Random Thought Thread: The Sequel

[Alex]

...mostly "atheists" seem to be people who hate God, not disbelieve in God.

I've never encountered anyone who meets that description and I don't think it makes any sense. Now, a lot of atheists hate Christians, and maybe that even has something to do with them becoming atheists, but believing in God and hating him? I can't wrap my head around that.

Don't know if this will help explain it or not, but this is my take on things. I have mentioned on other threads that I don't believe in god, but if I did, then I would hate him. When we lost Lilly-Beth we hadn't done anything wrong that caused that, it wasn't some incompatible genetics between myself and Kristi. It was just one of those things that unfortunately happen. If I were to believe in god, then there would be a reason that she'd died. It would be because he (or she or it or they or whatever) had decided it was going to happen. If I believed in god, then I'd have to accept that he murdered my child and there is no way I could respond to that with anything but hatred. Now generally the first responses I get to that line of thinking is that we just aren't capable of understanding a being as powerful as a god and that he has his reasons for these actions. Doesn't matter to me. If he exists, then it was his choice to create us that way and I am dealing with the limitations he gave us the best I can and I am responding the way I would to anything committing what I'd perceive as an evil act be they animal, man or god.

Anyway, hopefully, that gives you a view on a different perspective. Writing it has got me thinking on a tangent about how if our understanding of good and evil is imperfect, then what was the big deal about eating the apple anyway, but that's another topic.

[ER]

Alex, it may be as some people say that God has a plan and the loss of children fits into it. I don't know. I do suspect if one of my children died (the most horrible thing I can think of) I would feel hate for God.

[Rev. Powell]

...mostly "atheists" seem to be people who hate God, not disbelieve in God.

I've never encountered anyone who meets that description and I don't think it makes any sense. Now, a lot of atheists hate Christians, and maybe that even has something to do with them becoming atheists, but believing in God and hating him? I can't wrap my head around that.

I know RC thinks I never let ten words do when a few hundred might work as well,    but what the heck, like eye color and addiction, it's in my DNA...

I agree with you that atheism precludes a dislike of something a person is convinced isn't there, Rev, but you really have never encountered the phenomenon of people who say they're atheists but seem absolutely obsessed with hating God? That surprises me, because I have seen that a lot.

Oh, I get hating some Christians, I spent a lot of my younger days unfairly lumping a couple billion people in with the book burning Moral Majority sorts. I also understand anger toward God, and think it takes strong intellectual muscles to even subscribe to the idea an unseen God could possibly exist in a world so full of pain.

The concept of so many atheists hating God clicked with me long ago when I heard a George Orwell quote:

"He was an embittered atheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him...."

And when I heard that, I thought....Orwell was right, there are those sorts of atheists. And when I realized that, I noticed most people I knew who said they were atheists seemed to spend a lot of time hating this God they claimed wasn't even there.

Like Penn Jillette (whom I like very much in general, by the way) he will take almost any chance to tell you there is no God, yet he also gleefully calls this being he doesn't believe in a "prick" and some other things I probably shouldn't type here. That's anger.

Or the insightful XTC song Dear God, it concludes by saying "I don't believe in you" only after addressing this supposedly non-existent personage and indicting it with a multitude of crimes. How can you indict "nothing" with "something"?

You can't call yourself an atheist and have it both ways, maintaining God doesn't exist, yet making God a legitimate target of anger. That's like me blaming Santa for not bringing me that hair crimper when I was nine.

I do believe atheists exist and know some, usually get along fine with them, but I know a lot more angry sorts who do seem to hate God and then manifest that hatred in saying they don't believe in God. (I also notice those types seem to be under a certain age, to be honest, and evolve away from that when they're older. Go figure, eh?)

Slightly off topic but I married a man who is so apathetic about the question of God's existence he genuinely does not care about the topic enough to try to define the word that best describes how he feels about God. He'll go to church with his mom if she asks him for a special reason, and then walk out and not be able to tell you what the church service was about. But that's another sort of person altogether, neither believer, nor agnostic, nor atheist. (I sometimes envy him....)

Lot of shades of color in white light.

No, I can't say I've personally ever encountered the phenomenon Orwell is talking about, though of course some people would meet that definition. I've never seen Penn Gillette as angry at God, though I don't really follow him. I don't interpret the XTC song as being angry at God, either. It's a reductio ad absurdum on the problem of evil: let's hypothetically accept that God exists. If so, he endorses killing babies and mass starvation and all sorts of suffering. Therefore, I don't believe in him.

My high school girlfriend once insisted that I believed in God despite me telling her I didn't. I believe she was probably threatened by the possibility that everyone didn't deep down believe in God. Therefore, she needed to believe I was just in denial about my own belief. Of course, I can't know her mind.

[Allhallowsday]

...I know RC thinks I never let ten words do when a few hundred might work as well...

He ain't the only one.  

I agree with you that atheism precludes a dislike of something a person is convinced isn't there, Rev, but you really have never encountered the phenomenon of people who say they're atheists but seem absolutely obsessed with hating God? That surprises me, because I have seen that a lot.

Oh, I get hating some Christians, I spent a lot of my younger days unfairly lumping a couple billion people in with the book burning Moral Majority sorts. I also understand anger toward God, and think it takes strong intellectual muscles to even subscribe to the idea an unseen God could possibly exist in a world so full of pain.

The concept of so many atheists hating God clicked with me long ago when I heard a George Orwell quote:

"He was an embittered atheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him...."

And when I heard that, I thought....Orwell was right, there are those sorts of atheists. And when I realized that, I noticed most people I knew who said they were atheists seemed to spend a lot of time hating this God they claimed wasn't even there.

