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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Press Releases and Film News  |  Egypt is falling « previous next »
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Author Topic: Egypt is falling  (Read 6782 times)
dean
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« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2011, 09:45:59 AM »


Well, far as I can see, I have little or no hope for a human rights group to step in because of the one-sidedness of this thing in the past, and by that I mean this:

All we heard about from guys like Bono and the ACLU and Jesse "the fake Navy SEAL" Ventura, were abuot the stuff WE do to THEM.  Gitmo, water boards, torture, etc.

But yet, we never hear any mention of the Taliban slitting Daniel Pearl's throat,  the Pakistani-based acid attacks against women (and the burning of womens' schools) or the little Iraqi boy Yousef, whose face was disfigured by Iraqi Al-Qaeda about 5 years back, after they poured gasoline on him.  

Or if they did say anything, I haven't heard. But it always seems that noone addresses the atrocities on the other side of the aisle.

Well, I suppose we pay more attention to those actions because we expect better of those who claim to be the 'good guys'. I don't need a newspaper article to tell me that terrorists are a-holes, but you better believe that I'd want someone held accountable for when 'our side' does the wrong thing.  I don't care if 'its part of war' or whatever, you want to win the battle that way, fine, I want to win the war, and you win that by being the better person who is still humane to their enemy.  You can't be morally superior when you have soldiers acting like that. 

But that is all way off topic...

ANYWAYS, so far the only people I've seen who seem sceptical/all end of the worldy about all this in Egypt is CNN and Fox News.  Everyone else I talk to seem to think that its a step in a positive direction, despite the turmoil.  Essentially attempting to break away from the police-state it has been for the last 30 years?  Can't blame them for snapping really. 

I particularly liked one article I read about the army and protestors sitting side-by-side peacefully on tanks when the army could easily have been shooting everyone.  Kind of gives you hope that things aren't completely horrible.

Time will tell how Egypt will adapt and who takes over, for now though, I hope that cooler heads will prevail.

I also hope, Indy, that your friend is safe and is able to either be in a safe place to hole up till this blows over, or is able to get out of the country quick smart.
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Newt
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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2011, 10:12:59 AM »

ANYWAYS, so far the only people I've seen who seem sceptical/all end of the worldy about all this in Egypt is CNN and Fox News.  Everyone else I talk to seem to think that its a step in a positive direction, despite the turmoil.  Essentially attempting to break away from the police-state it has been for the last 30 years?  Can't blame them for snapping really.

 Thumbup 

Quote from: dean
I particularly liked one article I read about the army and protestors sitting side-by-side peacefully on tanks when the army could easily have been shooting everyone.  Kind of gives you hope that things aren't completely horrible.

The commentators on our news reports have said that the army is loved by the Egyptian people.  The news coverage we are getting has shown protestors embracing individual armed soldiers - who receive the embraces perhaps sheepishly but without protest - saying, "The army is on our side!" 
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2011, 10:26:48 AM »

Well, the persecution of religous minorities flares up for various reasons. For example, the christians in Iraq were doing fine under Saddam, now they have been driven out and killed almost totally. Is that because of islam? or because of the US invasion? probaly some combination therof and the general momentum of upheavel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/world/middleeast/20christian.html?src=twrhp

"Last Christians Ponder Leaving a Hometown in Iraq"

Quote
His wife wants to leave town or leave the country, joining what is becoming an exodus of Christians from Iraq and throughout the Middle East.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 10:29:01 AM by lester1/2jr » Logged

Jim H
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2011, 10:33:08 AM »

I must admit I find it baffling and depressing that Islamic nations treated Christians minorities much better back when they were conquering everything than they do now. 
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Umaril The Unfeathered
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2011, 10:35:41 AM »



Well, far as I can see, I have little or no hope for a human rights group to step in because of the one-sidedness of this thing in the past, and by that I mean this:

All we heard about from guys like Bono and the ACLU and Jesse "the fake Navy SEAL" Ventura, were abuot the stuff WE do to THEM.  Gitmo, water boards, torture, etc.

But yet, we never hear any mention of the Taliban slitting Daniel Pearl's throat,  the Pakistani-based acid attacks against women (and the burning of womens' schools) or the little Iraqi boy Yousef, whose face was disfigured by Iraqi Al-Qaeda about 5 years back, after they poured gasoline on him.  

Or if they did say anything, I haven't heard. But it always seems that noone addresses the atrocities on the other side of the aisle.

Well, I suppose we pay more attention to those actions because we expect better of those who claim to be the 'good guys'. I don't need a newspaper article to tell me that terrorists are a-holes, but you better believe that I'd want someone held accountable for when 'our side' does the wrong thing.  I don't care if 'its part of war' or whatever, you want to win the battle that way, fine, I want to win the war, and you win that by being the better person who is still humane to their enemy.  You can't be morally superior when you have soldiers acting like that.

That could be, but it just makes me wonder how many people in America and the world laugh their asses off when soldiers get killed. Y'know that "ha ha, you asked for it" factor because they see the enemy of their enemy as the friend.

