »

Did it ever occur to these people that running a military blockade is a DANGEROUS thing?  And the blockade is there for a reason.  Many of these "relief" ships carry hundred of RPG's and launchers to fire them with.

3MN, I love ya, but when you are surrounded by millions of people who want you dead, you either get tough, or get dead.  Being all sweet and compassionate is just a quick route to the second option.

And Lester, throwing Israel under the bus would just make those people come after us next.  THEY ARE NOT RATIONAL.  Their favorite saying is "First comes Saturday, then comes Sunday."  In other words, kill all the Jews first, then kill all the Christians.  And they consider ALL Westerners Christians, whether we go to church or not.

So the option is, support a nation that is fighting the battle for Western Civilization FOR us, albeit at times with brutal tactics, or sell that nation out to its enemies . . . and watch those enemies come for us.

Me, I'll stand with Israel.  Period.
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2010, 02:37:46 PM »

So the option is, support a nation that is fighting the battle for Western Civilization FOR us, albeit at times with brutal tactics, or sell that nation out to its enemies . . . and watch those enemies come for us.

If it means condoning and defending questionable and brutal tactics, perhaps the battle for Western Civilization is already lost.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2010, 02:50:11 PM »

Quote
Their favorite saying is "First comes Saturday, then comes Sunday."

their?? I know alot of muslims and none of them ever say that to me or to each other.  who is they?

 
look, al queda is trying to drive us out of the middle east the way they drove the russians out of afghanistan. They didn't then try to convert russia to sharia law. they don't have the power to do that.  You think al queda, a stateless organization of criminals, rich politicians kids and dumb volunteers is going to take over non muslim countries like Italy or CHina?  How would al queda establish sharia law?  we have about a million more pressing concerns than that not even possible enough to be remote possiblity of islam being like communism was. our concerns are terrorism and access to oil. our presence in the middle east is making the former much worse.



Quote
So the option is, support a nation that is fighting the battle for Western Civilization FOR us, albeit at times with brutal tactics, or sell that nation out to its enemies . . . and watch those enemies come for us.

no those aren't our options. if they make it, they make it. it's not up to us.

I have no desire to spread western civilization to the middle east at all. my ancestors came to this country for freedoml not to feed the engine of the worlds police.

Quote
Me, I'll stand with Israel.  Period.

yeah, forget the constitution, which does not mention israel anywhere, because you read a couple demented israeli propaganda books from some right wing book club.

This is about CHILDREN in gaza getting purified water. if you have a problem with children, be the muslim jewish or christian, having clean water I don't know what to say.  that's dangerous thinking.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 03:18:55 PM by lester1/2jr » Logged

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