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July 15, 2018, 10:14:50 PM
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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  OT: My fight with Jack Thompson « previous next »
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Author Topic: OT: My fight with Jack Thompson  (Read 12008 times)
trekgeezer
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We're all just victims of circumstance


« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2005, 07:49:33 AM »

This kind of crap goes all the way back to the 50's when pinhead psychiatrist Fredric Wertham wrote a book called 'Seduction of the Innocent' about the evil influence of comic books. This got the Senate involved, which lead to the industry setting up the Comics Code Authority.

In the 60's the started jumping on television about being too violent. Hell, they  took Marshall Dillons gunfight off the beginning of Gunsmoke. I was an impressionable teen then, so I guess they saved me from a duel in the streets.

In the 80's they started up with pornography turning people into sex offenders. Why? Because sex offenders were likely to have a lot of porno laying around their home. Duh?!

The only people that are likely to be incited to act on something they see in entertainment  (video games, movies, or TV) are people who have no grounding in reality to begin with. This is another attempt at relieving parents of their responsibility and handing it over to the government.

Cable TV is next on the agenda for censorship. There are groups now  putting pressure on Congress to give the FCC authority over cable content like they have with broadcast TV.

On a lighter note, you should read this little article about the Comics Code which includes the Code itself, some parts of which are downright hilarious..


Skaboi, keep up the good fight.

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odinn7
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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2005, 08:30:39 AM »

I recall when Judas Priest was being hung out because of 2 mental midgets attempting suicide because of "Stained Class". I had that album and never thought it was one of Priests better attempts but I did listen to it many times over...guess what? I'm still here. Never tried to off myself on purpose.
I listen to metal (SLAYER(!!!!!!!) and Overkill are my favorites BTW) and haven't killed anyone...yet.
I used to play Dungeons & Dragons and Top Secret as a kid (yep, geek) and I recall that D&D was turning people into wicked and crazed killers and suicidal maniacs...or so it was said. Never killed anyone...yet.
I watched Bugs Bunny, Road Runner (pretty violent cartoons), horror movies, violent movies...I could go on but the point is that although these have all in some way influenced who I am now, they haven't had a negative effect and they haven't turned me into a sociopath. Could I kill someone intentionally? Sure I could. If I ever felt that my family was in danger, I wouldn't hesitate to pop someone. Does this mean that all the things listed above have caused me to be like this? Does this mean that I'm going to run around and commit random violent acts? Let's be serious. I have no doubt that games, movies, tv have a negative influence on a very, very small percentage of the population but these people are off balance anyway and any reason would be enough for them.
People that want to ban things because they may have a negative impact on the weak minded are ridiculous. Do me a favor, don't try to save me from myself and don't determine that I am too weak minded to view or listen to things. I can make that decision and until my daughter is old enough, my wife and I can make that decision for her. We don't need some outsider deciding this for our own good.
Keep it up Skaboi, the guy is obviously an ass.

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Zapranoth
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« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2005, 08:32:41 AM »

Skaboi, keep up the good fight...

... but remember that you're arguing with a fanatic.  I looked at this site (nokillzone or whatever it is) and he's definitely not someone who can be told anything, by what I can tell.  Would 10,000 emails from different people convince him that his totally bats**t stand against this "issue" is just that?  

Your argument would be useful if it occurred in a larger sense (a place where people not certain about the issue could follow it), but as it is I know you are mainly here for moral support (ha!) which you know we'll give.

I'm not trying to put you down.  Your argument is very good.  But this guy seems a like foaming carpet-chewer.

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Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2005, 08:34:27 AM »

I'm happy to see the support on this board.  I sort of had the feeling that it might misconstrued as political.

Here's the latest:




wow, you must be the Goebbels of the video game industry in your town

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: George C.
    To: Jack Thompson
    Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 9:21 AM
    Subject: Re: (no subject)

    You know there was another government that tried to impose their beliefs on their people and restrict what they see/do.

    They were called The Nazis.

    Just a thought.

