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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Press Releases and Film News  |  Boston = Puritanism + Socialism « previous next »
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Author Topic: Boston = Puritanism + Socialism  (Read 1803 times)
lester1/2jr
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« on: October 25, 2010, 12:16:02 PM »

Saving Lives by Taxing Alcohol


Ugh. Op Ed in yesterdays globe talking about how great the alcohol tax is. Meanwhile, there already is a tax on it!



Quote
Anyway, even if the tax does somewhat reduce alcohol sales over time, the benefits to society could be significant.


Imagine having to read stuff like this in your local papers Op ED


Quote
According to the state Department of Revenue, the tax raised $97 million in fiscal year 2010. It is projected to rise to $110 million in fiscal year 2011. Already, in the first quarter of the new fiscal 2011, the sales tax brought in $33.2 million, $4 million more than what was projected. Furthermore, already existing excise taxes on alcohol showed only a tiny drop between fiscal 2009 and fiscal 2010, from $72 million to $71 million. This suggests that sales of alcohol at liquor stores have not substantially declined.




probably because people are cutting OTHER purchases because THEY LOVE TO DRINK


Quote
Meanwhile, the sales tax on liquor has notable benefits. First, it is dedicated to state substance abuse programs


if that program is so important why not cut something else to continue paying for it? and "dedicated" sounds like a weasel word. I kind of doubt every cent of that goes to these programs.

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Thus, that case of beer helps keep school health programs afloat.


what do you hate kids, broke alkie ??


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Second, to the extent that the tax has discouraged some people from buying alcohol, the effect is likely strongest among underage drinkers. As Botticelli put it, “every analysis says that whenever you raise the price of things like tobacco or alcohol, underage kids are price-sensitive.’’




college kids party with their parents money.


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A study this month in the American Journal of Public Health found that doubling alcohol taxes results in 35 percent fewer alcohol-related deaths, 11 percent fewer traffic accidents, and other reductions in sexually transmitted diseases, violence, and crime


if we didn't have cars there'd be no car deaths either.

bottom line: This thing was put in effect to make up for budget shortfalls not all this other stuff. This guys article is all window dressing.   Hatred



 Cheers



If you want to see some REALLY p**sed off people check out th comments on the article.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 12:27:44 PM by lester1/2jr » Logged

dean
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 07:23:57 AM »


We had a pretty infamous moment a year or so ago where the government put a higher tax on alco-pops [you know, the mixed drinks of say vodka mixed with lemonade type drinks] so as to discourage kids from binge drinking as much.  They wanted it to stop teens drinking but all it did was encourage them to buy bottles of vodka and the like and mix themselves, therefore resulting in worse drinking, because at least the alcopops had a standard drink in them each, whereas it seems that kids mixed more alcohol faster.

In sum, it didn't work, and had the tax had to be taken back. Kind of reminds me of what's going on here.  Especially with kids, they will find a way to get drunk.

So the moral of the story is that people will continue to buy booze, no matter how much it is, or as you say, will probably cut other purchases for the love of the booze!
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2010, 12:20:14 PM »

tax was overturned  Cheers
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dean
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 02:45:53 AM »

 Cheers
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 09:40:09 AM »

prohibitionist LTTE in todays paper .
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 09:42:11 AM by lester1/2jr » Logged

Trevor
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2010, 09:44:48 AM »

This article reminded me of the time in South Africa where no one questioned the fact that Benson and Hedges sponsored a yearly cricket series or that Gunston cigarettes sponsored a surfing tournament. That is like a farting or coughing contest sponsored by a laxative product: you would be too scared to fart or cough.  TongueOut TeddyR
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 10:42:45 AM »

Actually, while not defending the structure of this particular tax (about which I know nothing), vice taxes make a lot of sense in theory.  Alcohol abuse creates third party costs to society, from lost productivity at work to dangerous highways to violent crime.  Yet prohibiting alcohol entirely is both unfair and counterproductive.  As a responsible drinker I don't mind helping to pay down those costs by paying a few extra dimes per bottle of beer.   Cheers
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 11:17:19 AM »

I sincerely doubt the money was being used exclusively to fund rehab programs and such or to somehow make up for costs incurred by alcohol abuse. People drink so the state figured they aren't going to stop so it's safe to tax.
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 11:27:18 AM »

I sincerely doubt the money was being used exclusively to fund rehab programs and such or to somehow make up for costs incurred by alcohol abuse. People drink so the state figured they aren't going to stop so it's safe to tax.

Doesn't matter to me.  Yeah, earmarking doesn't work. The idea is alcohol indirectly causes X dollars damage to society, ideally alcohol taxes raise exactly X dollars, then society spends the money on libraries or public schools or rehab centers or whatever it sees fit. 

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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2010, 11:45:24 AM »

They don't spend it on those things either, they spend it on massive pensions for themselves and junk no one needs. We ar talking about drinking problems but they have a spending problem, increased revenues make it worse.


Besides,  there is already an excise tax in place. I can appreciate the general sentiment of taxing us for the stuff we use sort of thing though. We pay taxes on gas to keep up the roads, that makes perfect sense.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 12:01:11 PM by lester1/2jr » Logged

dean
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2010, 02:23:46 AM »

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression I got from the original post was that they were putting another tax on alcohol, on top of the one already on it.  Double dipping if you will/raising the tax.  Might be just a general goods and services tax though [not sure how the American system works sorry].

I don't necessarily object to raising the tax except for the fact that it raises prices which annoys me, but it was proven here that it doesn't stop people drinking so it's essentially a grab for more money, especially if, again, there was already a tax on it to begin with.

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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2010, 12:56:29 PM »

To be fair, Alcoholism is much more rampant than any other addiction in the U.S.
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2010, 10:55:45 AM »

To be fair, Alcoholism is much more rampant than any other addiction in the U.S.

Werd...it did a number on my family as I have the disease on both sides of my family. 

I seem to to be the only one who really broke the chain and didn't succumb to it. I asked myself if I wanted to wind up like my parents and\or some of my relatives, and the answer was a resounding no. 

I get a lot of flack from these "don't judge it if you never tried it" types, but seeing what it did to my family (and how Hollywood stars drop like flies from their own addictions) I feel I have more that a right to an opinion.

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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2010, 04:33:12 PM »

old article on tax


if you read this article from february you see no mention of rehab programs.  


Quote
Officials have estimated that taxing liquor will raise nearly $80 million for the cash-strapped state.


does anyone think they are going to spend 80 million dollars on rehab programs????

Quote
Bob Bliss, a spokesman for the Massachusetts Department of Revenue, said sales tax collected on alcoholic beverages from August through December “exceeded expectations by about $10 million.’’



bob bliss ladies and gentlemen
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 05:00:14 PM by lester1/2jr » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2010, 10:18:58 PM »

old article on tax


if you read this article from february you see no mention of rehab programs.  


Quote
Officials have estimated that taxing liquor will raise nearly $80 million for the cash-strapped state.


does anyone think they are going to spend 80 million dollars on rehab programs????




I don't think you should be so hung up on the money going directly to rehab programs.  I'm not sure rehab is a very effective way to deal with the effects of alcohol abuse anyway. 

Are you upset because someone somewhere once claimed the money would be going exclusively to alcohol rehab programs, or because you think that's the only possible justification for an increase in alcohol taxes? 
 
Yeah, it sucked when the price of cigarettes went up here recently and I understand that some of the revenue will be wasted.  But I also understand smokers and drinkers indirectly cost society money and I feel we're fair game.  It's better than a hike in the general sales tax, for sure.

It's just not something I can identify with getting outraged about.

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I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer..."
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