GOD

[indianasmith]

I cannot imagine how sad it must be to have nothing higher than human nature to believe in.
Seriously - I remember Dennis Prager (an observant Jew) having this conversation with an atheist Jew on the radio once:
Caller:  "I lost faith in God because of the Holocaust."
Prager: "Did you gain faith in humanity because of the Holocaust?"

Let's be honest:  if we are all there is, the world is screwed.

[Derf]

I think religion in general is for the weak to be honest. Atheists unite!

I understand the idea behind this sentiment, but it doesn't really work that way. Throughout history, religious people have been persecuted (yes, often by other religious people) and martyred for their beliefs without caving to the persecutors. In the early days of Christianity,  most of the original apostles were martyred in horrible ways, and yet not one of them recanted his assertion that Jesus was dead and rose again, conquering death in the process. If they were weak, I would love to see a strong person. The same can be said of members of other religions as well. Of course their are weak people that seek solace in religion, just as there are weak people who cannot muster the strength to admit God's existence.  To generalize to that degree does no justice to anyone. If this comes across harshly, and I see how it might, it is not the way I intended. I just wanted to add my two cents worth.

For the record, yes I know that God exists.

[ER]

Good points, Derf. I think it is interesting that the apostles went so quickly from frightened self-preserving sorts who fled when Jesus was arrested, denied in at least one case they even knew who Jesus was, to men willing to die for their cause. I find that telling. Clearly something changed their minds and granted them the strength of newfound convictions. Their profound rebirth of faith is one the many points of evidence that Jesus came back from the dead, exactly as claimed in the historical records.

[Jim H]

I cannot imagine how sad it must be to have nothing higher than human nature to believe in.

That comes across quite condescending, deliberate or not. 

Let's be honest:  if we are all there is, the world is screwed.

Why?  The human world is better off in most ways than at any other point in around 5000 years of human history. 

Their profound rebirth of faith is one the many points of evidence that Jesus came back from the dead, exactly as claimed in the historical records.

Jesus also had a supposed younger brother who thousands died fighting for, earnestly believing this.  He arose from nothing and amassed a great many followers.  There's a heck of a lot of historical record to back this up too.  Yet I doubt you'd consider this man a legitimate expansion on Christianity.  From a a non-believer's perspective, I find the evidence for the younger brother's existence and fate of his followers much more compelling than that of Jesus and his apostles, and I don't doubt the legitimacy of the beliefs of the man or most of his worshipers; needless to say though, I'm unlikely to convert to either version. 

[ER]

I cannot imagine how sad it must be to have nothing higher than human nature to believe in.

That comes across quite condescending, deliberate or not. 

Let's be honest:  if we are all there is, the world is screwed.

Why?  The human world is better off in most ways than at any other point in around 5000 years of human history. 

Their profound rebirth of faith is one the many points of evidence that Jesus came back from the dead, exactly as claimed in the historical records.

Jesus also had a supposed younger brother who thousands died fighting for, earnestly believing this.  He arose from nothing and amassed a great many followers.  There's a heck of a lot of historical record to back this up too.  Yet I doubt you'd consider this man a legitimate expansion on Christianity.  From a a non-believer's perspective, I find the evidence for the younger brother's existence and fate of his followers much more compelling than that of Jesus and his apostles, and I don't doubt the legitimacy of the beliefs of the man or most of his worshipers; needless to say though, I'm unlikely to convert to either version. 

Citation on the brother, please, Jim?

[indianasmith]

"Jesus also had a supposed younger brother who thousands died fighting for, earnestly believing this.  He arose from nothing and amassed a great many followers.  There's a heck of a lot of historical record to back this up too.  Yet I doubt you'd consider this man a legitimate expansion on Christianity.  From a a non-believer's perspective, I find the evidence for the younger brother's existence and fate of his followers much more compelling than that of Jesus and his apostles, and I don't doubt the legitimacy of the beliefs of the man or most of his worshipers; needless to say though, I'm unlikely to convert to either version." 

I've spent most of my life researching the origins of Christianity and never found a shred of evidence for this, Jesus' brother James was the leader of the Jerusalem Church and was killed during the first phase of the Jewish revolt in 64 AD.  He authored the Biblical book of James and was known as a man of prayer and faith - but he also said that Jesus was the Son of God and never tried to start a rival movement, much less a military one.  According to one account, he was murdered by the Pharisees for denouncing military revolt against Rome.  But he was never worshipped or had 'thousands die fighting for' him that I ever heard of.  Got a source for that?

