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Author Topic: Fox News has the oldest audience of any cable channel  (Read 3813 times)
3mnkids
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2010, 01:08:12 PM »

So, again according to Judge Death, it is impossible to be both open-minded and conservative, apparently.  All conservatives must be nasty, bigoted, angry people.
That just seems a little . . . close-minded to me.


Now, 3mn, I did read over your very interesting link.  But what is this about FOX suing for the right to lie to their audience?  Not being sarcastic, but if you have proof I'd like to see it.

Now for you bleeding heart commi pinko libs out there  (see, JD, two can play at that game)  CNN's probably a bit too tilted to the right.  For something that will truly feed your prejudices, you should probably tune in MSNBC, the official mouthpiece of MoveOn.org!

Now, for a quote from another right wing radical:

"Any young man who is not a liberal has no heart.  Any old man who is not a conservative has no brain."   - Winston Churchill


I didnt say they sued. I said they argued.   Smile The case of Jane Akre who says she was fired for refusing to report lies. She sued and won but lost on appeal. Fox argued it has a 1st amendment right to lie... its not breaking any laws... True, I guess. You can google Akre+Fox to find other links.. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/30/201231/262  
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 01:23:51 PM by 3mnkids » Logged

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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2010, 03:33:32 PM »

Stossel and Freedom Watch are really good.
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judge death
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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2010, 05:34:24 PM »

So, again according to Judge Death, it is impossible to be both open-minded and conservative, apparently.  All conservatives must be nasty, bigoted, angry people.
That just seems a little . . . close-minded to me.


Now, 3mn, I did read over your very interesting link.  But what is this about FOX suing for the right to lie to their audience?  Not being sarcastic, but if you have proof I'd like to see it.

Now for you bleeding heart commi pinko libs out there  (see, JD, two can play at that game)  CNN's probably a bit too tilted to the right.  For something that will truly feed your prejudices, you should probably tune in MSNBC, the official mouthpiece of MoveOn.org!

Now, for a quote from another right wing radical:

"Any young man who is not a liberal has no heart.  Any old man who is not a conservative has no brain."   - Winston Churchill
 

The clouds of vitriolic poison the far right has been spewing for the last couple of years (OBAMA IS HITLER! SPAY AND NEUTER LIBERALS! etc) is basically coming back at them in the form of hostility from people who are getting tired of the far right's abuse and hostility towards anyone who's not to the right of atilla the hun.

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Flick James
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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2010, 06:06:25 PM »

I have a theory about the far right conservative Republicans. Not more moderate types like me who support free-market capitalism but also support personal freedoms. No, I'm talking more about the real hate-filled ones that think McCarthyism was a good thing. I work with a few of them and I honestly think that, while they talk about the Islamization of America and support the wars in the middle-east unconditionally and think that all muslims have declared jihad on the American way of life and yadda yadda yadda, my theory is that in secret they actually envy and admire that extreme muslim caricature, the way the women are practically in bondage, the way the people are kept in order through fear of religious law, how they fight not for freedom but for God. Deep down I think they envy that and secretly wish the U.S. fought wars in the name of God proudly. I also think that the really far right ones also have big problems with the establishment clause of the 1st amendment and would prefer it weren't there, whether they want to admit it or not.

Oh, and yes, I do believe Obama is an advocate of socialism. That's one thing I agree with them on. I just think they need to stop whining about it and maybe start educating people about what socialism is. Just saying "Obama is a socialist" isn't going to cut it. They're operating under an assumption that most Americans accept that socialism is not right for America. that's not true. Many don't. So saying "Obama is a socialist" isn't going to cut much mustard, guys. People also need to be educated as to WHY America is not ready for socialism and may even be a very bad idea. It works for some smaller countries, but not for us. That's my opinion, anyway.
 
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the ghoul
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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2010, 06:25:39 PM »

Ho hum it's always the same.  the "right" attacks the "left," the "left" attacks the "right," and as long as they are occupied with all of that meaningless rhetoric, the people on both "sides" will never think outside of the box.  That's how the status quo keeps everything the way they want it to be no matter which "side" gets chosen.

