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Skull
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« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2011, 11:12:35 AM »

Oh Flick James, your hurting your brain.

Originally, Luke was supose to be Vaders son and in Star Wars they were supose to battle in the Death Star. Although, most Star Wars fans keep forgetting that George Lukas has rewritten the script several times before the final version.

I believe George droped the idea of Father vs Son and decided to cook a revenge tale of the boy vs the man that killed his father... And I do believe in the rewrite Luke and Leia was supose to fall in love.

Although I do recall most of the girls liking Han over Luke and Harrison Ford started to emerge into a very successful actor, so in part 2 the script was writen for Han to fall in love with Leia. I also believe the concept of boy vs the man that killed his dad begin to work its way into that man is my father! A twist that shocks most Star Wars fans, especially since we didnt have such sorces as the internet.

The plot hole from this point... is the Skywalker/Tatooine... If Darth Vader was actually Lukes father it would be smarter for him to scoop up his kid when he was young and convert him into the darkside... But instead of doing all that we tend to forgive the plot hole with the concept of space coolness and Darth Vader is too buisy in ruling the stars to worrie about his almost forgotten son... And remember the story then suggests he always knew he had a son.

The twist between Luke and Leia was cooked up in part 3... I believe since the "I'm your father" was such a hit that George and company decides to repeat themselves once more and make Leia his sister... [there could be several reasons why, but I feel the intent was aimed towards the chemistry of Han and Leia and it was felt that Luke's character is hinder by the romance]

This plot hole becomes bothersome by most fans that kept the storyline seriously since Darth Vader stars to assume the ability to recongnize his sons presence, then Star Wars fans start questing why didnt Vader realize Leia was his daughter in Star Wars... it's quite easy to understand why he didnt notice Luke because Obi-Wan was in the area and it was then assumed that maybe he did something to mask Luke. But Leia was another story.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 11:16:08 AM by Skull » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2011, 09:18:14 PM »

Here's another one that bugs me.

So, after all but two of the jedi are destroyed, Yoda and Obi-Wan go into hiding, and while they're at it, they take Leia and Luke into hiding. Leia is adopted and assumes the name Organa rather than Skywalker. However, Luke is taken to live with his uncle under the name Skywalker. How dumb is that? They conceal Leia pretty well, but they take Luke and have him live with the same family that his father had grown up with, and use the name Skywalker. It just doesn't seem like there were trying to hard in Luke's case to hide his identity.

there wasn't really much of a reason to hide them.  Obi Wan left Anakin for dead and as far as Anakin knew he accidentally killed Padme and his own kids.
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« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2011, 06:48:38 AM »

Here's another one that bugs me.

So, after all but two of the jedi are destroyed, Yoda and Obi-Wan go into hiding, and while they're at it, they take Leia and Luke into hiding. Leia is adopted and assumes the name Organa rather than Skywalker. However, Luke is taken to live with his uncle under the name Skywalker. How dumb is that? They conceal Leia pretty well, but they take Luke and have him live with the same family that his father had grown up with, and use the name Skywalker. It just doesn't seem like there were trying to hard in Luke's case to hide his identity.

there wasn't really much of a reason to hide them.  Obi Wan left Anakin for dead and as far as Anakin knew he accidentally killed Padme and his own kids.
Kind of my initial reaction too.  Skull also brings up some good points about massive Lucas plot holes.  Though the Leia/Luke plot twist kind of began at the end of ESB with Luke using the Force to contact Leia. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 06:50:41 AM by The DarkSider » Logged

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Skull
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« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2011, 09:52:04 AM »

Here's another one that bugs me.

