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Author Topic: Attitudes about Drinking  (Read 4064 times)
Flick James
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2011, 04:21:52 PM »

I drink quite alot too. I can go through phases where I'll drink every day, morning and night for about a month. Then, I'll just say "hell, I'm quitting damn it!" and stop for anything upto three months. I don't touch spirits so much anymore and it is absolutely suicide for me if I mix my drinks (I go into pyscho mode), so I tend to drink a ton of lager. The main problem I have is that I don't have any friends or family where I live and I only know ppl through work, so when I go out with them - I drink. I drink because I get bored and because I fall into that vicious (and stupid) trap of trying to "numb" my pain and memories. But, I drink alone, at home so that I don't embarress myself or hurt anyone.

I don't judge anyone who drinks more heavily than me and I don't judge people who don't drink. I commend them.

That's interesting. You're in the UK, right Circus? I was commenting in my original post how, in my experience visiting Northern Ireland, it seems fairly commonplace for people to drink off and on, that is, drink for a while, perhaps even heavily, then go through periods of not drinking. I would talk to quite a few people who would talk about that, referring to those periods of drinking as "on the drink." Like "John So-and-so is on the drink lately," as if the switch was going to turn off at some point and they would be "off the drink." Just an observation. Does that ring a bell at all in your neck of the UK?
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Flick James
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2011, 04:24:17 PM »

Quote
I don't judge anyone who drinks more heavily than me and I don't judge people who don't drink. I commend them.

Oh, and this statement also very much mirrors what I was talking about in my original post regarding the differences in attitudes.
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Flick James
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 04:27:24 PM »

What statistics say that one third of traffic fatalities involve drunk driving?

The statistics say 32% of all traffic deaths involve an intoxicated driver. That said, even the experts agree that a significant percentage of those deaths would not have been prevented had the drunken drivers been sober. 'involved' does not equal 'caused'.

Also "Fetal Alcohol Syndrome - the leading known cause of intellectual disability in the Western world", that's a manipulative way of presenting the info, since the vast majority of those disabilities are caused by things unknown. 1 in every 160 children born in the developed world suffer from some form of autism spectrum, and there is little known of a cause. The key is leading KNOWN cause. . .

Also, it is unfortunate that when drinking is discussed, the discussion automatically takes the turn that seems to equate all drinking to the worst incidence. Yes, drunk driving is an enormous problem, but if you consider how little it actually happens compared to the number of people that are drinking, it's hard to lump the whole drinking population together. An even greater factor in highway deaths is excessive speed, but we don't cast blame on those that drive a couple MPH over the limit the same as we do people that drink.



Yes, I looked up the U.S. census Statistical Abstract and found that same number for the year 2008, and another that put the number at about 21% for the same year, both coming from the same source. My point? You can't count on statistics.
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2011, 04:27:39 PM »

I drink quite alot too. I can go through phases where I'll drink every day, morning and night for about a month. Then, I'll just say "hell, I'm quitting damn it!" and stop for anything upto three months. I don't touch spirits so much anymore and it is absolutely suicide for me if I mix my drinks (I go into psycho mode), so I tend to drink a ton of lager. The main problem I have is that I don't have any friends or family where I live and I only know ppl through work, so when I go out with them - I drink. I drink because I get bored and because I fall into that vicious (and stupid) trap of trying to "numb" my pain and memories. But, I drink alone, at home so that I don't embarrass myself or hurt anyone.

I don't judge anyone who drinks more heavily than me and I don't judge people who don't drink. I commend them.

That's interesting. You're in the UK, right Circus? I was commenting in my original post how, in my experience visiting Northern Ireland, it seems fairly commonplace for people to drink off and on, that is, drink for a while, perhaps even heavily, then go through periods of not drinking. I would talk to quite a few people who would talk about that, referring to those periods of drinking as "on the drink." Like "John So-and-so is on the drink lately," as if the switch was going to turn off at some point and they would be "off the drink." Just an observation. Does that ring a bell at all in your neck of the UK?