    George Cook

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Derf
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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2005, 10:13:59 AM »

First of all, let me say that I agree with the points you are making, Skaboi. Like Odinn7, I played the violent and deadly games and watched the horribly violent cartoons and such (sorry, though--I never was into metal music much), but I have no socially violent tendencies whatsoever. As has been said, I believe that these "negative influences" affect only a tiny minority of already weak-minded individuals. I abhor censorship of any kind (although I would like to tell some people to shut up and go away forever), be it over comic books, books, TV, movies, video games, etc. I believe to an extent in the free market system (i.e.--if there is no market for something, it will go away), so that if there were no market for violent video games or whatever, there would be no violent video games on the market. I also believe (is this turning into a creed yet?) that you cannot legislate morality on anything other than very basic levels (e.g. murder, kidnapping, rape, etc.), and that censorship of TV and video games and such does NOT fall under that "very basic" category. Truth be told, I'm very nearly an anarchist, except that I know that anarchy doesn't work when more than three people are involved.

That said, and please don't take this as a defense of Jack Thompson or of Hillary C., please remember that most of the people who support regulations on ultra-violent video games or music or TV are simply regular people trying to make things better for their children, or trying to assure that their children won't be the unfortunate victim of some weak-minded fool who does fall prey to these "evil influences." Lawyers and politicians may take an issue like this and try to elevate themselves in the eyes of others by going on a crusade (as seems to be the case with Thompson and certainly with Hillary C.), but don't assume that everyone who favors restrictions is trying to "impose his views on everyone else." That may be the effect, but more often, as I said, it is just someone who is trying to better the world for his kids. These "crusades" rarely work beyond something like the voluntary rating systems now in place (thankfully), and this one is almost certainly doomed.

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Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2005, 10:36:35 AM »

Derf, I understand what you are saying 100%.  

I have no problem with people who want to regulate the rating/sale of these games to children.  That is fine by me, but some of them (as in Thompson's case) take it too far.  Some do become a fanatic, as this guy has.

As I stated in an email to Thompson - he shouldn't be trying to ban the games.  Stop selling the games to minors, but don't ruin it for everyone.

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"The greatest medicine in the world is human laughter. And the worst medicine is zombie laughter." -- Jack Handey

A bald man named Savalas visited me last night in a dream.  I think it was a Telly vision.
Derf
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« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2005, 11:00:58 AM »

I didn't mean to sound preachy or anything (something I do quite a lot); it's just that I see too much name calling and stereotyping and too little actual discussion going on in my classrooms (I teach English, which is, in part, persuasive writing) and in the "real world," and I tend to go overboard when I hear "fanatics" or "Nazis" or words to that effect. It's too easy to fall into the trap of labelling, thereby forgetting that most people aren't as fanatical as the leaders of a group. I'm going to stop now; I'm starting to sound like a hippie or something. . . not to label myself or anything.

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AndyC
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« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2005, 12:35:11 PM »

I do believe everything we are exposed to affects us. I mean, how many people in Hollywood think beating us over the head with messages will steer us toward doing the "right" thing, but absolutely deny that movies could have a negative effect as well.

That said, I don't think the games are the problem here. The problem is the idiot parents who let the kids play games that are inappropriate for their ages, and don't put any limits on the game playing. I know one family that has a small son who comes home, plunks down in front of the game console and stays there for hours every day. His younger brother doesn't even care enough to play. He just sits and watches. They told me this as though it were just an interesting bit of behaviour. This is what their kids like to do, and it keeps them quiet and out of the way, so what the hell?

I think it's apalling. Of course, these are also parents who take a lot of backtalk (and think it's funny and cute), let their kids tell them what to do, never stand firm on anything, and never seem to follow through on threats of punishment for bad behaviour. As far as I can tell, they don't even make the family eat dinner together.

That is the problem.

Yes, I get disturbed when I see a lack of great games like we used to have, many of which required skill but weren't particularly violent. It bothers me when I hear small kids talking about really violent games, and how they don't like games that aren't violent. But it is the fault of lazy parents. And even good parents have to be concerned that their kids have friends with lazy parents.

I do think games have a bad influence on many kids, but it is only one more thing added to a lot of other things that are messing them up. It is up to parents to keep inappropriate games out of their hands, and give them a proper grounding in right and wrong, real and fantasy. If they're raised right to begin with, stuff like this won't hurt them.

The marketers of the games are also to blame, to some degree. The games might have mature ratings on them, but I see them advertised in prime time, when kids are watching.



Post Edited (07-15-05 16:19)
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Fearless Freep
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« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2005, 05:05:35 PM »

I think Madison Ave makes a living...and a very good one, under the assumption that we are affected by what we watch....