So, after all but two of the jedi are destroyed, Yoda and Obi-Wan go into hiding, and while they're at it, they take Leia and Luke into hiding. Leia is adopted and assumes the name Organa rather than Skywalker. However, Luke is taken to live with his uncle under the name Skywalker. How dumb is that? They conceal Leia pretty well, but they take Luke and have him live with the same family that his father had grown up with, and use the name Skywalker. It just doesn't seem like there were trying to hard in Luke's case to hide his identity.

there wasn't really much of a reason to hide them.  Obi Wan left Anakin for dead and as far as Anakin knew he accidentally killed Padme and his own kids.
Kind of my initial reaction too.  Skull also brings up some good points about massive Lucas plot holes.  Though the Leia/Luke plot twist kind of began at the end of ESB with Luke using the Force to contact Leia.  

Or as Yoda said to Obi-Wan's ghost "there's another."

Although at the end of Empire, Luke was calling for help so was seen as he was using his Jedi powers to contact Leia. Sure the intent could of made Leia into Lukes sister at that point, but Leia was also captured by Vader for a second time. So you would think Vader would sense that Leia is a jedi or his daughter at the second time, especially since Vader starts to show his uncanning ability to sense his son's existance... And thru the prequel's the Jedi's seem to have an uncanning ability to sense each other or recognize those with the ability to become Jedi's (some silly blood cell theory)

Oddly, it also seems from the start of Empire Vader was on a mission to capture Luke.

Quote from: Opening crawl
The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space….

This doesnt seems so bad at first because we believe Vader is out to stop Luke from his revenge, then it seem to change as a new plot evolves into trapping Luke and convert him into the darkside, then later it becomes that Luke is actually Vader's son... Which doesnt actually becomes the problem. There is a billion upon billion of planets so Luke could be hiding anywhere.

The problem starts when we discover Vader was born in Tatooine, when it was shown in Episode One: Anakin The Menance... and suddenly rewatching Star Wars takes a new dirction... "So Vader knows Luke is his son and he was living with his family from Tatooine then why was Vader so stupid in not collecting his son from the start?" Yep, Vader looks stupid in Star War and quite foolish in Empire since he doesnt seem to know who is C3-PO...

Outch! the prequels hurt my brain...




« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 09:55:45 AM by Skull » Logged

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Flick James
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« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2011, 10:22:02 AM »

Here's another one that bugs me.

So, after all but two of the jedi are destroyed, Yoda and Obi-Wan go into hiding, and while they're at it, they take Leia and Luke into hiding. Leia is adopted and assumes the name Organa rather than Skywalker. However, Luke is taken to live with his uncle under the name Skywalker. How dumb is that? They conceal Leia pretty well, but they take Luke and have him live with the same family that his father had grown up with, and use the name Skywalker. It just doesn't seem like there were trying to hard in Luke's case to hide his identity.

there wasn't really much of a reason to hide them.  Obi Wan left Anakin for dead and as far as Anakin knew he accidentally killed Padme and his own kids.
Kind of my initial reaction too.  Skull also brings up some good points about massive Lucas plot holes.  Though the Leia/Luke plot twist kind of began at the end of ESB with Luke using the Force to contact Leia.  

Or as Yoda said to Obi-Wan's ghost "there's another."

Although at the end of Empire, Luke was calling for help so was seen as he was using his Jedi powers to contact Leia. Sure the intent could of made Leia into Lukes sister at that point, but Leia was also captured by Vader for a second time. So you would think Vader would sense that Leia is a jedi or his daughter at the second time, especially since Vader starts to show his uncanning ability to sense his son's existance... And thru the prequel's the Jedi's seem to have an uncanning ability to sense each other or recognize those with the ability to become Jedi's (some silly blood cell theory)

Oddly, it also seems from the start of Empire Vader was on a mission to capture Luke.

Quote from: Opening crawl
The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space….

This doesnt seems so bad at first because we believe Vader is out to stop Luke from his revenge, then it seem to change as a new plot evolves into trapping Luke and convert him into the darkside, then later it becomes that Luke is actually Vader's son... Which doesnt actually becomes the problem. There is a billion upon billion of planets so Luke could be hiding anywhere.

The problem starts when we discover Vader was born in Tatooine, when it was shown in Episode One: Anakin The Menance... and suddenly rewatching Star Wars takes a new dirction... "So Vader knows Luke is his son and he was living with his family from Tatooine then why was Vader so stupid in not collecting his son from the start?" Yep, Vader looks stupid in Star War and quite foolish in Empire since he doesnt seem to know who is C3-PO...

