Humanizing evil?

[Svengoolie 3]

I saw this article about "the downfall".  Here's a quote.

terrible people. Downfall follows the final days of Hitler’s life before he kills himself to avoid capture.

Downfall proved controversial for obvious reasons. German newspaper The Bild asked “Are we allowed to show the monster as a human being?” Others have praised the bravery of the film for daring to show Hitler’s humanity and his vulnerability as his evil empire crumbles around him.

It is a tough pill to swallow (no pun intended), but when it comes to any real life atrocities, we have to come to terms with the fact that it is always humans, not monsters, that commit them. Not only was Hitler a real human, he was a charismatic leader of an entire nation.

He managed to convince a nation to despise its minorities to such an extent that it led to mass genocide. He was politics taken to its most unimaginably awful and evil. And all the while he was a human appealing to other humans. This is what is so scary about Hitler, and so scary about the current state of world politics. Downfall is not trying to sweeten the pill (no pun intended) when portraying Hitler. By humanising him it warns us of the dangers of demagoguery."


How do yiu feel about movies humanzing evil peolle? 

Some peolle are dead set against it. Jack "Joe Friday" Webb hated the "criminal mystique" and made it his mission to portray criminals mostly,  but not always,  just mostly,  as scum,  born losers,  deadbeats, etc.

Clint Eastwood rather hypocritically portrayed crimals as mostly worthless filth to be locked up or killed without remorse.  In his movie "Dirty Harry" he didn't even allow the psycho killer to be humanized by giving him a name.  Eastwood played a criminal in several movies tho,  and always portrayed his criminals as human beings.  Talk about a .44 magnum caliber hypocrite...

Other film makers and tv producers portray criminals of all types as human beings with flaws and vulnerabilities who we're children,  had parents,  dreams, hopes,  fears and demons just like all of us do.

"In cold blood" did this,  so did a lot of film noir like one of my fsvoritesz "the asphalt jungle".

Then you  have incredibly evil peolle who are just beyond  criminals,  beyond  murderers, like hitler, or Stalin.

How do you  feel about portraying undeniably evil people  as human?  Is it "excusing" or "glorifying" them?  Is it just showing us that evil people are human too? 

Do you have any favorite  examples of evil peolle being portrayed as human? 

[Rev. Powell]

Philosophically speaking, I've always held that people aren't evil. Acts are evil. Hitler was not evil incarnate, he was a man who did evil things.

The best literary example of humanizing evil is the novel "Lolita," about a child molester. I've never seen Kubrick's movie version. I think I love the novel so much I don't believe even Kubrick could capture its spirit.

A CLOCKWORK ORANGE humanizes Alex somewhat, but it's not at all realistic and isn't intended to be.

Clint Eastwood's UNFORGIVEN is a good example of a very human character who does evil things---and we can understand why.

[Svengoolie 3]

Good examples, rev. In some ways I think ACO was meant to show alex as a product of his environment tho. You should remember when ACO was written england was in an economic morass with huge areas devastated by plant closings, unemployment, hopelessness, despair, etc. The writer was to a large degree commenting on how that world affects the young.

[RCMerchant]

the DEVIL'S REJECTS.
Not really- but parts are dam funny.

[Pacman000]

It's probably important to point out that Hitler and the like were human. We just need to do it in a way which isn't sympathetic.

[Svengoolie 3]

It's probably important to point out that Hitler and the like were human. We just need to do it in a way which isn't sympathetic.

Yes, this.

We need t remember that hitlers and stalins and maos, etc, aren't things that happen. They're people, human beings. There are lots of people as or more evil and murderous than the aforementioned, thankfully most of them never come into power.

[Gabriel Knight]

From a storytelling point of view, it's amazing. Usually the "evil" characters are the most interesting, because most of the times we simply can't understand the reasons behind their actions. From the top of my mind I can mention "The Toothfairy" from Red Dragon, which is an amazing character and you actually feel bad for him at some point, just like the protagonist says.

In the video games world I will always love Jon Irenicus from Baldur's Gate II. Man, that is probably the best villain ever.

[Alex]

Ultimately evil is a human conceit. I doubt even hitler used to wake up in the morning and think "Wow, what an evil bastard I am."

Indeed I suspect he thought quite the opposite. Not recognising all facets of people like him leads us to underestimate them, which is one of the elements that leads to similar people rising to power.

[316zombie]

i think that's why i'm dealing with so much fear right now. i'm not used to that...but there are too many people in my country that scare me with their concepts. i'm not saying it right... 

[Alex]

I think I know exactly what you are saying Barri.

[316zombie]

i figured you would, but you know me well, better than many here. 

[Svengoolie 3]

i think that's why i'm dealing with so much fear right now. i'm not used to that...but there are too many people in my country that scare me with their concepts. i'm not saying it right... 

I don't know you but understand your message here completely.

[316zombie]

i realize that this will probably offend you, but i have to say that you, with the hatred you have, are part of that group, sven. i'm sorry, but it needed to be said.