Believing in the virtues of conservatives over liberals or vice versa is kind of like the adult version of believing in Santa Claus.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 07:00:57 PM by the ghoul » Logged
indianasmith
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« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2010, 10:16:24 PM »

I guess, Judge, the thing that ticks me off about statements like the "vitriolic hatred" comment you made above is this -

where was all your righteous indignation for the previous 8 years, when George W. Bush was daily subjected to some of the most vicious, mean-spirited, and frequently outrageously false character assassinations in all of modern American political history?

Yes, there are some stupid, exaggerated, and nasty things being forwarded around about Obama by folks who come from my political side of the aisle.  And much of it may well be untrue and unfair.  All I can say is, we learned the methods by watching you guys for the previous 8 years, as you did all in your power to destroy a decent man doing the best he could at the world's most difficult job.

Now - 3mn - I did read your link.  It is thought-provoking and disturbing.  However, I will say that the Daily Kos is not known for being the most "fair and balanced" of sites.  That being said, all networks have bad days.  At least Fox's apparently phony, or at least exaggerated, story wasn't a direct attempt to influence the outcome of a Presidential election, like Dan Rather's using forged documents to  "prove" GWB went AWOL from his National Guard posting.

Now, ghoul, if you read over my various posts on political topics on this forum, you will find that I have repeatedly said that neither party is right all the time.  I generally try to give credit where credit is due, when someone on either side does something good.  But I think that conservatism and liberalism are both valid and distinct philosophies, each with some good points and some bad.  But, overall, I find the conservative traditions superior.

And Flick, I know a lot of people much further right than me, and I just don't share your opinion  of their motivations.  Fundamentalist Islam is an incredibly  stifling, mind-numbing philosophy that strangles all manner of independent thought.  I can't imagine many people accustomed to the freedom we have in America wanting to adopt its views.
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3mnkids
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« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2010, 10:21:31 PM »


However, I will say that the Daily Kos is not known for being the most "fair and balanced" of sites. 

That I'll give ya.    TeddyR   
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the ghoul
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« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2010, 11:15:07 PM »


I generally try to give credit where credit is due, when someone on either side does something good.  But I think that conservatism and liberalism are both valid and distinct philosophies, each with some good points and some bad.


Yes that's what you are SUPPOSED to think, but in the big picture, the movers and shakers on both sides are going to represent the interests of corporations and lobbyists, promote job loss and economic ruin in our country while promoting slave labor in other countries all in the name of free trade and globalism.  The issues that seem like a really big deal to people right now do not amount to a hill of beans compared to what lies ahead thanks to our liberal and conservative saviors.  They are two sides of the same coin.

You can argue about things like free health care vs. paid health insurance all day long, but it isn't going to matter when we can't afford the cost of either one.

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indianasmith
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« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2010, 11:21:00 PM »

I just don't buy into that sort of conspiratorial world view.  After all, how can corporations be that evil when their chief motivation is profit?  If there are no customers left to buy their stuff, their profits disappear.  That is why, for all its flaws (and it has many), capitalism, left to itself, is ultimately self-correcting.  Many of the ills in today's world markest are due to the fact that we have adopted the "too big to fail" philosophy, which does not allow necessary corrections to take place.
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judge death
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« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2010, 11:32:15 PM »

I have a theory about the far right conservative Republicans. Not more moderate types like me who support free-market capitalism but also support personal freedoms. No, I'm talking more about the real hate-filled ones that think McCarthyism was a good thing. I work with a few of them and I honestly think that, while they talk about the Islamization of America and support the wars in the middle-east unconditionally and think that all muslims have declared jihad on the American way of life and yadda yadda yadda, my theory is that in secret they actually envy and admire that extreme muslim caricature, the way the women are practically in bondage, the way the people are kept in order through fear of religious law, how they fight not for freedom but for God. Deep down I think they envy that and secretly wish the U.S. fought wars in the name of God proudly. I also think that the really far right ones also have big problems with the establishment clause of the 1st amendment and would prefer it weren't there, whether they want to admit it or not.