Well, I'm trying not to stereotype here, but the Irish tend to be big drinkers although they seem to handle it extremely well. Here in England, there's a big binge drinking culture - I'd say for 18-35 years olds mostly at the weekends because I think we had new licencing laws that meant certain establishments could stay open practically 24/7. That was supposed cut down the level of drinking apparently, yet nothing has changed. To be fair, there's not much for younger people to do, especially in small towns so they tend to hang around in groups and get smashed. Add to that, the fact that the larger retail stores stock a stack of discount booze on a monthly basis and you end up with a lot of suffering livers.
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2011, 04:35:54 PM »

 I drink alone. I dont like to drink around people. That says someting...I drink alot-but I dont drink in public.  Not sure what it says...cuz I aint shy. Id f**k in public. But I dont like to see people watch me tip a bottle. I can be drunk...but I hid the actual act of drinking. Weird. Any Freuds here?  Question
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Flick James
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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2011, 04:36:18 PM »

I drink quite alot too. I can go through phases where I'll drink every day, morning and night for about a month. Then, I'll just say "hell, I'm quitting damn it!" and stop for anything upto three months. I don't touch spirits so much anymore and it is absolutely suicide for me if I mix my drinks (I go into psycho mode), so I tend to drink a ton of lager. The main problem I have is that I don't have any friends or family where I live and I only know ppl through work, so when I go out with them - I drink. I drink because I get bored and because I fall into that vicious (and stupid) trap of trying to "numb" my pain and memories. But, I drink alone, at home so that I don't embarrass myself or hurt anyone.

I don't judge anyone who drinks more heavily than me and I don't judge people who don't drink. I commend them.

That's interesting. You're in the UK, right Circus? I was commenting in my original post how, in my experience visiting Northern Ireland, it seems fairly commonplace for people to drink off and on, that is, drink for a while, perhaps even heavily, then go through periods of not drinking. I would talk to quite a few people who would talk about that, referring to those periods of drinking as "on the drink." Like "John So-and-so is on the drink lately," as if the switch was going to turn off at some point and they would be "off the drink." Just an observation. Does that ring a bell at all in your neck of the UK?

Well, I'm trying not to stereotype here, but the Irish tend to be big drinkers although they seem to handle it extremely well. Here in England, there's a big binge drinking culture - I'd say for 18-35 years olds mostly at the weekends because I think we had new licencing laws that meant certain establishments could stay open practically 24/7. That was supposed cut down the level of drinking apparently, yet nothing has changed. To be fair, there's not much for younger people to do, especially in small towns so they tend to hang around in groups and get smashed. Add to that, the fact that the larger retail stores stock a stack of discount booze on a monthly basis and you end up with a lot of suffering livers.

Well, my wife is from Belfast, as are her parents. She drinks and handles it quite well. Her father is a regular drinker but tends not to get smashed. Her mother barely touches the stuff. I say "whatever" to the stereotypes. I just figured there may be a similar phenomenon around your part. I just thought it was interesting and a little bit amusing that there was a term for it, "on the drink," that they used for this seemingly common practice there of drinking off again/on again, so when you posted that it rang the bell, so to speak.
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2011, 04:52:51 PM »

I did say "drinking habitually and to excess".  I do not see how that translates into being in favour of prohibition?

Interesting that your argument seems to imply that what is legal is rightThe two are not equivalent.  "Legal" does not = "ethical" The argument that something is legal and therefore totally acceptable always smacks of sociopathology to me: that the person citing the legality of an issue as its final defence does not possess a sense of  right and wrong. There is far more to "right" and "wrong" than what is strictly laid out in law.  No offence, but I have found going on about your "right" to do this and that to be a very "American" thing: Canadians tend to be more concerned about what is "right" and "fair".  Perhaps that explains our differing perspectives.

As for emotional reaction: watch it.  Lookingup  You may be veering into a sexist interpretation there!  (Would you really have suggested that so readily had I not been female?) For the record: I do not have any personal experiences connected to drunk driving nor to FAS.  My Dad was a small town family doctor.  Perhaps a bit of his profound frustration on the issue influenced my attitude.  Sure, it makes me angry because it is so easily preventable.  And any argument that appears to be in favour of irresponsible actions is bound to make me angry.

