Batman v Superman - Dawn of Justice (2016)

[Archivist]

Last night, I went to an opening night screening of Batman Vs. Superman, Dawn of Justice.  It wasn't immediately apparent where to put this topic as it's a movie that will probably divide opinion considerably, so I'm erring on the side of caution and putting it here.

It's big and loud.  it's gorgeously shot.  It's full of CGI fights and some very cool concepts.  There is an air of gloom and brutality about this movie which I have never seen in a comic-book adaptation, which makes it less suitable for children than Deadpool - after all, Deadpool is gory and sexy and FUN, but BvS takes itself very seriously.  There is very little overt humour to break things up, which I think is important in a comic-book movie.

If you've watched the trailers, you may have been puzzled by some scenes.  Some are dream sequences, some are not, and in the movie it is sometimes ambiguous as to which is which, until the dream is revealed.

I'm quite iffy about the scripting and pacing, though.  I kept feeling like it should 'take off' at some point, but it didn't.  There's an underlying sense of 'it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen', but it never quite happens until near the end.

Ben Affleck is surprisingly good as Bruce Wayne.  And yes, he was jacked for this role.  There's a training sequence which reminds me of the deadlifting scene from the Batman: Venom storyline. 

Henry Caviil's role is even more straight than in Man of Steel.  This characterization makes him a very idealistic, bordering on naive person who is still growing into his potential roles.  Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor has a really manic, hyper energy that didn't really work for me, although it might for others.  Wonder Woman gets a surprisingly prominent role, too.  The rest of the characters are relegated to much lesser roles, with Supes and the Bat taking precedence.

Much is made of the fact that Batman has been in operation for many years.  There are a lot of events implied in Bruce Wayne's history which will hopefully be touched upon in upcoming movies, and the relationship/history between Bruce Wayne and Alfred is begging for expansion.

It was difficult for me to watch BvS without comparing it with Christopher Nolan's movies, which I utterly adore.  Nolan makes very classical style movies, whereas Zack Snyder essentially makes cinematic music videos.  And as with all superhero movies, they are the repeated telling of what have become folk legends, and I find myself looking at how they tell each part of a well known story.  We know that Bruce Wayne's parents were killed by a mugger, we know that Peter Parker is bitten by a radioactive spider, so I'm literally waiting for those events to be over so that the 'new' story can be told.

The movie ends in a way that I was not expecting.  That's all I'm going to say.

Is this a Good Movie or a Bad Movie?  It's both.  Huge action and scope but pretty shallow scripting.  Worth seeing in the cinema?  Yeah, why not?  It's big and crazy and has scenes that really work well in a cinema, and while it is bleak, it is also exciting.

[javakoala]

If someone other than Zach Snyder had directed it, I'd be excited to watch it.

I'll wait for it to be on Netflix or Hulu.

[Flangepart]

If someone other than Zach Snyder had directed it, I'd be excited to watch it.

I'll wait for it to be on Netflix or Hulu.

E-yeah...wonder if anyone will make a list of time code, so we can just skip to the action scenes.

[akiratubo]

AWFUL.  I walked out on it,  no joke.   What I saw was just a random assortment of painfully boring scenes that didn't relate to each other in any meaningful way.

It is worse than all three Nolan Batman Movies put together.   If you've ever read any of my comments here about those,  you'll know that's really saying something.

If you feel you must see it,  wait until it's free on your streaming service of choice.   DON'T pay money to see it.

[javakoala]

AWFUL.  I walked out on it,  no joke.   What I saw was just a random assortment of painfully boring scenes that didn't relate to each other in any meaningful way.

Welcome to the films of Zach Snyder. Flash with nothing behind it. I think I've said it before, but he should consider doing the world a favor and follow in the final footsteps of another annoying director, Tony Scott.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm a jerk. I'll just show myself out.

[indianasmith]

My daughter and her boyfriend went to see it last night and both loved it.
I think my wife and I will take it in tonight.

[WingedSerpent]

This movie had a lot of flaws.  I won't deny that.  But....I didn't find any of them to be real deal breakers for me and I actually enjoyed this movie. 

One of the things I liked was how this movie handled the world's reaction to Superman.  That felt real to me.  People thinking he's a devil, or a god, or just freaked out by confirmation that aliens exist.  Also, the government essentially trying to reign in his power. 

Also, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman.  She handled the role very well in my opinion, and I want to see the actual Wonder Woman movie now.  I do wish her costume had a bit more color to it, because it still looked a little too muddy for my tastes. 

Visually, I thought the movie was good.  I liked the inside of the kryptonian ship, I liked the bio-organic section had a decently creepy vibe to it.  Some of the imagery during the dream sequences was disturbing and I would believe Batman would probably have nightmares like the ones he did.

