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October 21, 2014, 02:05:32 AM
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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Weird News Stories  |  parents name new born Adolf Hitler, lose custody of him « previous next »
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Author Topic: parents name new born Adolf Hitler, lose custody of him  (Read 1543 times)
InformationGeek
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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 04:26:20 PM »

I bet did they nazi that coming.
But Anne Frankly, they deserved it. This is not reich.
Allright, these nazi jokes have been goring on for to long. This is getting out from mein kampfort zone.

Everytime I hear you say one of those puns, I hear a rimshot in the distance somewhere.
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« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2011, 06:05:58 PM »

I bet did they nazi that coming.
But Anne Frankly, they deserved it. This is not reich.
Allright, these nazi jokes have been goring on for to long. This is getting out from mein kampfort zone.

You're killin' me.

 BounceGiggle
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Mofo Rising
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« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2011, 06:45:58 AM »

ulthar, I agree with your sentiments, but I don't think that's what going on here.

Yes, the article is inflammatory, and it does not provide the whole story. I'm not an expert, but I hope it doesn't tell the whole story, because CPS stories should not be available to all. But the people involved emphatically say that they did not simply remove the children solely due to their names. In fact, they say they never would. We, as readers of this quickie internet story, do not have any access to the CPS case files, nor should we.

The blanket statement that the government is taking kids away because of what their parents name them is conjecture.

There's nothing in the article to say that the parents were negligent in any way. In fact, there's almost nothing in the article at all, but does the media have to be ultimately responsible for all decisions? The media is not government run, they're free to make their own decisions about what they want to say.

This isn't an issue of government restriction.

At the same time, I have to agree with Flick James. The fact that this couple named their children "Adolph Hitler" and "Aryan Nation" is gigantic warning sign that all is not right. It's every parent's right to name and raise their children, but when one of them decides to subject their child to the everlasting hell of being name "Adolph Hitler", I would say that's a pretty good reason to investigate that family further.

There's more to it than that blanket red statement you posted. In fact, there's nothing in the article to say that the government removed the child because of its name, although its implied because the news is lazy.
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« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2011, 01:13:57 PM »

Frankly, I'd consider just giving the kid the name Adolf Hitler to be child abuse.  Think about how that's going to be for the kid growing up.  He's got the sort of name that people will want to spit on him or punch him in the face just for having. 

And job hunting when he gets older isn't going to be much better.  How many people do you think are going to look at an application that says "Adolf Hitler" and want to call the guy back for an interview? 

A career in politics is straight out of the question. 
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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2011, 02:31:49 PM »

I'm glad I got some support.

Ulthar, I think you understand that I don't have a strict ideological difference on this matter. I do believe that, while children don't have rights until they are of legal age, they are deserving of some level of protection against abuse. If you don't, then I can see where you get your hardline stance here. If you believe that children should be no legal protection against abuse, then we will simply agree to disagree and move on. No problem.

If you do agree that there should be some protection against abuse, then what I'm saying is that the naming of a child Adolf Hitler can be argued as causing undue hardship and could be argued as potential abuse on its own. But, let's say that you don't agree with. Even then, I don't see that it is unreasonable to investigate for child abuse based on such a thing.

I'll relate it to a similar stance I take on prescription drugs, although I know it's not exactly the same thing. Now, this is my opinion, but I believe that putting kids on prescription drugs can constitute abuse in some situations. Kids don't have any choices. They live based on the choices made for them by their parents. Some parents will administer a prescription drug for necessary health reason. Some parents will administer a prescription drug because THEY don't want to deal with a difficult child. A kid may have a mild developmental or emotional issue that could reasonably be dealt with through behavioral methods without resorting to pharmaceuticals, but the parents take the prescription route more out of convenience to them than the health concerns of the child. I THINK THIS IS ABUSE. Some may disagree, but I do think at the very least it can be argued as abuse and potentially established as abuse in a court. The reason I believe this is because of the choice factor. What if the child becomes an adult and decides that he would rather have been free of drugs and deal with it behaviorally. Now he may be dependent on pharmaceuticals. I think he is justified in suing his parents in a case like this. Now, do we let the kid wait until he is 18 and let him arrive at that conclusion on his own? Or do we offer some form of legal protection?

My point is that in these types of situations, it's not easy to apply a blanket philosophical approach. It gets sticky.

My question to you would be, do you believe children should have some level of protection against abuse? If you do, then I would argue that naming a child Adolf Hitler, or a black child "n****r" would be examples of something that can be argued as abusive on it's own merits, or at least a strong indicator of potential abuse.

Anyway, I think I've gone as far as I can to explain my position. It's an interesting debate.
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ulthar
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« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2011, 10:55:22 PM »

Query:

Joseph Stalin had millions murdered.

Should all parents naming their children "Joseph" have their children removed and same be charged with child abuse?

I'm not just trying to be provocative; there really are some fundamental philosophies at work here.

(And for the record, those few that have tried to cross me on the issue of "protecting children until they can fend for themselves" can speak to the issue of what I believe on that....)

I've asked a pediatrician..one that I know personally to be a HUGE advocate for children from birth onward...for an opinion on this issue, and she said she thought it was INSANE to remove a child from the parents on the basis of ANY name.