I say this, because I've been to other websites where people have openly laughed at and made horrible posts about American and Allied soldiers getting killed, and it just makes your blood boil. Then we found out he was from Berkeley, and we suddenly understood his lack of intelligence, and his lack of respect, lol


ANYWAYS, so far the only people I've seen who seem sceptical/all end of the worldy about all this in Egypt is CNN and Fox News.  Everyone else I talk to seem to think that its a step in a positive direction, despite the turmoil.  Essentially attempting to break away from the police-state it has been for the last 30 years?  Can't blame them for snapping really.

Well, CNN and FOX need each other-one side to promote the event as "good for the world" and one to see it as doom incarnate. Good station, bad station. It's the old battle for hearts and minds among the two biggest media giants. Or so it would seem, anyway.

I particularly liked one article I read about the army and protestors sitting side-by-side peacefully on tanks when the army could easily have been shooting everyone.  Kind of gives you hope that things aren't completely horrible.

Yeah at least that was good.  It could have always been another Tianenmen Square where the tanks rolled over the students as they slept. There too, we still don't know what will happen. Noone's out of the woods by a long shot on this one...
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Tam-Riel na nou Sancremath.
Dawn's Beauty is our shining home.

An varlais, nou bala, an kynd, nou latta.
The stars are our power, the sky is our light.

Malatu na nou karan.
Truth is our armor.

Malatu na bala
Truth is power.

Heca, Pellani! Agabaiyane Ehlnadaya!
Be gone, outsiders! I do not fear your mortal gods!

Auri-El na nou ata, ye A, Umaril, an Aran!
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Umaril The Unfeathered
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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2011, 10:49:56 AM »

Well, the persecution of religous minorities flares up for various reasons. For example, the christians in Iraq were doing fine under Saddam, now they have been driven out and killed almost totally. Is that because of islam? or because of the US invasion? probaly some combination therof and the general momentum of upheavel.

That's a fair bet. It's long been speculated that under Saddam, everyone enjoyed a level playing field despite the less-than humanitarian regime everyone came to know. Everyone knew their place.

Saddam's ousting left a power vacuum, and when there is no centralized government, there are no laws, and people wind up making their own as the pen is opened and the flocks run loose. When there's no flag flying, people make their own.

The killing of Christians is perhaps, as you say, because of Islam, as well as the U.S. Invasion and it's possible likeness to another Crusade as present day events are most likely tied to historical events to suit the anger that prevails. Or it could be that that's just how they did business all along.  A lot to think about, in any case.
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Tam-Riel na nou Sancremath.
Dawn's Beauty is our shining home.

An varlais, nou bala, an kynd, nou latta.
The stars are our power, the sky is our light.

Malatu na nou karan.
Truth is our armor.

Malatu na bala
Truth is power.

Heca, Pellani! Agabaiyane Ehlnadaya!
Be gone, outsiders! I do not fear your mortal gods!

Auri-El na nou ata, ye A, Umaril, an Aran!
Aure-El is our father, and I, Umaril, the king!
Umaril The Unfeathered
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2011, 11:03:30 AM »

I must admit I find it baffling and depressing that Islamic nations treated Christians minorities much better back when they were conquering everything than they do now. 

Indeed. I think that part of the modern day hatred is because Muslims have had almost 1,000 years of the post-Crusades world to villify Christianity as per the bloody history of the time. 

But to address your question:

Part of the reason Christians were treated better back then is because most likely, back then, there were Christians who avoided support for the Crusades, wishing only to live in peace with their Muslim\Jewish neighbors, living out the true edict of good will towards all men as they avoided the war around them.

Then, as atrocities became more known, Muslims and Christians began to hate and distrust each other to the point where summary judgement was the order of the day as one-upmanship reared it's head.

That said, there have been untold generations of Islamic hatemongers willing and able to carry the fight into the modern day, regardless of two wrongs not making a right, because noone ever told them that 2 wrongs don't make a right.

At this point though, it seems noone cares to stop and see anymore.
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Tam-Riel na nou Sancremath.
Dawn's Beauty is our shining home.

An varlais, nou bala, an kynd, nou latta.
The stars are our power, the sky is our light.

Malatu na nou karan.
Truth is our armor.

Malatu na bala
Truth is power.

Heca, Pellani! Agabaiyane Ehlnadaya!
Be gone, outsiders! I do not fear your mortal gods!

Auri-El na nou ata, ye A, Umaril, an Aran!
Aure-El is our father, and I, Umaril, the king!
indianasmith
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« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2011, 01:50:33 PM »

Couple of quick notes on this topic:

First of all, the "tolerance" of Medieval Islam for Jews and Christians has been exaggerated greatly by Muslim apologists in the West in recent years.  Some Sultans were tolerant, especially of the Jews, who never sought to proselytize.  But both Jews and Christians were allowed to live as "dhimma" - a permanent underclass who had to pay an annual fee to practice their faith, who could not testify against a Muslim in a court of law, and who were subject to physical abuse with little hope of redress.  Google "dhimmitude", or try reading "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades," for original source quotes from Islamic legal authorities on the subject.