[Jim H]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Xiuquan

His movement led to the second most lethal war in human history.

[indianasmith]

Living 1800 years later, there is no way this man was a brother of Jesus any more than David Korsh was His "reincarnation."  Just another revolutionary cashing in on the name.

[RCMerchant]

To quote a fellow who shares my birthday-

"All I say is that I think it is damned unlikely that anything like a central cosmic will, a spirit world, or an eternal survival of personality exist. They are the most preposterous and unjustified of all the guesses which can be made about the universe, and I am not enough of a hairsplitter to pretend that I don't regard them as arrant and negligible moonshine. In theory, I am an agnostic, but pending the appearance of radical evidence I must be classed, practically and provisionally, as an atheist."

-H.P.Lovecraft

He uses some nice long flowing sentences-befitting a writer-to say: "It's bulls**t!"

[Jim H]

Living 1800 years later, there is no way this man was a brother of Jesus any more than David Korsh was His "reincarnation."  Just another revolutionary cashing in on the name.

Why not? The Father is still alive, right? If he can have one son, in whatever incarnation, he can have another. I am aware of the gospel issues with that, but it's easy to hand wave it away just like other spinoff religions do - and as the church itself did with books they didn't accept as canon.

My point isn't that I actually believe this story, just that if converting non-believers to die for you is evidence, Hong certainly has the same thing going for him - as does Koresh. And Mohammed. Brigham Young for that matter. There's also much better historical evidence of the fates of these followers than the Apostles. Li Hongzhi for that matter - he's still alive, had a sudden strong rebirth of practitioners, and people are currently dying for the religous practices he partly created.  

Alright, I'm being a bit belligerent, but if people are going to argue for a specific faith in specific ways on an open thread like this, I feel it's invited.

[RCMerchant]

Living 1800 years later, there is no way this man was a brother of Jesus any more than David Korsh was His "reincarnation."  Just another revolutionary cashing in on the name.

Why not? The Father is still alive, right? If he can have one son, in whatever incarnation, he can have another. I am aware of the gospel issues with that, but it's easy to hand wave it away just like other spinoff religions do - and as the church itself did with books they didn't accept as canon.

My point isn't that I actually believe this story, just that if converting non-believers to die for you is evidence, Hong certainly has the same thing going for him - as does Koresh. And Mohammed. Brigham Young for that matter. There's also much better historical evidence of the fates of these followers than the Apostles. Li Hongzhi for that matter - he's still alive, had a sudden strong rebirth of practitioners, and people are currently dying for the religous practices he partly created.  

Alright, I'm being a bit belligerent, but if people are going to argue for a specific faith in specific ways on an open thread like this, I feel it's invited.

Actually what you're saying is even steven. If I am expected to believe all this fantastic stuff-Christ rising from the grave-a giant invisible enity who KNOWS ALL-(but really does nothing)-its not so far fetched.
I aint against religion-it's a superstition invented by man to help us cope with things we can't figure out.
I'm against trying to force it onto folks-by bloodshed! It's more dividing the people on your God's green earth than uniting it.

[HappyGilmore]

I would garner to say I'm anti-Religion only in the aspect that it's led to more senseless violence in the names of beings we can't even see.  The Crusades, countless wars, etc.  ISIS/Muslims, whomever, and the dozens of videos where they're beheading people.

There's no Atheist who's beheaded someone, on camera, while shouting "All praise to NOTHING." 

That's another issue entirely, I suppose.

[RCMerchant]

If anything-my starting posts about religion and politics has done the thing I wanted to-it gave some life to this dying board.  
Cuz I really love this board-and it was getting mundane.

Oh yeah-my new avatar is Bela as Christ giving the world an eyeroll. 
Cuz if ya cant deal with this big ball of mud without a sense of humor-

[HappyGilmore]

Ten Commandments--George Carlin.

http://youtu.be/CE8ooMBIyC8
	Small | Large

[RCMerchant]

Ok-I aint an atheist-Carlin is my Jesus.
Yea-though I walk through the valley of morons,I will not be afraid-because-well-I'm dealing with morons.