Offensive Humor

[Flick James]

Observe the following clip from Curb Your Enthusiasm (sorry, embedding doesn't work for this clip):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cADbkb12UUg
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For whatever reason, Larry David can get away with this kind of humor, and you never hear anybody have a problem with scenes like that one. He makes fun of all kinds of things that are sensitive and controversial themes besides race. Trey Parker and Matt Stone are remarkable in their ability to do those things as well. They did an episode of South Park where the "n" word was addressed and they got away with things that virtually NOBODY can accomplish, and yet many black people approved of the episode.

Personally, there is not much that offends me. I believe in equal treatment under the law, but aside from that, when it comes to the arts and entertainment, I say do whatever you want. But in this day and age, I find it fascinating how some people can get away with things that others can't.

I just thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss. Who else can you think of that seems to be able to push the "taboo" envelope and get away with things that most others can't?

[Mr. DS]

Dave Chapelle did a great job with it.  I still think he's one of the best comics ever.

[zombie no.one]

The Office had a lot of near the knuckle racially based humour. (UK version. maybe the US version did too but I haven't seen many episodes). I can't find the clip I'm looking for but here's one example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cir05JyEsV0
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[HappyGilmore]

Already mentioned, but Matt Stone and Trey Parker come to mind.

Their writing is really good.

[RCMerchant]

Lisa Lampanelli kills me-NSFW!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t7EZK_yrP8
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[Mofo Rising]

Well, it really matters why the joke is being told.

It's easy to be offensive. Incredibly easy. But what is the motivation behind it?

Let's tackle the racism first. The reason the Curb Your Enthusiasm clip and that South Park episode work is because they are explorations of the racism that still exist in society today. The jokes themselves are not racist (well, okay, they are), but the real basis of the humor is in those awkward situations where the subtle racism in people's thinking shows its ugly head.

That's a nuanced view, but it is still one that is interested in discussing the role of race in society. That's an interesting topic. Compare that to this girl I knew, a girlfriend of a roommate of mine. Every joke she told me was a racist joke. Literally, every joke. Black people are easily arrestable, fried-chicken lovers.

That girl's jokes were told because she was a racist. She literally believed that black people were inferior and had no problem telling racist jokes. She never provided me with charts, but if every joke you tell is a "black people are stupid" joke, I'm going to figure out you're a racist. The reason she told those jokes is because she was racist, and her jokes were offensive. Offensive to me as a human being, I'm glad I don't know her anymore.

But that's a far cry from the clip, which is an example of the subtlety of racism in America today, and finding the humor in that.

Anyway, let's talk about offensive humor. When it is actually meant as a denigration, it's stupid and ugly. The people who spout them are s**t.

I make jokes that are unforgivable. I mean that quite literally, if you hear some of the things I say, and believe I meant them, you would be justifiable in viewing me as a monster. But I don't mean them. The offensiveness is the joke, that's where all the humor comes from.

When offensive humor really works, it's because it's understood that the offender does not really believe all of the things they are saying. It's the offensiveness that is the joke. I do not make many offensive jokes on this board. One, it's very hard to provide nuance in text. Two, I do not personally know everybody on this board. It may not be understood that I am joking, that the only reason I am saying something incredibly offensive is because the person I'm talking to knows I am joking.

Take the "dead baby" genre of jokes. I sure as hell hope that nobody finds the reality of dead babies funny, but the comedic concept is a gold mine. It is so incredibly offensive that it becomes funny. Dead babies aren't funny, offensiveness is. That was the whole point of that Aristocrats documentary.

Know your audience. If you've never made a friend break into tears about something that is morally reprehensible, well, you haven't experienced the entirety of life.

[AndyC]

That's exactly right. South Park and Curb Your Enthusiasm get away with it because they are very clearly satirizing something.

Denis Leary always got away with a lot of offensiveness because the point he was making was clear. Same with George Carlin, although he had his troubles early on.

On the other hand, you get somebody like Andrew Dice Clay, who was difficult to separate from his on-stage persona, and very easy to take at face value, and he becomes a pariah.

Many people found Archie Bunker offensive, because they didn't get the satirical nature of the character. He's remembered as one of the great TV characters because most understood that he represented real people of the time, formed part of a real dialogue that was going on between the older and younger generations at the time, and often held his offensive views up to scrutiny and ridicule.

I think it often comes down to whether the offensiveness has a clear purpose, and whether it seems to be glorifying, condemning or simply shedding light on something. Going back to Dice, the impression he gave his fans was not that his character was an idiot, but that he was cool. Leary, meanwhile, put the offensiveness in the context of a rant that made valid points. Carlin did it almost in the form of a lecture, and urged his audience to question why things are offensive.

[Flick James]

Good analysis, Mofo. I agree. I do find it fascinating that some are able to do and others can't. Often I have some cynical views of humanity, but there are times when I find that humans have some pretty remarkable instinctual abilities. Despite the bizarro, constantly confusing "cultural diversity" culture in which we live, people seem to be able to detect when humor is genuinely racist and when it's making fun of racism, I think mainly because people can sense when a person is racist and when they aren't. That's just something that no amount of social engineering will ever correct, supplement, or replace.

I make racial comments and jokes at work with a couple of black coworkers on a fairly consistent basis. Another white coworker does as well. The two black coworkers get on his case about some of his comments, but seem to give me carte blanche.

This other white cowork said once "why is it James can say some of the things he says and you guy get offended by the stuff I say?"

One of them said "because James is alright."

This simple phrase was more powerful than it seems on the surface. Essentially what he was saying was that he recognized no ill feelings, hatred, bigotry, or malice in any of our interactions, whereas with the other guy, he did. Personally I've sensed that there is genuine bigotry in this other guy as well. And that's my point. People just seem to know. There is a sixth sense that people just have that senses things like feeling, intents, love, hatred, etc. Some people's radar is stronger than others, of course, but everybody has it to some extent.

[zombie no.one]

how would you categorize this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NnvUjozzQM
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(bad language warning, just in case)

[Mofo Rising]

Good analysis, Mofo. I agree. I do find it fascinating that some are able to do and others can't. Often I have some cynical views of humanity, but there are times when I find that humans have some pretty remarkable instinctual abilities.

Well, racism aside, it does take a bit of skill to make people laugh by offending them.

I've spent, oh, the last twenty years or so making people laugh by pushing them just beyond the edge of what they are comfortable with. I'm very familiar with the line because I've crossed it way too many times to count. I tried a joke, but it just ended up hurting or offending the person I was talking to.

My favorite story was when a girl straight-up hit me for an off-color comment. She apologized later, but my only response was, "No, I pretty much deserved that." (I'll save you the content of the joke.)

My roommate at the time would try to say jokes I said to other people and would make enemies for life. "When I say it, it's funny. When you say it, it's hurtful and cruel."

So I'm very good at figuring out just how far a person is willing to go with offensive jokes, and then just pushing them a little bit further. It's a game.

Picture my poor brother, who I live with. I never need to worry about offending my brother, so he hears the most awful, incredibly hateful and offensive comments you can imagine. I'm joking, of course, but you don't want to hear the s**t that comes out my mouth when I realize I have a free reign.

If you're willing to do it, and I am, it's sort of amazing the things you can make people laugh about.