Oh, and yes, I do believe Obama is an advocate of socialism. That's one thing I agree with them on. I just think they need to stop whining about it and maybe start educating people about what socialism is. Just saying "Obama is a socialist" isn't going to cut it. They're operating under an assumption that most Americans accept that socialism is not right for America. that's not true. Many don't. So saying "Obama is a socialist" isn't going to cut much mustard, guys. People also need to be educated as to WHY America is not ready for socialism and may even be a very bad idea. It works for some smaller countries, but not for us. That's my opinion, anyway.
 

Well, if Obama is a "socialist" by some people's definition then I say good because america needs a little socialism. Ever since ronny raygun smiled and blithered his way into office we've had deregulation after deregulation at the hands of the republicans, dismantling the safety mechanisms that FDR, a man reagan and most republicans aren't fit to say the name of, put in place to protect american society and working people from corporate greed, and those regulations and limitations worked pretty goof thruout the 40's the 50's, the 60's and the 70's. Sure we had bad times and downturns, but we didn;'t have full scale meltdowns and economic crises on a regular basis, and the middle class's wealth and prosperity gradually increased along with the country.

Then along came reagan (SPIT!) with his "Uh, gubmint isn't the solution, gubmint, uh, is the problem." What he elft out was "for big businesses that want to get richer than they already are and don't care what happens to the middle class in the process."

So that rotten SOB started on this big deregulation move, cutting away the safeties and limits that had been put in place during and after the great depression, and we pretty much went straight into the first deregulation crisis: The S&L bbailout. Remember that one?

We had another major crisis in the 90's due to deregulation, now, of coutrse, we're in the worse shape since the great depression thanks to bush continuing to deregulate, appointing people running the businesses government agencies were to regulate to run the agencies regulating them and so on.

 Now, trying to regulate those business and tax their profits, in addition to closing their offshore tax shelters in the caymen islands, is called "socialism".

Well, I say bring on the socialism. Regulate businesses and the financial market like they were B.R. (Before reagan). If a business is "too big to fail" then it's too big to exist. No private corporation should be allowed to be so big to can control or devastate the economy. Cut them up and shrink 'em down!

All that would be called socialism by the right, and rather than argue with them or get into an endless debate, i say "Fine, call it socialism if you want, it's what america needs, it's what people voted for in 2008 and if you don't like it, tough."
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the ghoul
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« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2010, 12:07:17 AM »

I just don't buy into that sort of conspiratorial world view.  After all, how can corporations be that evil when their chief motivation is profit?  If there are no customers left to buy their stuff, their profits disappear.  That is why, for all its flaws (and it has many), capitalism, left to itself, is ultimately self-correcting.  Many of the ills in today's world markest are due to the fact that we have adopted the "too big to fail" philosophy, which does not allow necessary corrections to take place.

Capitalism, socialism, it doesn't matter what it ends up being called.  They will put whatever spin they want on it.  As long as the people pulling the strings have all the wealth and power there is to have, the decrease in profits isn't going to matter to them.  If there is only so much wealth to go around, they will make sure it doesn't come out of their pockets.  The filthy masses will suffer that hardship.

I don't think I would call it conspiratorial.  If it were a true conspiracy, it wouldn't be happening so rampantly right in front of our eyes for all to see.  They don't need to make it a conspiracy because they've got us right where they want us.  
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 12:13:12 AM by the ghoul » Logged
indianasmith
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« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2010, 07:38:25 AM »

I don't even know where to begin.  Ronald Reagan was the greatest leader of my lifetime and I am proud to have served our country when he was commander in chief.  As for "the worst economy since the depression" - that would be one Jimmy Carter. Democrat.

This stupid Democratic Congress is addicted to one thing - spending.  They can't get enought and they can't stop,  I'll take the private sector anyday.

Judge, you are beyond liberal.
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"Carpe Ngo Diem!" - Seize the South Vietnamese Dictator!
Flick James
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« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2010, 09:26:02 AM »

And Flick, I know a lot of people much further right than me, and I just don't share your opinion  of their motivations.  Fundamentalist Islam is an incredibly  stifling, mind-numbing philosophy that strangles all manner of independent thought.  I can't imagine many people accustomed to the freedom we have in America wanting to adopt its views.