Which leads me to Ben Affleck as Bruce/Batman.  I liked it for what it was, but what it was didn't fit with the movie or what direction they might want to take this franchise.  Its sort of an older version of the Tim Burton Batman mixed with the DKR Batman.  However, it was also one of-if not the biggest thing I didn't like about this movie.  This version of Batman is WAY too callous when it comes to human life.  He murders several people throughout the film. Its almost to Punisher levels.   This is a Batman who wouldn't have let the Joker or any of his other costume enemies live (which seems to point more to the fan theory that the Suicide Squad Joker is actually Jason Todd.) It made him seem a tad bit hypocritical complaining about the damage and death the Superman/Zod fight at the end of MOS, when he's causing plenty of collateral damage and death.  Yeah, I know it seemed he was only killing villains, but an innocent bystander getting hurt in the crossfire did not seem like it was out of the realm of possibility.   

But again-I didn't hate Ben Affleck as Batman-just this particular portray of the character.  It might have worked in another film series, but it had some problems fitting in here.  At least for me. 

Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor never really worked for me either.  His quirky young tech billionaire was always just on this side of annoying more that scary.  I thought some of his motivation was interesting.  His defeating of Superman would almost be kind of a religious experience for him.  Showing the world that man does not need gods. 

But Henry Cavill seems to be growing into his role as Clark/ Superman.  I really preferred his performance in this movie more than I did in MOS.  (mild spoiler): There's a scene where Doomsday is unleashed and it looks like he's about to kill Luthor-and Superman still saves him.  That is a Superman thing to do.  Or when Superman rushes away from a party to save a little girl in another country.   

And that ending....


For better or worse, this is the DC cinematic universe.  And I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes.  If I only didn't have to wait until 2020 for my Green Lantern Corps movie.

 

[indianasmith]

I have to be honest:  I loved the movie.  It was well-paced, perfectly cast, and solidly entertaining.  I especially loved Jessie Eisenberg as Lex Luthor.  He was a great villain, IMO.  I'd definitely watch it again.

[clockworkcanary]

Greetings, all. Spoiler-esque post here.

There were a few flaws, of course, but overall, I had a good time with this film. Being a major Batman fan, I've long ago accepted the various interpretations of his character ...and was glad to see something different (or at least a version I hadn't seen for awhile). He had elements of his original incarnation and elements from The Dark Knight Returns. I didn't mind that this version was a bit more harsh, this time. He's supposed to be older and a bit more ruthless, however that was a bit confusing since he seemed less wise than his younger counter part (getting played/manipulated as he did) -World's not-so-greatest detective. And mostly, I didn't care for his motivation for what he was doing the majority of the movie. But, in my mind, this is the Batfleck version of the character, so it's all good.

I think what affected the flow of the movie is that they were merging the story archs from Dark Knight Returns, Superman Doomsday, and sprinklings of others, which just makes things feel crammed together. I am glad they left some of the more political aspects of the former (I mean, yes this movie did involve politics (it's even mentioned) but it wasn't so specific as the comic). I think, even with this disjointedness or contrived aspects, it was still pretty entertaining.

Supes was a good portrayal; I think he needed to smile once or twice more and be a little bit more of the bright light. I was not a fan of Lex being a faux-Joker frat boy mix. I get that he's supposed to represent the over privileged rich brat, but I didn't care for the mid-90s Jim Carry flamboyance; the Luthor I've always liked best was the calm, calculating, ruthless capitalist/scientist ...not this seemingly chaos-driven Lex (although, he could morph into that over the next few movies). I did like Mercy's presence, though.

Wonder Woman was epic...I got goosebumps when her music hit and to see her kick ass with her sword and shield made me giddy. #@#~. Yes. She's one the best melee weapon user in DC comics and it was great to see it on screen. I like that we didn't get her origin story, for a change; I also like that she just appears throughout wars from time to time throughout History. I look forward to more.

I loved the Easter Eggs, obvious and subtle ones. Loved the Aquaman and Cyborg shots; thought the Flash clip was weak; and still can't figure out who the 'messenger' character was or his/her motivation. The parademons in the dream where an obvious reference, and then there's the shot of the Mother Box. During my second viewing (yes, I took the step daughter the day after I initially watched it because she "had" to see it too, heh), I noticed a huge Omega symbol carved into the desert floor during the dream sequence that I had missed before; I think I was the only one in the packed theater that yelled "Awwwww Yeah" when it appeared. Then there's Luthor's talk at the end -information he likely learned from the archives in the Kryptonian ship (which was awesome) foreshadowing the arrival of the New God, who's presence will likely undo the ending of this film.

All Hail The Mighty Darkseid!


Overall this has me excited for Justice League. This movie was fun.

[VenomX73]

I was going to go see it today but I called 1st, the lady said it was packed to the door, just like StarWars 7.

So, I'll wait.

[Jim H]

It was bad, but not excruciating.  Some VERY poor scripting, shockingly so at times, borderline incoherent.  A few good ideas badly executed, like the initial way Batman and Superman are heading to conflict is interesting and then the final straw is super uninspired.  Dull and humorless.  It has less humor than the Nolan films, and that's impressive.