Outch! the prequels hurt my brain...






And you said I was hurting MY brain. Yeesh.  TeddyR
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Skull
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« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2011, 11:22:13 AM »

~rant warning~
~rant warning~
~rant warning~

I wish I wasnt so forced into looking deeply into the Star Wars franchise, I'm not even sure where I can point my finger. I would partly blame the movie critics since every space move that came out after Star Wars (1977) was consider inferior because of the plotting and special effects. And then again it took over 20 freaking years for the prequels to come out.

If I had 10 million dollars, 20 years to write a script and a respectable fan base... Crap I'd be writing one hell of a masterpiece...

Instead, George Lucas ends up producing a move that was inspired from the success of Home Alone. Freaking Home Alone! Gee! (actually worse... the pod race almost looked like something inspired from The Little Rascals (1994) )

And then we must believe that little Anakin...who save the ass of everybody that was stuck on Tatooine (because it was him and only him that won the pod race) and then he and only he stoped the robot army attack... and knowing Padmé character tends not to follow any rules... so what reward is Anakin given for his deeds... Jack! And we must believe that his mother was still a slave... Gee you would think Padmé could spend a few pennies; least free the kids mother from slavery.

But no and it becomes the fuel of Anakins anger...

Like I said many times before: if George written that Padmé was a plot from the darkside and revealed it in Episode III we would be saying how great the prequels is... but George fails and so did the prequels.
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Mr. DS
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« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2011, 11:51:44 AM »

^  Agreed on many points.   George Lucas suffers from a few different things as an artist.  The first and foremost being the complete lack of focus on worthwhile plot points and characters.  Most of the whole Episode 1 foolishness SHOULD have been wrapped up in an opening scroll.  

Quote
A trade federation attempted to overtake the once peaceful city of Queen Amidala.  During Queen Amidala's escape her Jedi protectors found a young boy who harnessed great strength in the Force named Anakin.  Upon return to Amidala's return to her home planet the Jedi's came across an evil Sith Lord.  


This is where we join up with Qui Gon and Obi Wan taking on Darth Maul. Now you have two hours to fill of decent action and characer development.  We didn't need the damn "Lil Annie" hyjynks and no Star Wars fan wanted it!  After we lose Qui Gon we could have fast forwarded into Anakin dealing with some anger issues but let him get over that crap by the second one.  Then let the unfortunate events surround him (death of mother, girlfriend, loss of friends) turn him to the dark side.   One day he just cracks and kills a bunch of people out of pressure.  But alas, it didn't happen that way.   How can I feel bad for Anakin when he was a whiny little beeyotch.  

George also created a bad situation for Jedis.  They honestly kind of come off as wimpy.  Every time they take on a Sith Lord they have to outnumber them and often still lose! 

George can say all he wants how "Star Wars is for kids" but has this guy even looked at his fan base???

« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 11:54:39 AM by The DarkSider » Logged

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Flick James
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« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2011, 12:20:59 PM »

Quote
George can say all he wants how "Star Wars is for kids" but has this guy even looked at his fan base???

Perhaps one of the simplest and finest points made thus far, DS. George Lucas simply lost his edge in the years between these two trilogies. What we're left with is a sad attempt to tie in to the original trilogy laced with the likes of Jar Jar Binks. I mean, it's not like GL couldn't write meaningful dialogue before. The romantic tension between Han and Leia was perfectly believable and natural, yet when you hear the horrid dialogue between Anakin and Padme it's like nails on a chalkboard. What the hell happened? It's like he's trying to make a Disney film and doesn't know how.
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« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2011, 01:16:39 PM »

...when you hear the horrid dialogue between Anakin and Padme it's like nails on a chalkboard.
"Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo." BounceGiggle
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« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2011, 01:49:23 PM »

...when you hear the horrid dialogue between Anakin and Padme it's like nails on a chalkboard.
"Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo." BounceGiggle
Oh Annie...