If that's an ORWELL quote about whom was he speaking?  Himself?

Like Penn Jillette (whom I like very much in general, by the way) he will take almost any chance to tell you there is no God, yet he also gleefully calls this being he doesn't believe in a "prick" and some other things I probably shouldn't type here. That's anger.

Or the insightful XTC song Dear God, it concludes by saying "I don't believe in you" only after addressing this supposedly non-existent personage and indicting it with a multitude of crimes. How can you indict "nothing" with "something"?

You can't call yourself an atheist and have it both ways, maintaining God doesn't exist, yet making God a legitimate target of anger. That's like me blaming Santa for not bringing me that hair crimper when I was nine.

I do believe atheists exist and know some, usually get along fine with them, but I know a lot more angry sorts who do seem to hate God and then manifest that hatred in saying they don't believe in God...

You undermine your own argument when you suggest "intellectual muscles" are necessary.  Hell yes.  

[Leah]

Sometimes an Atheist is an atheist because they hates God. Sometimes it's because they read the Bible. Sometimes it's because they see the Church turn people into a cult (a la Televangelists). Sometimes a priest turns someone in need away. And sometimes it's because the people in their family claims to be Christian/Catholic/whatever and goes against what they either believe in or go against what they read.Bottom line is that not every Atheist hates God, sometimes it's the surroundings/people that does.

[ER]

...I know RC thinks I never let ten words do when a few hundred might work as well...

He ain't the only one.  

I agree with you that atheism precludes a dislike of something a person is convinced isn't there, Rev, but you really have never encountered the phenomenon of people who say they're atheists but seem absolutely obsessed with hating God? That surprises me, because I have seen that a lot.

Oh, I get hating some Christians, I spent a lot of my younger days unfairly lumping a couple billion people in with the book burning Moral Majority sorts. I also understand anger toward God, and think it takes strong intellectual muscles to even subscribe to the idea an unseen God could possibly exist in a world so full of pain.

The concept of so many atheists hating God clicked with me long ago when I heard a George Orwell quote:

"He was an embittered atheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him...."

And when I heard that, I thought....Orwell was right, there are those sorts of atheists. And when I realized that, I noticed most people I knew who said they were atheists seemed to spend a lot of time hating this God they claimed wasn't even there.

If that's an ORWELL quote about whom was he speaking?  Himself?

Like Penn Jillette (whom I like very much in general, by the way) he will take almost any chance to tell you there is no God, yet he also gleefully calls this being he doesn't believe in a "prick" and some other things I probably shouldn't type here. That's anger.

Or the insightful XTC song Dear God, it concludes by saying "I don't believe in you" only after addressing this supposedly non-existent personage and indicting it with a multitude of crimes. How can you indict "nothing" with "something"?

You can't call yourself an atheist and have it both ways, maintaining God doesn't exist, yet making God a legitimate target of anger. That's like me blaming Santa for not bringing me that hair crimper when I was nine.

I do believe atheists exist and know some, usually get along fine with them, but I know a lot more angry sorts who do seem to hate God and then manifest that hatred in saying they don't believe in God...

You undermine your own argument when you suggest "intellectual muscles" are necessary.  Hell yes.  

And yet you still read everything I write, John. 

[Allhallowsday]

...And yet you still read everything I write, John. 

Of course, your writing can be interesting. 
Now can you respond to my ORWELL question? 
And perhaps you see no value in my pointing out what you presumably know: considering the supernatural takes some mental gymnastics. 

[pacman000]

Source for that quote: https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780191826719.001.0001/q-oro-ed4-00000527

Comes from one of Orwell's novels; if anyone can find a copy we can have the context & make a guess about who he refers to.

[Allhallowsday]

Source for that quote: https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780191826719.001.0001/q-oro-ed4-00000527

Comes from one of Orwell's novels; if anyone can find a copy we can have the context & make a guess about who he refers to.

Thank you; I construed as much.  I am not interested in an answer.  I am interested in her answer.

[Rev. Powell]

IMDB reviewers crack me up. xbxfrk calls IN THE EARTH "Genuinely the worst movie I've ever seen." Rates it 2/10.

[RCMerchant]

The train just passed threw Lawton. I love that sound.  
It's 1:15 in the afternoon. Smells like rain. Everything is quite, it's 72 F., and the train horn is blowing.
It's good to be alive.

[claws]

Just left a Facebook Disco group that rejected my submission of Gloria by Laura Braningan. They said it is not disco.
Well, its not disco in a classic 1970s way but it is still disco. It's the most disco sounding song released in 1982 and already sounded "disco-dated" back then. It's a cover of a 1979 Italian disco song. It uses the same arrangements and beats, only the lyrics were changed to English.
Branigan's version is not even Post-Disco. It's just a 1:1 cover of the 1979 original that happen to be released in 1982.

But ok, fine, whatever.

[LilCerberus]

^I feel the same way about Blondie... Everybody else says they're punk, but I think they're disco^

[RCMerchant]

Some guy named Larry Kudlow is warning us about "plant based beer" on Fox news-

"So get ready: You can throw back a plant-based beer with your grilled Brussels sprouts and wave your American flag. Call it July 4 green," Kudlow said.

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

Yeah. As opposed to meat based beer?
ALL beer is plant based , moron! 

[Bushma]

Just had to share this.

I was talking with my daughter and she said "We should watch the good Troll movie."
I asked "Which one?"
She said "The good one."
I asked "Which one?"
She said "The good one.  The one with the witch?"
I asked "Troll 2?"
She said "I guess so."

I'm so proud!