Terrible character motivations...  I challenge anyone to describe Luthor's motivations in a sensible way.  Waaaay too long.  The first hour is a waste of time. 

It's well shot and mostly well acted.  I think Affleck and Cavill are both good, Jeremy Irons is quite good as well.  Wonder Woman is pretty cool.  Some of the action scenes are good - I liked seeing Batman cut loose late in the movie.  Good designs.

I'd give it a 4/10.

[BoyScoutKevin]

Interesting thread, as usual.
Though, what interests me is not the film, though, I do wish it well.
What interests me is the . . .
us vs. 'em or
DC vs. Marvel
and my response.
(Sorry about the last part.)

They both have films coming out this year.
DC with "Batman vs Superman," which is out now.
Marvel with "Captain America : Civil War," which
could be called "Captain America vs. Ironman."
Which should be out sometime this summer
And it'll be interesting to see which one does better at the box office.
Though, unlike last year, when "Jurassic World" took the prize for the summer's top grosser.
This year, as previously, it is believed Marvel will have summer's top grosser.
So, DC has its work cut out for it.

Both have their TV networks.

What DC does not have is its cruise ships
and its theme parks. Though, Superman
has come or will come to 6 Flags, or so I have heard.

And I'll have to watch the toy world and the publishing industry to see if anything pops up in those.

As for myself . . .
'50s TV DC
'60s TV DC
'70s films DC
'80s to
00s hiatus.
'10s Marvel.
And I stuck with it since then, having no interest in DC, since I switched over to Marvel.

With one exception and that being the comics greatest villain or DC's Lex Luthor, who I have never found accurately portrayed on film, and the latest, from what I have heard, is no exception.

I can also say I have found DC's Alfred to have become more interesting. I don't have any idea whether he's ever been portrayed accurately or not, but . . .?! I have come to think of him as the rugged rock around which all the ragged rascals run.

And while I do now prefer Marvel to DC, I do think DC has made better use of its teen heroes. Though, with a teenage Spiderman appearing in "Captain America : Civil War," we'll see whether that changes and Marvel's teen heroes and heroines get their time to shine.

And we will see what we will see.

[Jim H]

Since you sound like you're not as familiar with it...  DC has pretty much always had better animation, going back over 20 years now (well, in the modern era, early stuff Superman Fleisher shorts are great too).  Batman: The Animated Series and its followup in the same continuity (especially Justice League) are terrific, better than any Marvel animated properties by far.  Since that ended, DC has also had a number of good animated TV movies, like the pretty recent Flash Point Paradox.  Young Justice was good.  Even Batman: The Brave and the Bold is pretty solid.  

They all feel a lot more like the comics than Man of Steel and BvS, and are far better for it.

[alandhopewell]

     I'd looked forward to this movie, planned on going to see it soon, until I heard a rumor about one of the characters, which I confirmed....

     Batman kills, deliberately, repeatedly.

     I've enjoyed the exploits of fictional characters who used lethal force, from the Spider of the pulp era to the Spectre to Mack Bolan, the Executioner, and had no problem with it-heck, I'm working on a (something) that features super-powered vigilantes who occasionally kill bad guys. Also, the Dark Knight DID use deadly force in his beginnings. However, for most of his fictional career, Batman did not kill,  not even psychodemonic monsters like the Joker, and even gave his reasons for not killing, more than once, to wit....

     "IF I TAKE LIFE, I CROSS A LINE I CAN NEVER CROSS BACK OVER."

     The only reason I can see for this change in Batman's behavior is the studio's desire to feed the dripping, purient, bloodthirsty maw that is many current filmgoers; it's the same whorishness that caused Superman to knock up Lois Lane and flee the planet, and turned Lt. Uhura into a slut.

     My wife and I will not see this film, we will not buy or rent it, not even for a buck.
Thanks a lot, DC.

[akiratubo]

     I'd looked forward to this movie, planned on going to see it soon, until I heard a rumor about one of the characters, which I confirmed....

     Batman kills, deliberately, repeatedly.

*spoilers*

He goes out of his way to kill.  He even drags a car full of people he killed behind the Batmobile for about half a mile just so he can use the car as a weapon to kill another car full of bad guys.  ("Bad guys" being Lexcorp security guards ... who are guarding a shipment of Lex Luthor's that Batman wants to steal.)  He kills an innocent truck driver by causing a bad guy vehicle to wreck into the truck.  He fails to capture the shipment during the car chase (I won't get into why), so he goes directly to Lexcorp headquarters where, going by the amount of damage to the place and the billions of spent bullet casings laying around, he presumably murders EVEN MORE guards on his way to steal what he wants from Lex.

If that's not enough for you, he carries around brass knuckles with the Bat-symbol on them that he heats with a blowtorch and uses to BRAND bad guys.

This movie is s**t.