Secondly, the Islamic world had pretty much forgotten about the Crusades for hundreds of years until well-meaning Europeans, many of them Marxists, tried to re-invent the Crusades as an example of "European Imperialism" in the East.  Late nineteenth century writers excoriated the Crusaders as early-day robber barons, and gave the creators of the modern jihadist movement a wonderful propaganda tool.  Muslims today are more angry about the Crusades than Muslims were for centuries immediately after the Crusades ended.  For earlier Muslims, the Crusades were just another campaign in a religious history that was essentially one of conquest and defeat for centuries.  My student that is in Cairo  gave me several of her books on the Crusades after she finished her class on the subject, and the author of the basic text - I think it's just called "A Short History of the Crusades" - made a comment at the end about attempts to link the Crusades to the events of 9/11.  His comment was that Western secularists and Islamic Jihadists have both distorted the actual meaning and motivation of the Crusades into something that none of the actual participants would even understand.

At any rate, contrary to what some may have construed from my comments, my hope is for peace, understanding, and prosperity for the people of Egypt.  If democracy can take root there and produce those things, that would be great.  But if democracy in Egypt means further xenophobia, religious murders,  and Sharia law, then let another dictator step in if that is what it takes to prevent those things.  Peace and stability are better for Egypt and the world than mob rule.

  I HOPE the people of Egypt will prove capable of enlightened self-government.  But we will see.  There can be no self-government without self discipline, something much of the Middle East seems to be sorely lacking.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2011, 03:08:34 PM »

Small | Large


edit: I think she is tunisian actually

this girl is hilarious and awesome

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Raffine
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« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2011, 07:28:56 PM »

The looters decapitated two mummies at the Cairo Museum and ran off with the heads...
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indianasmith
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« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2011, 07:38:11 PM »

From what I read, the mutilated mummies were those of Thuya and Yuya, the grandparents of King Tut.  Their mummies were incredibly well-preserved, and their tomb was the most intact ever found at the time (1890's, I think) that it was excavated.  I just have to wonder what the idiots were thinking?

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Raffine
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« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2011, 07:48:14 PM »

From what I read, the mutilated mummies were those of Thuya and Yuya, the grandparents of King Tut.  Their mummies were incredibly well-preserved, and their tomb was the most intact ever found at the time (1890's, I think) that it was excavated.  I just have to wonder what the idiots were thinking?



Yes, in addition to the human suffering these events always seem to inevitably lead to the destruction and/or looting of irreplaceable historical artifacts and monuments.
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Umaril The Unfeathered
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« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2011, 09:32:15 PM »

Couple of quick notes on this topic:

First of all, the "tolerance" of Medieval Islam for Jews and Christians has been exaggerated greatly by Muslim apologists in the West in recent years.  Some Sultans were tolerant, especially of the Jews, who never sought to proselytize.  But both Jews and Christians were allowed to live as "dhimma" - a permanent underclass who had to pay an annual fee to practice their faith, who could not testify against a Muslim in a court of law, and who were subject to physical abuse with little hope of redress.  Google "dhimmitude", or try reading "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades," for original source quotes from Islamic legal authorities on the subject.

Sounds as if he Jews and Christians were the real victims here.

Secondly, the Islamic world had pretty much forgotten about the Crusades for hundreds of years until well-meaning Europeans, many of them Marxists, tried to re-invent the Crusades as an example of "European Imperialism" in the East.  Late nineteenth century writers excoriated the Crusaders as early-day robber barons, and gave the creators of the modern jihadist movement a wonderful propaganda tool.

A propaganda tool and a tool to promote exaggerated victimization. Ain't THAT the truth....

However, even though there's absolutely no doubt as to what you said above, I think it only natural that modern day Jihadists would have eventualy found their anger anyway, thru centuries of one-sided storytelling and exaggerated victimization as the Crusades moved away from what it really was, to what it's become. 

Centuries have existed to mold and shape the events and for the story to gather moss as it rolled downhill, and man has it ever gone downhill. Who'd have ever thought things would get to this point?
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Tam-Riel na nou Sancremath.
Dawn's Beauty is our shining home.

An varlais, nou bala, an kynd, nou latta.
The stars are our power, the sky is our light.

Malatu na nou karan.
Truth is our armor.

Malatu na bala
Truth is power.

Heca, Pellani! Agabaiyane Ehlnadaya!
Be gone, outsiders! I do not fear your mortal gods!

Auri-El na nou ata, ye A, Umaril, an Aran!
Aure-El is our father, and I, Umaril, the king!
Trevor
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« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2011, 12:54:03 AM »

The looters decapitated two mummies at the Cairo Museum and ran off with the heads...

 Buggedout Buggedout Buggedout
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2011, 11:20:40 AM »

If there really is mummy's curse those guys are TOAST.
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