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2xSlick
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« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2005, 11:32:16 AM »

Skaboi, the man doesn't even read the emails you send him. Check this out:

From: jddunn
Date: 07/15/05 12:10:51
To: jackpeace@comcast.net
Subject: Researching available evidence
 
 
Mr. Thompson,
     I am doing a statistics project this summer and I would like to report on the evidence available confirming that violent programing (in movies, music, and especially video games) can lead to violent behavior. I am trying to find reported studies linking learned behavior with violent video games. Could you please reply to this email with a list of studies and where I can obtain the complete reports? The little information I have been able to find only gives brief outlines of the studies and haven't been very helpful.
 
Thank you,
Jeremiah Dunn

*note, my email isn't bogus, I am doing a statistics based project*
*His response*

From: Jack Thompson
Date: 07/16/05 07:40:34
To: jddunn
Subject: Re: Researching available evidence
 

If I be retarded, then ye gamers hath to worry, Ahh, but methinks you
all doth protest too much.  You doth worry that I am right, and if right,
then travail shalt ensue for all those who worship the pixelated beast.  To
mod or not to mod.  That is the question. For it is a far, far better thing
you do when you doth put down the controllers and get lives.  But parting is
such sweet sorrow.   Jack Shakespeare Thompson

PS:  Buy a book and dare to read it.  Such dost grow back even the
groundlings' frontal lobes.  I come not to bury Doug Lowenstein but to
praise him!

That response makes absoluetely no sense. I believe he has a software filter for his email address and only those that have the phrases "I am a parent" or "class-action lawsuit" are actually read by him. The rest get a canned  autoreply of "nani-nani-boo-boo-stick-your-head-in-doo-doo."



Post Edited (07-16-05 11:34)
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dean
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« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2005, 10:53:03 PM »


>>>>The rest get a canned autoreply of "nani-nani-boo-boo-stick-your-head-in-doo-doo."


This is by far a better argument than some of the earlier replies to Skaboi.  Much more entertaining.

Why am I not surprised...

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daveblackeye15
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WWW
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2005, 12:29:33 AM »

Way to go Skaboi. I play a lot of video games too and I am honestly the last guy that wants to get in a fight (unless somebody has offened or injuried one of my friends then it's "enemy" time)

I'd add more but I'm a little tired from a long air plane flight so I'm going to sleep.

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Neville
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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2005, 08:20:44 AM »

Funny. I play every single violent game I can afford, and yet, instead of becoming a maniachal serial killer, I have trouble to express my anger. Somehow I must be using that stuff the wrong way...

And a pity those responses are automatic, I was just about asking Skaboi to thank Jack Thmpson, because if it wasn't for him I wouldn't even know the Hot Coffee mod existed.

Needless to say, I think the whole real violence - VG violence realtion is bulls**t. Reminds me of an old John Carpenter interview in which he mentions that back in his youth it was believed that european movies, with their anti-heroes and pessimistic endings were ruining the children. Guess that every generation those people need to find a different dragon to fight.

Whenever somebody tells me about criminals playing violent games or similar things (and often this is plain false), I use to remind them that 100% of criminals breath air, and yet somebody has to ban it.

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Susan
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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2005, 10:31:05 PM »

i hate it when people assume that if you play video games or watch movies you don't read books and are uneducated. Also don't play video games and get a life? It's a recreation, the same as watching movies, READING or even playing golf. maybe you should tell him to put down his golf club and get a life.

On Book Burning:
>>Book burning is the practice of ceremoniously destroying by fire one or more copies of a  book or other written material. In modern times other forms of media, such as  (Click link for more info and facts about gramophone record) gramophone records,  CDs and  video tapes, have also been ceremoniously burned or shredded. The practice, often carried out publicly, is usually motivated by  moral,  political or  religious objections to the material.<<<

Now the idea of destroying or preventing the public from access to these items is a form of censorship for personal motives. You are trying to impose your moral/ethical beliefs on others who may not share them. When you take the choice away from someone, you take away their liberty. Something our constitution mentions.....

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Neville
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« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2005, 12:59:31 AM »

Susan wrote: "i hate it when people assume that if you play video games or watch movies you don't read books and are uneducated. Also don't play video games and get a life? It's a recreation, the same as watching movies, READING or even playing golf. maybe you should tell him to put down his golf club and get a life."

Playing VG (even the lamest VG) is actually more intelectually demanding than watching TV, so I don't really understand what people who say things like that are thinking.

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