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Latest Member: ShelleyRud Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Thoughts on 9/11? « previous next »
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Author Topic: Thoughts on 9/11?  (Read 14919 times)
Flick James
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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2011, 01:46:41 PM »

Flick, I would never question your patriotism, nor your basic good sense. You and I have both worn the uniform, and served this country at different times. I only question your conclusions!

The blowback of 9/11 came BEFORE we went into Iraq or Afghanistan.  Hell, we HELPED the Afghans get rid of the Soviets, then left them to their own devices.  They paid us back with fire and blood.  I think 9/11 was an act of war, not a crime, and war was the only valid response.  The war was not always handled very well, it is true.  But I do think the people of Iraq are better off today than they were before, and I do think there is a small chance that a more progressive government may indeed take root there.  Time will tell the answer to that question.

  Incidentally, one thing of some note - the thing that really drove the decision to go into Iraq was not so much the horrendous events of 9/11, but an event that unfolded about the same time and is almost forgotten today.  That is, the anthrax attacks that were waged by persons unknown using the U.S. postal system.  Several people died, buildings were evacuated, public figures were targeted, and the entire country was panicked - by an amount of Anthrax that could have fit into a single Ziploc snack bag!  Knowing that Saddam had made and used similar weapons in the past (technically, he USED chemical weapons, but did experiment heavily with bio weapons before 1991), and given his chronic reputation as a trouble maker, it did not take too much imagination to see him handing off a five gallon bucket of weaponized anthrax to Al Qaeda, either directly or through an intermediary.  Or maybe giving it to Hizbollah.   Either way, in the wake of 9/11 and the anthrax attacks, getting rid of him was not necessarily a bad thing.

  But I do understand your position as well.  We have spent a great deal on two conflicts whose results are still uncertain.  You think we would have been smarter to simply stay home and beef up our defenses and our borders.  I am not sure that approach would have worked.  But I certainly see where you are coming from, and respect your thoughts on the issue.

So, we went to war in 2003 as a response to 9/11 or because of Anthrax in envelopes? We still don't really know, do we? That's the problem: no clearcut justification and no clear way to measure success. Invading Iraq didn't make much sense as a reaction to the 9/11 attacks, so we certainly can't measure anything there, can we? So instead we were told over and over that the reason was because of WMD's. Again, nothing much to measure there, unless you want to say that the lack of Anthrax scares that was present then is an indicator, but even then, it's not a correlary that establishes causation. And in the name of national defense, we will really never know, will we?

And on and on it goes. Given the way the government operates and how wars are handled today, I would say that peacetime is virtually unseeable, and that our nation will be locked in perpetual war. The cost of this is far greater than you seem to be willing to acknowledge. And for what? Please tell me the measure of our success. Point out to me where the result has been worth the cost of lives, of families torn apart, of generations of service members suffering from PTSD, and not to mention the monetary debt that generations will be paying for. And please, please don't change the subject and say "what about what we spend on entitlements?" Because we're not talking about that. This country is so locked in stalemate political polarization that the best our elected officials  seem to be able to do is say "but what about what THEY do?"

No, I'm afraid we can't afford it anymore. We can't afford runaway entitlements, we can't afford runaway military spending on perpetual war to he point of bankruptcy. We can't afford generations of warbound Americans. Sooner or later it will break us. We will become the militant/socialist/nationalist regime that we are supposed to despise. We're being buried underneath it all and too few people have the sense to see it.

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major jay
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« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2011, 03:39:59 PM »

I live about 30 miles from Somerset County (where flight 93 crashed). I was at work and we took break at 10:00. I went outside to have a cigarette (no one else did they were glued to the news). I then hear and saw a jet coming. It was flying low and slow and the engines slowed way way down as it went by. I felt uneasy about it, but figured it was landing at a nearby airport. When I went back to work I heard about the crash, but it didn't occur to me that it may have been the same plane. Later on I put 2 and 2 together, but still wasn't sure it was the same plane until a month or so later when a friend told me that someone who works at the airport said it flew directly over our building. I sometimes wonder if the plane slowed down because they were storming the cock pit.   

Umaril The Unfeathered
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« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2011, 03:57:53 PM »

I was half-asleep as the phone rang around 9:30 in the morning, and I missed it. My wife (at that time) left a message: "Turn on the TV but don't panic."

Turning the set on, and seeing the horror that unfolded, I soon awoke and like many of you, developed the same array of senses and feelings many of you have already described, and then some. And like many more of us, I too thought it was some sort of bad dream or some alternate universe we suddenly found ourselves in as disbelief set in. To this day, it still seems like it was a dream.

More personal memories include:

My next-door-neighbor was then a Navy Reserve officer (EO 3) and he was called to active duty. I shook hands with him a day or two before he left, and wished him good luck.  His wife was a nervous wreck the day he left, and tied a Yellow Ribbon around their tree, and on the antenna on her car. My wife (at the time) and I helped her out with as much as we could to help take the worry off of her shoulders.