Fair enough. I was talking more about a very small minority of people I have met who have said some things that really make me think that there is a deep down little flame that actually envy's that fundamentalist mentality. It was an observation on my part based on my experience and not meant to be either authoritative or applicable to conservatives in general. I'm a college counselor and I work in a small team of mainly prior military servicemembers who work with military affiliated students, and the majority of them are very patriotic, at least in the cookie-cutter sense of "right" patriotism, and some of them say some things that really bother me. Now if I worked with a group of predominantly liberal coworkers, you'd be hearing me complain about them instead, believe me. In any case, I have one coworker in particular that I am convinced, if he had his way, would have travelled back in time and prevented the establishment clause of the 1st amendment from being written. I've also heard him make comments that suggest he wishes some of the attitudes of the fundamentalist muslims were embraced by fundamentalist Christians here, he just hasn't come out with it in those words. That's my interpretation, and it could be two years of hearing political rhetoric on nearly a daily basis talking, in fact, I'm sure that's a factor. But, just in case I wasn't clear enough in my previous post, I was talking about a very small minority of the right.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2010, 09:34:18 AM »

Quote
just don't buy into that sort of conspiratorial world view.

you kind of do though indiana in regards to muslims desire to enforce sharia on the world. and not surprisingly it feeds into your willingness to allow the state lots of power in regards to foreign policy.

similarly with judge death and his call for more socialism for me both these things are counterproductive to my really only concern which is economic competition with China. fighting wars inthe middle east and taxing corporations who will them move elsewhere is not the way to achieve that.

I'm a bottom line sort of guy and beyond all this theatraticaly we have serious competition for resources and market share with the Chinese giant.

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Flick James
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« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2010, 10:01:13 AM »

Quote
just don't buy into that sort of conspiratorial world view.

you kind of do though indiana in regards to muslims desire to enforce sharia on the world. and not surprisingly it feeds into your willingness to allow the state lots of power in regards to foreign policy.

similarly with judge death and his call for more socialism for me both these things are counterproductive to my really only concern which is economic competition with China. fighting wars inthe middle east and taxing corporations who will them move elsewhere is not the way to achieve that.

I'm a bottom line sort of guy and beyond all this theatraticaly we have serious competition for resources and market share with the Chinese giant.


I'm not endorsing anyone's part in the major part of this discussion. However, I will isolate and agree with one thing lester is saying wholeheartedly. Competing and beating China is a far greater priority for America right now.

Personally I think we need to beat them with capitalism. Real capitalism, not this mixed economy bulls**t we've been practising for decades, but real, creative, innovative, laissez-faire capitalism, the kind we haven't been close to in a very long time. It always annoys me when knee-jerk socialist advocates point the finger at capitalism as having caused so many problems, yet fail to realize that we don't practice laissez-faire capitalism, and never have. We've gotten somewhat close, but that was long before any of us were born. Government regulation, government subsidies, corporate lobbying and influence over government, these are things that are not part of real capitalism, and those are the things that are usually at the root of an economic crisis or a monopoly. Socialism advocates sometimes dredge up history to prove how bad capitalism is by pointing out the railroad industry in the 1800's as a prime example of how captalism causes coercive monopolies. In reality, it wasn't free-enterprise that caused that, it was government influence, because the government was giving huge subsidies to the railroad companies because the government was trying to spur westward expansion. What you ended up with was railroad companies with enormously coercive monopolies, and who had no incentive to produce quality, and in many cases you had stretches of railroad that were quickly thrown together and a menace to public safety. What got blamed? Evil capitalism. A convenient way to address the cause and justify even more government control to fix the problem the government made in the first place. That period marked the beginning of this country's move toward increasing governmental influence over business.

Wow, I got off on a tangent there. Lately the Off Topic board has gotten very heated. I don't think this is a bad thing, but perhaps we should be trying to strike a better balance with the fun, lighthearted stuff. Cheers
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