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May 26, 2018, 08:44:07 PM
597656 Posts in 46086 Topics by 6121 Members
Latest Member: SalpetL Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  A Controversial Subject...... « previous next »
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Author Topic: A Controversial Subject......  (Read 8619 times)
Joe Schmo
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2002, 10:16:31 AM »

another thing that bothers me is,the government says that buying drugs funds terrorism. why don't we just do like they do and send them billions of dollars,weapons and visas so they can come over here and take flying lessons. we are also still buying oil from saddam hussein. atta was on a "terrorist watch list" while he was taking flight lessons,I guess that means they watched him go in and out of the country for years then watched him fly a plane into the world trade center. I can't believe that some people think the government is doing everything they can to prevent terrorism.
Future Blob
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2002, 11:28:16 AM »

 Just a few thoughts:

 1) About the Middle Eastern situation, I think that the Jewish people are like an abused child in some respects. They've taken so much crap that now they're in a position of power, they're not sure what to do and so may be acting with uneeded brutality. This doesn't mean that I condone the terrorist attacks they've suffered, I'm just offering a reason for some of their behavior.

2) President Bush. I personally don't care for him and think that he's not the best person for the job, I think he's done a good job keeping things together but I can't help but suspect that the 9/11 attacks caused him to breathe a (tiny) sigh of relief in some respects in that they made the media back off. Perhaps he just wants to keep the popularity wartime ball rolling with this Iraq situation. That's all just an idea of mine, no solid evidence, and I'm not saying he approved of the attack.

3) Iraq: I won't deny that their a dangerous regime that needs to be taken care of, but you can't just say that their making weapons without proof and then go to war. I'm all in favor of assassinating him, but you better have someone good to take over or nothing will change. Same thing with bin laden, cutting a head off of the hydra won't help. Terrorism is here to stay and there's no real conclusive way to stop it.
Chris K.
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2002, 11:39:11 AM »

J.R. wrote:
> And I'm getting tired of Europe's
> attitude. "Oh, let's just forget America saved our
> weird-smelling (ever notice people from foreign countries
> smell weird?) butts in WW1 and 2, and make it our perogative
> to be pricks whenever they want to do anything!".

Just to point a few things out:

We didn't exactly save Europe's ass during WW1. More or less, we became involved when it had virtually nothing to do with us. France and Britian were kicking Germany's ass pretty hard and the US didn't become involved until the Lusitania was sunk by a German sub (Now you might ask, how did we become involved when the Lusitania was a British ship. The ship apparently had some American passengers and therefore president Woodrow Wilson felt it was time to go at war, while using the excuse "We have to make the world safe for Democracy" even though Democracy was not the issue or in danger!).

Also, France was a major part of the victory when they fought alongside the collonists during the Revolutionary War. Looks like one European country had to save our butts when the USA was in it's infancy.

But I understand how you feel, J.R. I too am tired of the Europen's attitude towards us, but let's face it THEY ARE NOT INVOLVED. It is strictly an American involvement and it will be that way untill some country in Europe is attacked by terrorists and will therefore join with us. Only time will tell.
Luke Bannon
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2002, 11:55:11 AM »

J.R. wrote:
> You haven't lived on our own planet Earth long have you,
> Luke? People are violent and that's that. Watching B-movies
> should have taught you that lesson. :)

I am perfectly aware of violece, though I usually hope that violence can be avoided at all costs because, to quote Mahatma Ghandi: 'Even when it's done in good, the good goes away but the harm it has done is permenant.' And to suggest that because I don't like violence I haven't been living on Earth is nasty. Is it wrong of me to think that violence is wrong? Hmmm? Well I guess that means that the way I've been brought up is wrong then!
Chris K.
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2002, 12:09:36 PM »

>When typing it out I had a feeling that the
> comment about the other countries being cowards would create
> the most controversy.  I agree that that was a harsh term to
> use but look at what I typed about the police.  What would
> you think of a fellow police officer who was it seemed on the
> outside, afraid to take the perp down?  Would you call him or
> her a coward?  I sure as hell would!  Then again I'm a
> realist and I tend to live in the moment (seeing the big
> picture as well) and in the moment of truth in a situation
> like that I tend to be a little harsh.  Most people would be
> too.  I guess it just comes from my "American arrogance" as
> my  Australian girlfriend is so fond of pointing out.  As for
> quoting Bush's statement about being with us or with the
> terrorists, he said it, not me...When it comes to dealing with these worthless
> SUBHUMAN terrorists I think that seeing things simply in
> black and white and as bluntly as possible is the only way to
> go.

