Star Wars Question

[Flick James]

I'm a Star Wars fan, but not overly so, and I'm sure the fanatics will be able to help me out.

Correct me if my recollection is wrong, as I tend to remember A New Hope from the perspective of my 10-year-old mind when it came out and I saw it before it was altered.

In the original Star Wars film, A New Hope, I don't remember The Emperor ever coming up in dialogue. I could be wrong though.

But that's not the main thing I'm asking. It almost seemed to me like Darth Vader was subservient to Grand Moff Tarkin, almost as if Vader was a dark and powerful watchdog on a leash. That was always the vibe I got from the original film. Then, as the franchise developed, Vader was more of the top dog, with the exception of The Emperor. The Vader of The Empire Strikes Back and forward would never have taken orders from Tarkin.

It's things like this that lead me to doubt the notion I've heard many times that George Lucas had a grand developed storyline all the way back when he was making Star Wars. I have no problem believing that he had some basic premises established, but I get a little annoyed when I hear people rave about what a genius George Lucas was in that he had this whole thing planned out from the beginning. My recollection of the original version of the film does not bear that notion out. Don't get me wrong, I grew up with Star Wars and it will always hold a special place in my heart, but I just don't buy into the whole "Lucas is God" mindset.

[venomx]

George Lucas is smart... but not a genius I agree. Did you know he's still adding to Return of the Jedi?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oe0hBAiqdQ&feature=related
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I'm a big StarWars fan... but not a nerd like the ones you hear in that clip lol.

[Skull]

I actually believe there was reference of an emperor but I'm not sure where, although Darth Vader in Star Wars (1977) was consider a sorcerer. 

I do think George Lucas was a genius... although he has gotten very lazy after Empire Strikes Back. This is why I'm upset with the prequels... I know he could do better then that.

[Dr. Frank N. Furter]

I think that tarkin was in charge of the deathstar project, which palpatine had a thing for but vader was lukewarm to. Palpatine gave the construction and operation of the deathstar to tarkin, vader was assigned to protect the deathstar by finding the stolen data. As such in matters of the deathstar vader was under tarkin even though vader was normally the emperor's right had man.

The emperor was mentioned in star wars as having just dissolved the senate. Maybe he was running things behind the scenes with the senate as a puppet, until the DS was ready and he was ready to openly come out and take power as a dictator, with fear of the deathstar to keep the local systems in line.

Remember the bit about the emperor has dissolved the senate, and how will we keep order without the bureaucracy, and that governors now had direct control (Under palpatine, of course) and that fear of the deathstar would keep the local systems in line.

That seems to make some sense to me.

[akiratubo]

The Emperor gets one mention.

[Mr. DS]

Welcome to the "revisionist history" (as I heard one podcast call it) of George Lucas.  As Akira mentioned I think he does get one mention in the meeting where Vader chokes one of the officers.

I have so much trouble with plot points in the whole SW world.   I really think its Lucas saying in his mind "meh, people will buy it" or simply forgetting where the frig he was going at times plot wise.  A big one that bugs me is the whole dialog between Obi Wan and Luke.  At one point, I believe it was ROTJ Obi Wan makes mention of how he thought he could train Anakin better than Yoda.  It kind of made me think Obi Wan trained him in secret against Yoda's wishes.  Then we get Anakin training in the prequels with Obi Wan approved by Yoda and the council.  

Lucas is an idea man but has no absolutely no business executing his ideas.  He lacks the finess to pull anything off and the only time his material shines is when he is only slapping his name on it.  

George Lucas is smart... but not a genius I agree. Did you know he's still adding to Return of the Jedi?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oe0hBAiqdQ&feature=related

I'm a big StarWars fan... but not a nerd like the ones you hear in that clip lol.

Get that man the frig away from finished material!!!!  

[Mr. DS]

Oh and don't even get me started on the Han/Greedo thing of shooting first.  Han Solo was a scumbag went we first meet him in ANH, he shot first. 