Which brings me to this...there are some very important things Lucas needed to establish in the prequels.  #1 Anakin's fall to the Dark Side...it came off as simply stupid and unbelievable.  I actually would have bought it more if Anakin flipped a coin.  FAIL

Secondly, we need to believe that Anakin and Padme had the love of a lifetime.  A love that ends up costing him too much in the end.  Their romance once again...stupid and unbelievable.  Anakin carries a hard on for her since he call her an "angel" (groans.......) on Tatoonie.  Thus this boyhood crush leads into his teenage years.  They spend a weekend on Naboo and then she gives it up to him after being in a death arena.  FAIL

Lastly, the rise of the Emperor which was mildly pulled off somewhere in the background behind Jar Jar, Annie and the other horsesh!t.   Its almost as if it were a subplot thrown in for the heck of it.  However, and disagree with me if you want, it IS the story.  Anakin's rise, fall and redemption to me is simply a silly thing to base this whole thing around.  For me its about fun characters and intergalatic warfare.  What lil Annie is feeling inside I could have given a frog's fat @ss for in the long run.  So once again..........FAIL
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« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2011, 10:42:57 PM »

I mean, it's not like GL couldn't write meaningful dialogue before.


Actually, from what I've heard, its a lot like that. Its quite arguable that the reason the original trilogy turned out as good as it did was because Lucas was surrounded by people who could reign in his bs, including his ex-wife, and as the link below indicates, his actors. The real problem with George is that he actually believes himself to be an incredible visionary whose ideas are perfect, forgetting or ignoring those who steered him in the right direction.

http://geektwins.blogspot.com/2010/11/harrison-ford-george-lucas-writes-bleep.html
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« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2011, 11:05:23 PM »

I'll tell you what bugs me, if Yoda is such a bad ass, why did he hide from Vader and the Empire all of these years?  If Anakin was the most powerful Jedi ever, then why did he loose the battle with Obi-Wan? This one answers itself: If Anakin is the most powerful Jedi ever why did it take both him and the Emporor to destroy Mace? Answer: Samuel L. Jackson is such an over-rated ego maniac that he bullied Lucas into writing Mace as the "FAKE" bad ass he always plays. And the thing that bugs me most, why did they get a wuss like Hayden Christensen to play the biggest bad ass in sci-fi history and turn him into a big F'N p***y?
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« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2011, 07:25:50 AM »

Which brings me to this...there are some very important things Lucas needed to establish in the prequels.  #1 Anakin's fall to the Dark Side...it came off as simply stupid and unbelievable.  I actually would have bought it more if Anakin flipped a coin.  FAIL

He went too far too fast. One minute he's worried about his wife and kind of disgruntled, and the next he's completely bought into the Sith point of view and prepared to do anything the emperor asks.

I know he slaughtered a whole village of Sand People earlier, but even that seemed a huge leap, regardless of what the circumstances were. And so little was made of it afterward. He commits an act of mass murder that would indicate some serious mental instability on his part, and Padme might as well have responded with "Oh you poor thing." And then later on it's a big shock when he goes over to the Dark Side.

Anakin's basically been a troubled good guy all along, who does nothing wrong most of the time, but suddenly turns into a homicidal maniac on a couple of occasions. Kevin Murphy put it really well on Rifftrax, when Anakin leads the assault on the Jedi temple. "Wow, from noble Jedi to child murderer without even some cheque kiting as a warmup."
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« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2011, 08:00:39 AM »

Have to go with the obvious, all the smooching between Luke and Leia before the end of Return of the Jedi.

"I've had all 6 of these stories planned out from the beginning!" No, you didn't.
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« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2011, 11:57:17 PM »

Vader building C3-PO was a shark jumping moment. Leia being Luke's sister was the only weak moment in the original  "Return of the Jedi." And by original I don't mean the special edition with "Jumper" Boy's face CGI'd over Sebastian Shaw's Anakin.
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