OT: The Beheading Videos

[JohnL]

I watched the Nick Berg video the same week it happened. I've seen other similar videos in the past. The fact that most people find watching these videos shocking and disturbing is precisely the reason I think people should see them. It's one thing to hear that terrorists chopped someone's head off and another thing to watch it happen. It demonstrates better than anything esle, what dangerous, barbaric psychos these animals are.

>I wondered if maybe one of those masked terrorists possibly felt a slight twinge
>of guilt and/or pity or empathy for the victim.

I doubt it. Probably the only regret they felt was that they could only do it to a single foreigner rather than all of them.

>i think that with each of these executions most americas get more and more
>dislillusioned with the war.

I'd have guessed that the opposite was true, that with every execution, Americans have less and less sympathy for the middle east. I think if they keep up the executions and the bombings, they're eventually going to provoke a war between the rest of the world and the middle east. Maybe that's what they want. It's hard to imagine that anyone could believe that broadcasting video of brutal murders would convince people to give them what they want. It's much more likely to strengthen the resolve to hunt them down and exterminate them.

>In my opinion, these men should be drug into the streets and quartered.

Forget quartering, it's too lenient. Do a search for the phrase "broken on the wheel".

[Gecko Brothers]

Speaking of disturbing video. On Joe Scarbarough(definite right winger guy) he interview a man that was in Iraq. They showed torture videos from Sadam's prison. Which reminds me of an interview with one Sadam's mistress. She was forced to do him *shudder* She said that after they did have sex *shudder* he would watch his victims die, beaten or raped. So even though what the soldiers did was wrong, he did worst. Apparently in Iraq you can buy these videos for a quarter.

[StatCat]

I feel no need to ever watch them. I can't believe they are even posted on the internet like spectacles which is even more disgusting and disturbing. I couldn't imagine the torture the prisoners they had went through. I don't feel any need whatsoever to watch another human being die viciously. All they are are videos to strike fear into people. One thing that angers me a lot is the fact that the Iraqi prisoner abuse gets more attention than these horrific murders. Those prisoners are in there for a reason- they aren't innocent people. Nobody is getting their head cut off viciously either so it's pretty pathetic to even compare that nonsense to this which is what I seem to see a lot.

[wickednick]

Ive seen these videos and after viewing them I belive we should just nuke the whole damn middle east. The middle east is a big cancer on the face of this planet and no matter what any of the worlds countrys have tried, the situation in the middle east has just gotten worse.Do these ass holes think that we are just going to be intimidated and leave? f**k NO! Wake up you terroist f**ks the longer you keep driving truck bombs into buildings and killing innocent people the longer we are going to stay in Iraq.
OH, but what p**ses me off the most is that are pathitic, politically correct, libral media cares more about some abuse in a Iraq prison than the brutal killings of three innocent people.
Maybe god will grant my prayers one day and land a big f**king asteroid right into are planet.

[maria paula]

u must be joking, right?

[Acidburn]

StatCat wrote:

>  Those prisoners are
> in there for a reason- they aren't innocent people. Nobody is
> getting their head cut off viciously either so it's pretty
> pathetic to even compare that nonsense to this which is what I
> seem to see a lot.
>

AMEN!!!!

[pavel]

Hey, i'm russian. I saw what those f**kers did to your people(i mean americans)----------usual thing. I've been seeing this s**t for about 6 years. You can find videos in the net where chechen-allah- bastards cut throuts of russian soldiers. We had 2 chechen wars in the 90s and i've seen a lot of these stuff: crucifying videos,torture videos and all this allah ackbar s**t. And practicaly all them were of a great quality.
So what can i say. The story's repeated. Damn.........

[-=NiGHTS=-]

Wyckednyck, you are a reactionist idiot.

What about the millions of good, honest, friendly people in the Middle East?  I happen to know a few of said people, and I'm sure they would take offense to you saying that their homes should be nuked.  Collateral damage is something that should be taken into account in any war.  Also:

"Granted, they were all abominable events and I don't condone murder in any form. (and yes I do think those terrorists deserve to die for what they did to those men.)"