Eventually her husband came back, and he's since left the Navy and is now a firefighter with our local dept.

One more thing: One fine morning about a week before the war began...our state, local and regional airbases deployed their attack choppers and aircraft as they went to their rallying points for departure.   For about an hour there were intermittent waves of aircraft thundering overhead, as some of our neighbors cheered and yelled for them to kick some ass (as well as some other things they should do to the enemy, LOL).

It suddenly hit me how big thins thing really was..

I'd never seen anything like that in my life, ever, and to this day the sights and sounds of Our Boys leaving for combat was something I'll never forget.

Tam-Riel na nou Sancremath.
Dawn's Beauty is our shining home.

An varlais, nou bala, an kynd, nou latta.
The stars are our power, the sky is our light.

Malatu na nou karan.
Truth is our armor.

Malatu na bala
Truth is power.

Heca, Pellani! Agabaiyane Ehlnadaya!
Be gone, outsiders! I do not fear your mortal gods!

Auri-El na nou ata, ye A, Umaril, an Aran!
Aure-El is our father, and I, Umaril, the king!
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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2011, 08:23:12 PM »

Flick - just so this thread doesn't get derailed, I'll respond later via PM.
I'd rather this be more about the memories of the day and less about the repercussions and politics, even if I did start that detour! TeddyR

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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2011, 08:40:17 PM »

I was 10 years old when it happened and remembered being in either 3rd or 4th grade.  I think the teacher briefly mentioned or talked about it to another teacher, but no one really brought up (probably not to frighten us).  I do remember that the next mass we had (went to a Catholic grade school), it was brought up during the sermon.  I do remember a year later on the first anniversity that we had big memorial service for everyone affected by this and we released doves.

Back to the day it happened, my mother was horrified by it and pulled me out of school for a bit (she wanted me close at home).  I don't remember watching much about it, mostly because I probably couldn't comprend all of it.  I did watch some news reports about it though.


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i got better
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2011, 09:39:56 PM »

I was in second grade on 9/11, which would put at age 7 I believe. I still remember it fairly clear even if I didn't really know what was going on. My teacher explained stuff to us and told us we had to stay inside instead of going outside for recess. Of course being 7 year olds none of use got why we couldn't go outside. I guess I knew something bad had happened, but none of us could really understand it.

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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2011, 11:32:09 PM »

I did what I don't do.  I'm posting where I didn't read... I couldn't read any of it, except Circus and Trevor,  I can't read it guys, I can't look at it. 

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« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2011, 02:00:42 AM »

I remember it being really surreal at first.  My brother'd woken me up and told me that one of the towers had just collapsed after having been hit by a plane.  I really didn't seem real at first, but the horror of it all sunk in before too long.  I remember being afraid that more attacks and tragedy would follow.  I had to work my theater usher job later that night and it was a weird shift.  Very few people came in to see movies, and I remember most of them saying that they were trying to take their mind off of things.  We kept the lobby televisions on the news and everyone just kind of stood or sat around talking about all of the events that day.

I'm not a big fan of extreme patriotism; I feel that too much national pride is unhealthy.  There's nothing inherently wrong with being proud of where one is from or lives, but I don't like the global separation or the hostility towards other nations that it can bring.  In spite of this it was kind of wonderful to see so much of US rally together.  I wish we could maintain that kind of brotherhood and I wish it'd spill out into and from the rest of the world, not in the sake of defense or retaliation, but for the sake of love.  It's impossible, I know.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 02:10:16 AM by Pilgermann » Logged

Jim H
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« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2011, 05:53:53 PM »

I was in english class, pretty sleepy still...  When in came my science teacher wheeling a television, explaining a plane had struck the World Trade Center.  Minutes after he got it up, the second plane struck.  I remember feeling like my stomach was going to fall out of me.

We stayed in class, I have no idea why, and just watched the news until it was time to go.  I remember in third period, my teacher saying, "Anyone who says anything about how 'cool' or 'awesome' this is I will throw out the goddamn window".  I agreed, but still remember seeing one student with a big smile on his face.  Saying something quietly to that effect.  I felt like punching him in the face.  Probably should have.

Soon after that, I asked my teacher if I could go to the payphone and call my mom, since my sister lives in Manhattan.  He gave me the go ahead, and I found out they'd made it out fine.  Her husband is a lawyer, and had worked in the towers before.  They saw the planes hit out of a window. 

Another memory I have is of another teacher in my school crying.  Her son worked in the WTC in the top half, don't remember which tower...  But, he was working that day.  She later found out he'd run out to get donuts, and saw the planes hit from outside.  I presume his co-workers were not so lucky.

I'm not sure what else to say.  Ten years already.
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« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2011, 07:05:12 PM »

I remember I was in Art class first day of high school junior when the principle made the announcement that a plane crashed into one of the towers. Didn't think much of it thought it was a accident. But kids were calling parents and such and seemed  serious. Than the second announcement and I knew something was up.