If I made it sound like you said Bush's statements about being for us or with the terrorists, my mistake. I was writing my say in the long hours of the night so I should have been more specific. I see your point, but seeing things in black and white isn't gona make the situation the USA is in any easier or understandable. Right now, we are all trying to understand just what the hell is going on. As for the terrorists, somebody said it here on this post that terrorism is still going to be on this mortal world. Ture, for we can exterminate the low-life bastards who attacked us, that doesn't mean others will follow in the terrorists footsteps. What's even scarier is that it could be somebody living here that have plans for a terrorist attack or movement. We don't know, so as I said it's going to be somewhat difficult. As for your example of an officer afraid to take the perp down, would I label him a coward? I might. But then, could the cop have also been afraid and could not take it? That could be it too. So it's not all about cowardice, more close to being afraid. And fear is quite natural, too. We sometimes have to get over it, but their are times when we can't. However, your example was quite good, ASHTHECAT.

>I'm not Jewish but I, and probably all of the rest of you know that the Jews have >been persecuted for hundreds of years. If you need a lesson watch Schindler's >List (which I just finished watching earlier tonight). After all of the s**t Jews have >been through they deserve the state of Israel that they are currently living in. It >just happens to be their misfortune that they are surrounded by most of the arab >world.

Ah, a quick movie recommendation from ASHTHECAT. However, I am not going to watch SCHINDLER'S LIST in order to understand what the Jews have been through during Nazi Germany. Speilbergs film is pompous and pretencious. If I want to understand how the Jews went through it all, I will read countless interviews of the Hollocaust survivors (which I have done) and read more about it in other informative history books. I just can't rely on a film to teach it to me, especially when it's from Speilberg. But thanks for the recommendation. Nonetheless, the Jews so-rightly deserve the state of Israel and it seems they are fighting back at their enemies as best as they can.
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2002, 12:30:49 PM »

Chris K. wrote:
> J.R. wrote:
> >
> > And I'm getting tired of Europe's
> > attitude. "Oh, let's just forget America saved our
> > weird-smelling (ever notice people from foreign countries
> > smell weird?) butts in WW1 and 2, and make it our perogative
> > to be pricks whenever they want to do anything!".
> Just to point a few things out:
> We didn't exactly save Europe's ass during WW1. More or less,
> we became involved when it had virtually nothing to do with
> us. France and Britian were kicking Germany's ass pretty hard
> and the US didn't become involved until the Lusitania was
> sunk by a German sub (Now you might ask, how did we become
> involved when the Lusitania was a British ship. The ship
> apparently had some American passengers and therefore
> president Woodrow Wilson felt it was time to go at war, while
> using the excuse "We have to make the world safe for
> Democracy" even though Democracy was not the issue or in
> danger!).

Actually it was only after the Zimmerman telegraph (when Germany tried to get Mexico to attack us) that Wilson asked Congress for a declaration of war.  The Lusitania was before his re-election, on the slogan "He kept us out of war".

Germany was bleeding France and England pretty hard too.  So much so that the French soldiers actually revolted for brief period.  The US's entry pretty much made Germany realize it was too weak to continue.  Unfortunately that came about a month too late for my great uncle.

I agree with the rest of what you said
Chris K.
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2002, 02:07:13 PM »

The Zimmerman telegraph! Jesus, I knew I forgot one other important aspect of what got us in WW1. Thanks for pointing that one out and some of the other elements that I forgot to add in, raj. Guess it's time for me to hit the books, again.
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2002, 02:34:35 PM »

No problem.  Glad to know my college education wasn't a complete waste.
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2002, 03:23:33 PM »

I don't think JR was saying that your distaste for violence in and of itself is naive or wrong in any way.  I think his point was that if you honestly expect that this will end without further bloodshed, you haven't been paying much attention to the level of malice and derangement that runs deep in the world of Islamic Extremism.  Disliking real live non-movie violence is a normal human feeling that we all share (whether or not we'll admit it here)...  But thinking there is a non-violent answer to all life's problems is wishful thinking (which I grant you is ALSO a normal human feeling).
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2002, 03:34:48 PM »

How much proof of Iraqi weapons production do people f**king need!?!?  

1.  We have over a dozen defectors from Iraq who said they PERSONALLY worked on NBC (nuke-bio-chem) weapons programs.  We have many more who didn't work on the programs but offer evidence of their existance.

2.  We have inspectors who found all that stuff in the early 1990's and we NEVER SAW TO ITS DISMANTLEMENT.  

3.  We have satellite photos that may look blurry to you, but the highly trained experts who look at them for a living say they're pretty good evidence.  



Good grief, how stupid can people be???  I guess this is what we get from our 8 years of a "swell" economy and total disregard for world events under Clinton.
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2002, 03:52:56 PM »

Good points.  And does anyone else remember the summer before Saddam invaded Kuwait, when he went on international tv showing off nuclear triggers he'd gotten somehow?

