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October 30, 2014, 07:58:56 AM
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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Favorie US President « previous next »
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Author Topic: Favorie US President  (Read 1939 times)
indianasmith
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« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2012, 02:06:21 PM »

Kennedy's personal shortcomings will probably keep him off my top list for all time, but he did have the power to inspire people - and he died at the perfect time to become an icon.

By the way, have you read 11/22/63 by Stephen King?  It's a great "what if" story.

Incidentally, I wasn't really trying to trash Lester.  It's just that he and I had a very lengthy exchange on this very topic when I started a similar thread a couple of years back.  He essentially seems to dislike the Presidency itself - or at least, the direction it has taken since, say, 1789 or so.  I don't think I misrepresented his position by much, if at all!

RC - thanks for starting this thread.  It's FUN!
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« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2012, 02:32:03 PM »

Indi- there were other communist governments around the world that had either fallen earlier or fell later. the point is when people embrace those kinds of policies they fail.  I sometimes wonder if the USSR could have made it a little longer if they zigged instead of zagged. like if they had avoided going into Afghanistan for example.  


I will say this though re: the presidency: Reagan-Bush 1- and Clinton were all by and large self made men with a fair amount of common sense and practical thinking. The liberals didn't like Reagan, the conservatives definately didn't like Clinton and no one remembers much of Bush 1 but they did a fairly good job of running things based on

1. no prolonged military conflicts

2. no massive regulation or weird corporatized "deregulation" that messed up the economy and
3. didn't do weird spying on Americans and stuff like that.

relative to the years before and after them especially they were excellent leaders.  
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 02:38:33 PM by lester1/2jr » Logged

Flick James
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« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2012, 02:32:44 PM »

Quote
By the way, have you read 11/22/63 by Stephen King?  It's a great "what if" story.

The book is sitting at home, but I haven't had the chance to crack it yet.
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Flick James
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« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2012, 02:58:42 PM »

Quote
I wondered when Lester was going to chime in with his usual "I love America but hate our government" shtick!

Indy. You can try and trivialize lester's views by calling it "shtick" if you like. I happen to agree with him on some fundamental levels. I think his last post on this thread was pretty mature and valid.

As for Reagan, to me he was an outstanding figurehead. I will never be able to reconcile, however, some of the corporatist practices his administrations ushered in. The S & L debacle was a travesty that, in my opinion, does not get nearly enough attention as the enormous mistake, and example of corporatist corruption, that it was. As for Reaganomics, it's not difficult to take credit for an economic upturn that was following a horrible recession. The economy had nowhere to go but up. Reaganomics helped stimulate some things, but how much credit can you give to him for a recovery that was a natural part of the boom/bust cycle? He also gets credit as a "deregulation" president. Some of the deregulation he gets credit for was either already underway or had already happened prior to his first administration, by the dreaded Jimmy Carter, no less.

Reagan was a great figurehead. I still have major problems with some aspects of his two terms, however.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 03:01:03 PM by Flick James » Logged

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Raffine
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« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2012, 03:30:42 PM »

Small | Large
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« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2012, 03:54:33 PM »



Yer joking,right?

I like the reforms he made,but damn. He couldn-t keep his d**k in his pants. I hate people like that. He lied to his own wife.He don't lie to YOU? Damn.
Yeh, and I wonder how many powerful men haven't kept their d**ks in their pants and lied to their wives.

 


Touche!
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indianasmith
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« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2012, 05:06:55 PM »

Flick, Lester and I have been butting heads on here for YEARS over this topic.  I like teasing him, but  we have developed some respect for each other over time.  I was jerking his chain and I hope he (and you) know that.

I don't agree with your views (or his) when it comes to isolationism versus interventionism, or support of Israel, but I do understand where both of you are coming from.

No offense was intended, and I hope none taken.

I do have a problem with the description of Reagan as a "figurehead," though.  I think he was far smarter and tougher than most people realize, and that title makes him sound like a puppet.

While I do believe that big corporations need a certain amount of watching, I have said many times over - given a choice between trusting big government or big business, I will take big business every single time.  They just want my money; big government takes away my freedom.
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« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2012, 08:36:16 PM »

I wondered when Lester was going to chime in with his usual "I love America but hate our government" shtick!

Think about this - if the Soviet Empire was gonna crumble anyway, why didn't it do so when Carter, or Ford, or Johnson was in office?