If there was other abuse than the name...that's a separate issue...a separate point of discussion.  Sticking only to this issue of the name "Adolph Hitler," at what point does the parent's right to name their own child end?  What's the limit?  Who decides...and if other than the parent, then...well, what right does the parent actually have?

(Another aside...it's ONLY because I respect, and admire, you guys that I am engaging in this discussion with you at all...I hope you understand that).
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« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2011, 11:42:57 PM »

Quote
Query:

Joseph Stalin had millions murdered.

Should all parents naming their children "Joseph" have their children removed and same be charged with child abuse?
Nice try at a strawman there. 

Nobody is upset with them naming the guy "Adolf" (granted, it would be somewhat questionable if they did, but that's not the topic.)    People are upset that they named the kid "Adolf Hitler", somebody who's known for being the most hated man in history.   Even if they had named him "Joseph Stalin" instead of just the "Joseph" that your trying to make an argument for that name still doesn't carry the same weight that Adolf Hitler does.  There are more than just a few people that don't know anything about Stalin other than he's "some Russian tyrant" but EVERYBODY knows Adolf Hitler is a grade A scum of the earth. 

Now let me ask you a question.
Is there anything you don't think parents should be able to name children? 
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« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2011, 11:45:19 PM »


Now let me ask you a question.
Is there anything you don't think parents should be able to name children? 


"Be able" is the fundamental question.

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« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2011, 11:46:37 PM »


Now let me ask you a question.
Is there anything you don't think parents should be able to name children? 


"Be able" is the fundamental question.


A question you still haven't answered. 
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« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2011, 12:52:38 AM »

Okay, fair enough.  I think the fundamental right belongs to the individual.  What to do you think?  That "be able" is a government...collective decision?
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« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2011, 02:00:31 AM »

Okay, fair enough.  I think the fundamental right belongs to the individual.  What to do you think?  That "be able" is a government...collective decision?
So, you'd have no problem with somebody being named Sackofs**t or n****r?  Because, to a good deal of people, that's more or less the same level as naming somebody Adolf Hitler.

What I think is that there are some things kids just shouldn't be named, and anybody that does name a kid these things has already proven that they don't have enough good judgement to raise a kid.
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« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2011, 02:04:19 AM »


already proven that they don't have enough good judgement to raise a kid.



And yet...we support the right to play violent video games.   Wow.

No...no contradiction here at all...
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« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2011, 09:25:10 AM »

If you can't tell the difference between letting a kid play a videogame and naming them Adolf Friggin' Hitler, then I don't see any point bothering to talk to you on this one.  Obviously, you're values are so different than mine that they might as well be alien for all the sense they make.
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« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2011, 10:02:58 AM »

Query:

Joseph Stalin had millions murdered.

Should all parents naming their children "Joseph" have their children removed and same be charged with child abuse?

I'm not just trying to be provocative; there really are some fundamental philosophies at work here.

(And for the record, those few that have tried to cross me on the issue of "protecting children until they can fend for themselves" can speak to the issue of what I believe on that....)

I've asked a pediatrician..one that I know personally to be a HUGE advocate for children from birth onward...for an opinion on this issue, and she said she thought it was INSANE to remove a child from the parents on the basis of ANY name.

If there was other abuse than the name...that's a separate issue...a separate point of discussion.  Sticking only to this issue of the name "Adolph Hitler," at what point does the parent's right to name their own child end?  What's the limit?  Who decides...and if other than the parent, then...well, what right does the parent actually have?

(Another aside...it's ONLY because I respect, and admire, you guys that I am engaging in this discussion with you at all...I hope you understand that).

Again, I agree with you on principle. Adolf Hitler simply crosses the line. I think it is possible to cross certain lines. Adolf by itself is a name. Combined with Hitler it becomes a monster. Historical perspective have given us that much. I'm simply saying that there are some things you don't do.

And as Mofo pointed out, we don't know that this is simply over a name. There is no clear indication in that article or any others I've found about this news item. We're not supposed to know. It's a sensational story and we don't know everything.

All I'm saying is that naming a child Adolf Hitler can be considered as abuse. You don't think so, and that's your opinion. I'm saying it's up for consideration.
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« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2011, 10:47:26 AM »

While I agree that parents have the right to name their children, I think Flick makes a valid point about some names throwing up a red flag. Naming a kid Adolf Hitler strongly associates the parents with certain extreme beliefs, organizations and activities that might be cause for legitimate concern. It's also suggests a great deal about the parents' personalities and attitudes. I certainly think it's appropriate to investigate for physical or psychological abuse based on that, and irresponsible to do otherwise. If all that is going on is some unconventional naming and maybe a few wacky political views, there are no grounds for further action. But if there is abuse going on, then children should be protected.

I'm inclined to believe that's what happened in this case. The name set off alarm bells, the family was investigated, and there was indeed more going on. In a sense, you could say the kid was removed because of the name, because that was what set events in motion, but it was not the reason in itself. Of course, nobody is going to discuss the details with the press, and it wouldn't make such a sensational story anyway. We get a few facts, twisted in the most interesting way.
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