It would be nice for the Iraqi people if the sanctions were gone, so Iraq could sell oil, buy things, etc.  Bush should play up this angle.  "Look arab world, you don't want us in the land of Mecca, and we don't want to be there either.  Let us pack up and go home, and we'll take Saddam with us.  We've got a half-way ticket for him."
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2002, 05:07:24 PM »

I don't see the need for a big military action against Iraq, just drop in a couple sharpshooters to pick off the psycho when he steps out to get the mroning paper. (ok, I know it's a lot harder than that, but the principle is the same)

 I also agree that it's stupid to not treat middle eastern men differently in the wake of Sept. 11th. It may be unfair to those who haven't done anything wrong, but it's not like we have a big problem with terrorists from other areas besides the middle east.
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

Karma: 639
Posts: 9415

« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2002, 06:05:56 PM »

....Well...its not suprising the response.
....I was tempted to ask the gang about thier reactions to the 9/11 remembrances.But, i was afraid to strike too personal a cord. This whole situation is hard to handle. We each have our opinions on who should do what, but the complexitys are mind numbing.
....Hoo-sane? Not him! The evidence is there. Today, Bush spoke to the Dis-united Nations. And of corse, every one had their spin machines engaged. The Iraqi's B.S.ed, Bush gave the U.N. an in your face "s**t or get off the pot", and the politicions were playing "Vote for me!"
....Any wonder people get buffaloed?
....I see many intresting points here gang. One thing about this site...its never boreing!
....btw, i'll be in old blighty, leaving on 9/18, for some R&R at Grange over Sands, by the English sea side. I'll ask the locals what they think, and try to have a "Man in the street" for ya when i get back. Cherrio, lads!


"Aggressivlly eccentric, and proud of it!"
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2002, 11:57:31 PM »

Click here to read about America's own brand of terrorism

George W. Bush is the spoiled brat son of an ex-spy who didn't deserve anything he got in life. He didn't have the grades to get into his college, he was a boozer, coke-addict and joker at school, failed multiple businesses he was involved in and wasn't even elected!

He's so much of a puppet, I'm surprised no one see the strings. He's surrounded by daddy's (AND REAGAN'S) cronies and THEY are the one's who are making the decisions. Bush & Reagan are no friend to the common man.
And all you guys that are ready to start up a war that could domino into WWIII better read up on FEMA's powers (which was brought up during the Iran/Contra hearings).
If the President declares a National Emergency, then the Constitution is SUSPENDED. This means YOU, Mr. & Mrs. Citizen have NO RIGHTS.

Just some examples:
Executive Order 10995 provides for the takeover of the communications media. (This means phones, radio, tv, and other devices)
Executive Order 10997 provides for the takeover of all electric, power, petroleum, gas, fuels  and minerals.
Executive Order 10988 provides for the takeover of food resources and farms.
Executive Order 10999 provides for the takeover of all modes of transportation, control of highways, seaports, etc. (There goes your car)
Executive Order 11000 provides for the mobilization of all civilians into work brigades under the Government supervision. (People can be forced to work for six months with NO COMPENSATION.)
Executive Order 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
Executive Order 11004 provides for the Housing & Finance Authority to relocate communities, designate areas to be abandoned and establish new locations for populations. (Here families have the potential to be broken up)

Read up on it and don't be so blinded by Patriotism. They've killed off most of the Indians (Native Americans) who were balanced in nature. The evil of men have disrupted that balance but their quest for blood has not been satisfied. But who shall bear the wrath of the Devil? "Those who will not use their brains are no better off than tose who have no brains, and so this mindless school of jellyfish, father, mother, son, and daughter, become useful beasts of burden or trainers of the same."

All I say is don't be deceived by silent weapons for secret wars. (DIVERSION SUMMARY
Media: Keep the adult public attention diverted away from the real social issues, and captivated by matters of no real importance.
Schools: Keep the young public ignorant of real mathematics, real economics, real law and real history.
Entertainment: Keep the public entertainment below a sixth-grade level.
Work: Keep the public busy, busy, busy, with no time to think; back on the farm with the other animals.

"The political has nothing in common with the moral. The ruler who is governed by the moral is not a skilled politician, and is therefore unstable on his throne. He who wishes to rule must have recourse both to cunning and to make-believe. Great national qualities, like frankness and honesty, are vices in politics, for they bring down rulers from their thrones more effectively and more certainly than the most powerful enemy. "
"Our countersign is --Force and Make-believe. Only force conquers in political affairs, especially if it be concealed in the talents essential to statesmen. Violence must be the principle, and cunning and make-believe the rule of governments which do not want to lay down their crowns at the feet of agents of some new power. This evil is the one and only means to attain the end, the good. Therefore we must not stop at bribery, deceit and treachery when they should serve towards the attainment of our end. In politics one must know how to seize the property of others without hesitation if by it we secure submission and sovereignty."
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2002, 12:45:50 AM »

I thought Bush was actually pretty restrained.  It was interesting how he was attempting to show how Iraq was thumbing their nose at the UN and if something wasn't done about it, the UN would lose legitimacy.  It was definitely a different speech than one he would make to convince Americans that a war with Iraq was justified.  

BTW, the idea that Indians were somehow pure and free of any sort of hatred or negative behavior before they encountered the evil white man is not only wrong, it's racist.
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