Think back to 1979 - the Soviets were large and in charge and America was on the decline. Ten years later they were bankrupt and their evil, repressive system was falling apart!  What happened?

REAGAN!!!!!

and here I was taught that it was this guy:

so was I taught the wrong history? Hatred

my fav. president is:
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yeah no.
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« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2012, 08:48:01 PM »

I have kind of a different view of history.  I see artists and entrepenours and people like that as the heroes and politcians as parasites. I'm not impressed with people throwing around great amounts of coercive power and don't think it's interesting.
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HappyGilmore
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« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2012, 09:31:43 PM »

Kennedy
Lincoln
Clinton

I like these three.
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« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2012, 09:33:16 PM »

1. George Washington

Close Second, for a WHOLE HEAP of reasons...


Theodore Rooseveldt.

In our lifetimes...Reagan hands down.

I remember the Vietnam era and the legacy...Nixon, Ford, Carter.  I remember how things changed when Reagan was elected.

And. It. Was. Good.

For EVERYBODY in this country.  

Reagan did not do this single handed, but our poor are far wealthier than most of the rest of the world's population.  That simple fact cannot be discounted, and a good deal of that wealth was created during the 80's.

No one can deny that the US was better after Reagan than we were before he took office.  I do find it interesting in many such discussions I've heard and read in recent years that most of the people speaking out against Reagan were not even alive during the 70's and 80's.

And while I don't particularly like him or admire him across the board, I will always hold something of respect for Truman for presiding during a very tough time...and making some VERY tough decisions.
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indianasmith
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A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2012, 10:00:56 PM »

Truman is one of these people whom I might have disagreed with politically, but I held a ton of respect for nonetheless because of his inherent honesty and decency.  He never forgot his Midwest roots, and he was not one to lie or manipulate people.  America is very, very fortunate that he stepped into office at the end of World War II.

BTW, El Toro - I was around for the entire decade of the 1980's, and spent four years of it in the Pacific playing naval tag with the Soviets.  Had it not been for Reagan, I think there is a very good chance Gorbachev would never have come to power.  He does deserve credit for recognizing the writing on the wall, as far as the Soviet empire was concerned - but some of the handwriting there was Reagan's.  His "Second Cold War" brought the Soviets to their knees because they could not keep up with the production of a newly motivated and revitalized America.

I highly recommend a book called THE CRUSADER: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism.  Reagan's hatred of the communist system wasn't a political position he took to win elections.  It came from his heart, and it started long before he entered politics.  Whether you love or despise the Gipper, the book is well researched and very readable.
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« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2012, 10:10:22 PM »

JFK

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« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2012, 10:23:23 PM »

I have to go with Reagan.  Not only for his historic changes (like pressing for the fall of the Berlin Wall) but because of the way the economy thrived in the better part of the '80s.  Those days are long gone now.. :(
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Flick James
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« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2012, 02:07:47 AM »

Quote
I do have a problem with the description of Reagan as a "figurehead," though.  I think he was far smarter and tougher than most people realize, and that title makes him sound like a puppet.

While I do believe that big corporations need a certain amount of watching, I have said many times over - given a choice between trusting big government or big business, I will take big business every single time.  They just want my money; big government takes away my freedom.

Figurehead can be taken as a negative if you want to, but I did not mean it that way. Henry Ford was a figurehead during the tale end of his life. That doesn't mean his presence wasn't meaningful or resilient.

Perhaps you don't know what I'm getting at about corporatism. Corporatism is nearly the antithesis of deregulated capitalism. I'm not blaming business for the S & L scandal. I'm blaming the policy set in place by Reagan that allowed investors to protect their investments with government trusts, THE TAXPAYERS MONEY, allowing them to make any investment they chose, no matter how risky, with no consequences. How in the hell is THAT capitalism? That is what corporatism: business and government in bed together, forming a corrupt bond that is detrimental to the mechanisms of capitalism.

And, of course, my main point I still stand by. Again, I ask, how much credit for the recovery do you give to Reagan? I say he was partially, if not mostly, there to take credit for something that was happening anyway. How much credit do you give to him for deregulation that was already happening before he took office? I'm not faulting you for admiring Reagan, he was a man to be admired. So was Kennedy. I still don't approve of many of the decisions of either.

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