So what would YOU do about FAS?  Charge the woman with child abuse once the baby is born and the irreparable damage already done?  Again: the cause is excessive - and irresponsible - drinking.  Since legally the fetus is not a person, that makes it totally OK?  If making such drinking socially unacceptable reduces the risk to children then I am all for it. 

Drinking problems cause and are in and of themselves a burden on society.  As a member of that society I have a responsibility - and a right - to advocate reduction of that burden - by means of education, prevention and promotion of personal responsibility.  In my country, I am paying for the extra medical care and various social programs that excessive drinking makes necessary.  I am supposed to just suck it up and pay my taxes without a word because it is somebody's  "right" to drink irresponsibly?

The way this discussion began made it look quite clearly polarized: either it was to be "no holds barred" drinking or prohibiton.  One extreme or the other.  Where is the place for moderation and responsibility?  THAT is what I would argue for.  I am not against alcohol consumption. I am against alcohol abuse.
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Flick James
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« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2011, 05:40:43 PM »

Hmmm. Okay.

Quote
Interesting that your argument seems to imply that what is legal is right.  The two are not equivalent.  "Legal" does not = "ethical" The argument that something is legal and therefore totally acceptable always smacks of sociopathology to me: that the person citing the legality of an issue as its final defence does not possess a sense of  right and wrong. There is far more to "right" and "wrong" than what is strictly laid out in law.  No offence, but I have found going on about your "right" to do this and that to be a very "American" thing: Canadians tend to be more concerned about what is "right" and "fair".  Perhaps that explains our differing perspectives.

At no point did I imply that what is legal is what is right. I beg to differ. My point was that this is extremely hazy area for the law to handle in an objective way. It's impossible. My real im;lication was that the only way to effectively handle the two items you have brought up was prohibition. I think that's a valid point.

Quote
As for emotional reaction: watch it.    You may be veering into a sexist interpretation there!  (Would you really have suggested that so readily had I not been female?) For the record: I do not have any personal experiences connected to drunk driving nor to FAS.  My Dad was a small town family doctor.  Perhaps a bit of his profound frustration on the issue influenced my attitude.  Sure, it makes me angry because it is so easily preventable.  And any argument that appears to be in favour of irresponsible actions is bound to make me angry.

Actually, I would ask you to watch it. I made no sexist remarks, nor did I make ANY implication that I was basing this on you being a woman. Feel free to point out through quotation where I did.  And yes, I absolutely WOULD sugges the same thing were you not female. I turned right around and said I have emotional hot button issues as well, did I not? So, please, don't pin sexism on me as I am far from a sexist. That's a red herring if I ever saw one.


Quote
So what would YOU do about FAS?  Charge the woman with child abuse once the baby is born and the irreparable damage already done?  Again: the cause is excessive - and irresponsible - drinking.  Since legally the fetus is not a person, that makes it totally OK?  If making such drinking socially unacceptable reduces the risk to children then I am all for it.

At what point did I say that this was okay? I clarified clearly that, humanely, it is certainly not. Again, my point was that the law cannot practically address these issues. The law never will. I don't have a solution for FAS, any more than I have a solution to any number of other birth defects that can be influenced by the actions taken by the pregnant mother. What would YOU do about FAS? I don't recall that either of us proposed a solution. Well, I did actually, prohibition, but I don't agree with it, so I'm not offering it as something I would do.

Quote
Drinking problems cause and are in and of themselves a burden on society.  As a member of that society I have a responsibility - and a right - to advocate reduction of that burden - by means of education, prevention and promotion of personal responsibility.  In my country, I am paying for the extra medical care and various social programs that excessive drinking makes necessary.  I am supposed to just suck it up and pay my taxes without a word because it is somebody's  "right" to drink irresponsibly?