[Flick James]

Oh, I agree. Han was definately a scumbag, although scoundrel is the preferred term in SW. I see Han as someone who was not an evil guy, he just existed on his wits and short term gain. He's basically a pragmatic gunslinger who didn't know he had a soul until the right situation came along.

I appreciate the input. Like I said, I do love SW, but I've just never bought that Lucas had as much thought out from the beginning as some seem to give him credit for.

And the whole Grand Moff Tarkin being over Vader was more of a feel thing I got from the first film. To me, it seemed like Lucas rethought a few things once the success of ANH made him able to keep the storyline going.

[ulthar]

I've long been in the camp that STAR WARS was made as a stand alone film.  The characters may have had some back story to flesh them out for the actors and such, but no way do I buy that Lucas had this whole mess planned out before he started.

I personally think that when SW was made, there was no thought even to a sequel...much less two and then (years later) three prequels.

[Derf]

I've long been in the camp that STAR WARS was made as a stand alone film.  The characters may have had some back story to flesh them out for the actors and such, but no way do I buy that Lucas had this whole mess planned out before he started.

I personally think that when SW was made, there was no thought even to a sequel...much less two and then (years later) three prequels.

I would agree with this for the most part. Star Wars was made with a fairly small budget and a lot of innovative ideas for effects. Lucas likely had some of the sequel material in his head, though I doubt much of it was written in any publishable form. By the time Empire Strikes Back was in serious development, he had started to plan out the nine-movie series (that thankfully now will never happen). I was a major SW nerd back in those days of the original trilogy. I lost interest when the "extended universe" stories started coming out, and the prequels killed most of my love for the franchise. The original SW movie is the only one that is still watchable in my opinion. Whoever directed ESB didn't know how to direct actors (that movie shows Harrison Ford at his worst, acting-wise). RotJ improved the acting, but the Ewoks just don't work for me. I like the idea of primitives beating the Empire, but Ewoks? Really?

Thus endeth my Star Wars rant of the day.

[Trevor]

I remember seeing Star Wars as a ten year old and asking my Dad afterwards "Why did it say Part 4 at the start?" 

[Hammock Rider]

  I was a kid when Star Wars first came out and back then, before all this midichlorian business, I was under the impression that The Force was influenced by the user's will, kind of like Green Lantern's ring. I thought this because while entering Mos Eisley Obi-Wan tells Luke that the Force can contol the weak minded, or something to that effect(These are not the droids you're lokoking for). Tarkin seems pretty tough minded and I just thought that he was strong willed enough to resist any of Vader's Force based shenanigans. Plus anyone who rises to Imperial Governor is probably no slouch in the Evil or Ego department. 

[ulthar]

Tarkin seems pretty tough minded and I just thought that he was strong willed enough to resist any of Vader's Force based shenanigans. Plus anyone who rises to Imperial Governor is probably no slouch in the Evil or Ego department. 

And, because he's, you know...PETER CUSHING.  He takes crap from no one.   

[BoyScoutKevin]

Tarkin seems pretty tough minded and I just thought that he was strong willed enough to resist any of Vader's Force based shenanigans. Plus anyone who rises to Imperial Governor is probably no slouch in the Evil or Ego department. 

And, because he's, you know...PETER CUSHING.  He takes crap from no one.   

Including Christopher Lee.

[Allhallowsday]

I've long been in the camp that STAR WARS was made as a stand alone film.  The characters may have had some back story to flesh them out for the actors and such, but no way do I buy that Lucas had this whole mess planned out before he started.

I personally think that when SW was made, there was no thought even to a sequel...much less two and then (years later) three prequels.

I don't disagree with you regarding your suggestion that who'd have thought there'd be a sequel...??  Let alone a franchise.  But, I will note that there is a TIME magazine story (probably in the wake of the second film) from that era describing the later films that weren't produced for a long long time.