...This doesn't strike you as even the least bit hypocritical?

[Longball]

After viewing the vidoes it just reinforces my thoughts that these people are never going to change.  They are a bunch of damn lunatics.  I say, get the hell out of there and let them all kill each other..........

[Anonymous]

I rather doubt the terrorists felt any sort of guilt. Why should they? They are in a hopeless war against enemy they can't really hurt, why should they bother with seeing one of the enemy as a real person? If you were defending your home (I have no doubt they see it that way, although from our perspective they are despicable terrorists), would you consider the feelings of someone who was trying to destroy it? Or would you do your best to dispose of him, preferably in such a way as to deter any others who might want to follow him? The means (decapitation) might seem unbearably cruel to us, but it isn't really any different from e.g. shooting or electrocuting. It's just that we see more of the latter than of the former.

Now we are getting to the question of why I am posting anonymously: There are quite a few unreasoning people all over the net, including this board, who would happily attack me for "defending the swine", despite the fact that I am simply trying to be objective about the issue. I don't feel the need to get a mailbox full of hatemail just because I prefer reasoning to emotions. If someone wants to discuss things in cold head, I am all for it.

A few comments to some of the posts:

- Gecko Brothers: Do you really think that a  videotaped killing is any worse than hidden one? It's all the same to the victim, the only difference is the effect on others. I for one think showing the decapitations is stupid because the opponents MUST reply with more force, but I don't think it's any more immoral than any other killing.

- Fluffy Catfood: I should think that years of perceived (not necessarily real, people aren't rational) aggression against yourself would be reason enough.

- Odinn7: I think something is seriously wrong when an attempt to get to the core of any issue is viewed as something bad. No matter what issue. Jumping to quick and easy solutions tends to cause the worst harm.

- Trek Geezer: What makes you think the executions are cowardly? You can hardly expect the terrorists to walk into Washington, D.C., and solve their issues directly with their "source". If they have no chance to do that, obviously they have to make use of targets they can reach. The poor dead guys had the misfortune to be in the wrong place in the wrong time.

- Acidburn: Yeah, I am sure that's a masterful summation of what the terrorists feel.

- StatCat: If somebody claims to be fighting for some ideals, he should not violate them. That's what's wrong with american soldiers torturing the prisoners, not the fact itself (I can easily imagine that someone might want to extract some revenge from a murderer of his close friend)

- Wyckednick: Nuking a whole region is surely much more moral than bombing a building, reason being, THEY deserve it while WE don't. No need to bother with innocent people, if they live there, they can't be innocent. Right? Maybe we should destroy the whole Earth, that should solve all crimes...

[Acidburn]

Do not get me wrong, I believe that the 1st amendment gives you the right to say whatever you wish.  It just so happens that you are wrong.  
Anyone here, myself included,  would protect our home to any extent necessary.  The only problem with that argument is that we are not out in the streets killing anyone we come across just for the heck of it.  We do not do things that  openly invite a force to come and and put a stop to the MASSIVE lose of life.  I have seen estimates that Saddam had over the past  10 years killed over  a million people.  1,000,000 PEOPLE!!!!!!   And the men that you see in this video were some of the men who carried out his orders.
 How can you sit back and say 'Well, they got what was coming to them, they should not have stuck there nose where it does not belong."   If I was walking down the street and saw someone being beaten or stabbed ar whatever, I would do anything in my power to try and help that person.  (And I have before)  
I do not understand the mentality of this country, they want  freedom but do not want to have to pay for that freedom.  An HONOR such as freedom is not FREE....it comes at a high cost, hundreds of throusands of american lives have been given so that you can say what you want to say.  Do not disrespect  those Valiant men and women, who did give their lives by not wanting to continue to fight for the beliefs that they died for.  
Sorry for the rant.  :)

[trekgeezer]

I'm really sorry anonymous that I can't be objective about cold blooded murder, no matter who is commiting it.  Any act of hostage taking is cowardly, and should be condemned loudly , not only by those related to the victim by nationality or blood, but also by those who are tarnished by these acts which they had nothing  to do with.  In other words Muslims who do not agree with these  tactics should be very loud in condemning them.  