My grandfather picked me from school and he kept a straight face about it. Until that night. My grandfather cried. He was in WWII in Navy and was at Iwojima and Okinawa. Vietnam as a construction worker. He a only cried one other time. When my grandmother died.

Not only that we were New Yorkers. My grandfather was a retired carpenter Local 608. He built the Twin Towers. To see his work come crashing down must have been... I don't even know. About month later My mother (Who works for NYPD) and I went to the site to see it. The Mayor set up view to look. I can't describe the devastation. It was a shock really.

10 years. Wow.

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Flick James
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« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2011, 07:29:26 PM »

I was in the Navy at the time. My ship, carrier USS Dwight D Eisenhower, had gone into dry-dock not long before for a complete rehab, so I was enjoying the benefit of virtual shore duty with sea pay.

Those that were living onboard like I was were assigned to temporary housing around the Newport News, Virginia area including apartments and barracks on Fort Eustis. I ended up in a barracks room at the latter.

I was at work onboard the ship on a pretty uneventful day thus far. My buddy told me that a plane had crashed into the WTC, so I stepped out with him to the smoke deck. We were at work in a shipyard, so we had little to no access to any breaking news. For at least an hour I was under the impression that some private aircraft piloted by some idiot had crashed in the WTC and figured no lasting damage had been done. Soon after the second plane hit, I started hearing the real story, little by little, and my heart began to sink, little by little. Then my workcenter pulled us all together and started going over security precautions and alerts, and informed us  that were staying at Fort Eustis to expect significant delays at the gates. I had no cell phone at the time, and of course my family was trying to reach me out of natural concern.

I remember feeling so confused and anxious, because I didn’t see any images of what had happened the entire day. I just kept hearing things people second hand. I kept hearing how horrible the images were, and could only try to imagine.

That evening, it took until 7 pm before I finally got back to my barracks room due to the delays getting onto the base, where normally I would have hit my room at 4 pm easily. I immediately picked up the phone to call home and flicked on the TV at the same time. As my mother answered the phone, during the first 30 seconds of the conversation, I was finally seeing the images for the VERY FIRST TIME. I was stunned into silence as my dear mother was saying “James. James, are you there?”

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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2011, 02:51:05 AM »

I just got back from work (early afternoon, European time) and was browsing the internet. I read a thread posted at my other forum about a plane crashing into the WTC. I thought it was an accident. Shortly after I turned on my TV and soon enough saw the second plane hit.
I was shocked and confused, and when I read the "U.S. under attack" news ticker thingie on CNN I was even more shocked.

The next morning two Iranian guys at work where seen laughing (apparently joking about the attack even though they denied doing so when called into the office by our boss) while everyone else was pretty much devastated.

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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2011, 11:26:30 PM »

I think most of us who lived through that day remember it and what we were doing at the time we first learned of this horrible tragedy. I recall family paying us a visit that day, my aunt and uncle. I wasn't working at the time. I recall the whole family gathering around the small TV I had in my bedroom at the time as the main TV set in the living room had given out. First when I saw it, I honestly did not think it was real. I really believed on first appearance it was some TV movie only to discover this really was happening. I was shocked and stunned as I saw replays of the events of that day on the TV. It seemed surreal. Then we learned that all flights in and out of the U.S. Airspace were cancelled and numerous planes that day landed in my home province. Many people from all over the world that day were unexpectedly stranded right here in my home province, in particular in the town of Gander and its surrounding area. I say with pride that my home province stepped up, the Red Cross and Salvation Army and numerous volunteers pitched in to provide food, shelter and a sense of relief to all these stranded people. Some even opened their own homes to take in strangers and treated them as if they were family and/or lifelong friends. Knowing that makes me proud to be a Newfoundlander. I was glad my people could provide a little something, however small, good on that day and the days that followed.

But this event has certainly changed the world. Do the same freedoms exist now in today's world of suspicion? Can they ever again? Whatever the case we cannot go on living in fear yet we must remain cautious as well. It isn't right to group all one group of people as this great evil threat as threats can come in any color or creed. Our world as an whole changed that day...everytime you take a plane, the extra security, etc..
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 11:42:32 PM by JaseSF » Logged

"This above all: To thine own self be true!"
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« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2011, 12:32:50 PM »

I should add though that it wasn't only Newfoundland that pitched in to help stranded passengers. There were also considerable efforts made in the Canadian Maritimes and B.C. as well and most likely other Canadian ports as well.

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« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2011, 02:07:32 PM »

I was asleep (worked a night job at the time).  My friend Jake called and woke me up awfully early to tell me we were under attack.  I watched the news for a while.

What I remember most clearly is the explosion of hate that followed the attacks, the calls for the eradication of all Muslims worldwide and the nuking of the entire Middle East, and all that.  My own thinking had been "find who did it and get them".  To realize that such a moderate attitude was apparently overwhelmingly in the minority and that most people just wanted to kill, kill, kill was heartbreaking.  I was always something of a misanthrope; that pushed it right over the edge.  I've never been the same.

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