Is it right for taxpayers to pay for the mistakes of the individual? Certainly not. What's more, I'm not advocating that they do. This is one of the reasons why I don't agree with socialized medicine, it gives the government, and the taxpayers, the license to dictate individual behavior. And why not? If I were paying for the cancer treatment of smokers I would be upset too. So, no, I don't think it's right that you should suck it up and pay for it. And please, burden to society? Lot's of things are a burden to society, like obesity, a common problem in the U.S. But I can't very well stop people from overeating, can I? And if I do, I'm an insensitive a***ole for pointing out that they're fat. There's no way to win. Now, education, prevention, and promotion of personal responsibility? You've got something there. However, that costs money too.

My whole point from the beginning has been moderation and responsbility, Newt. That, and I was genuinely interested in differing attitudes. I don't see that things have gotten polarized.

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« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2011, 05:45:43 PM »

I drank HEAPS when I was in my 20s.  It was part of the social thing my friends and I did.  Pubs and bars were places to get smashed, have fun, dance, and pick up hot guys - you know, the stuff you do when you're young and bullet proof.  When I fell pregnant at 25, I was so morning sick all the time, I couldn't choke down a piece of toast, let alone a beer.  So I stopped and I never missed it.  After that, I just never really picked it up again.

As an adult I've been roaringly drunk on occasion and massively enjoyed myself each time.  But it takes so long to get over the hangover that mostly I just don't bother.  It's expensive, makes my skin break out, makes me fat and now that I'm not going to bars picking up random men, it just doesn't occur to me to drink every day.  But I am quite susceptible to peer pressure so if I do go out with friends, I'll have a couple of drinks but not enough to make me smashed and hungover.

I grew up with a family of alcoholics surrounding me so I've seen the damage alcohol can do.  But not being an addictive personality, drinking to excess doesn't hold any appeal.  I don't have any opinion about teetotallers or those who drink to excess.  For me, it's a live and let live kind of attitude.  But if you drive drunk and kill someone you should bloody well go to jail with all of the other killers because you chose to break the law and you should be punished.
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« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2011, 05:52:27 PM »

Quote
I don't have any opinion about teetotallers or those who drink to excess.  For me, it's a live and let live kind of attitude.  But if you drive drunk and kill someone you should bloody well go to jail with all of the other killers because you chose to break the law and you should be punished.

Again, this is very indicative of the differing attitudes I was talking about in my earlier post. I happen to share this attitude.
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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2011, 06:10:16 PM »

I've never been drunk, and I don't really drink, but I love me a good drunk.  Some people shouldn't drink because they make stupid decisions, like driving or operating machinery that they can't comprehend, and when they get drunk, it only gets worse.  Other people are good drunks, they get drunk and say I love you a lot, dance, and lose their boots and make for funny laughy time for all around, and then they can laugh about it the next day.
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« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2011, 06:13:17 PM »

Narrator from Shin Chan...

"I'm not sure why I'm telling you this, except that it's 7 a.m., and I've been drinking!"
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« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2011, 06:20:22 PM »

my attitude about drinking. this has been my anthem since i was seventeen.... (NSFW)

Small | Large
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« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2011, 06:30:21 PM »


I only drink occasionally. In my friends and family circle, there is a mix that ranges from full blown alcoholics to water swillers only. I don't judge them either way.  BUT for the ones that indulge too much and need a ride home PLEASE DON'T GET SICK IN MY CAR!  Buggedout
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« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2011, 06:32:54 PM »

Quote
I don't have any opinion about teetotallers or those who drink to excess.  For me, it's a live and let live kind of attitude.  But if you drive drunk and kill someone you should bloody well go to jail with all of the other killers because you chose to break the law and you should be punished.

Again, this is very indicative of the differing attitudes I was talking about in my earlier post. I happen to share this attitude.
I agree 100%. I DID wreck a truck-when I was drunk. I almost killed someone. Evil. Drunk driving kills. If I had killed someone-I couldnt live with myself. Id kill myself.
Any addiction-booze,drugs,whatever...is hard to stop. I am an alchoholic....I didnt spell that right!-I have been since I was 13! Lived around old Polish and Russian farmers....way of life. And I drink. I tried drugs.Pot-nah.LSD-YEAH! Coke,meth....awful. Speed kills.
But I am a drunk.
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