The people who do these things have had  it pounded into them since youth that we are the great Satan, and our lives do not matter (that's called objectifying by the way).  Islam doesn't teach this. This is nothing but the religion of hate and hate does nothing but breed more hate.

No amount of intellectualizing can provide any understanding or excuse for this kind of behaviour.

[odinn7]

Anonymous, you sound like a sympathizer to me.



Post Edited (07-06-04 12:05)

[Anonymous]

Odinn7:
- Well, I am not. It's simply that:
1) I don't have enough information to say who's right and who's wrong. Perhaps all concerned are wrong (or right, from a different perspective).
2) I don't believe everything that is said, just because "everybody says that"
3) I can imagine situations where I might feel the same way as the terrorists (or freedom fighters, that's the same thing from an opposite perspective). I wouldn't walk around killing people, if for no other reason then because I don't believe there is anything (short of protecting one's own family) worth dying/killing for, but I can understand that mentally unstable people might decide to do otherwise.

Trek_Geezer:
- Any killing is wrong. If it is committed by terrorists, common murderers or governments doesn't really matter - the end result is the same for the victim.
- I strongly dislike the hypocrisy that leads us to condemn somebody for doing essentially the same thing we are doing ourselves.
- I am not trying to _excuse_ the murders, but to _explain_ them. There's a world of difference here, though it's rather common that people don't see it that way.

AcidBurn:
- We aren't doing those things, granted. The question is - would we not do them if we had our most hated enemies occupying our country?
- The biggest problem is that our beliefs are not necessarily those of others. We might sincerely believe we are giving them freedom, happiness, future. In reality, we are often wrong. I don't know about you, but I have been to quite a few different countries and met many people who are pitiful by our standards, but in their own way they live a happy life and don't need any of our "help".
- I seriously don't understand why should I change my beliefs just because somebody in the past died for his. What's done is done. We have to adapt to new conditions.

[Acidburn]

Not having things in regards to poverty is a completly different story.  These peopel are being helped in many different ways.  There is always charities that take up money to help feed said people.  
Now, that being said the people that we are liberating(sp) are not poor because the country does not have enough income to provide for them. They are poor because they were under the rule of a man that would rather kill them and thier entire family rather than help them.  
There are videos where Saddams son placed a soccer player in an IRON MADEN because he did not stop the other team from scoring.  And Saddam himself has lined people up and cut their toungs out because he heard they said something that he did not like.  People arms were chopped off because they bumped into on of his officers in a crowded market.

Now does this sound like a country that does not need help.  These people are so afraid they cannot walk outside for fear of being shot.

NOW LETS NOT FORGET  WHY  THIS WHOLE THING STARTED!!!!

We went into this country (along with members of the UN) because it was believed that Saddam did not live up to a agreement with the UN to dismember and destroy any and ALL weapons of mass destruction.  But once we were in there we saw how the people were being treated, and decided to act.   Along with a majority of the UN.  Now  of course you will always have people like the French, who would always say 'Yes they are wrong' but then when the time comes to act, they change their mind and decide to let everyone else handle it.  

Now all that being said there is no way that  I could behead someone just because he worked for someone that I did not like.  Lets not forget two of these men who were killed were not even in the military.  They were civillians!!!!!!!!   There trying to help rebuild the city.  They were killed for the simple fact that they came from the United States.   They were not there trying to kill anyone or dislodge this terrorist group. They were there helping rebuild the schools and homes that were distroyed.  
HOW CAN YOU SAY 'I CAN SEE WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM'!!!!