COVID-19 Rant

[Paquita]

So I've been home since last Monday because I met with someone from New York that we later found was in the same office building as someone that tested positive the week before we met.  It's officially been over 14 days since I met with that person and none of us are sick.  Does that mean I didn't have it?  I don't even know.  If I did have it and was asymptomatic, am I in the clear now?  No clue.  It's only been 10 days since I was last in Chicago and on public transit so I won't feel truly clean until next week.

I'm pretty excited about getting back to a world where people are hopefully more hygienic than usual.  I've always been super weird about hand washing and always carry hand sanitizer and wet wipes, now I won't feel so weird.

I feel bad for the people that know they were some of the first to bring the virus to certain areas.  I wonder if they feel terrible about knowing they spread something that caused all this.  I know I would.  It probably would have happened anyway, if it wasn't one person, it would have been another.. but I just can't imagine being the person that knows they exposed a nursing home to it or spread it to someone that ended up dying from it.  I'm expecting lawsuits in a couple months with people claiming others intentionally infected them or someone was reckless and caused someone else to get it that died from it.  Could that be manslaughter?  There's probably some blanket rule that will be applied to protect those people. 

[Rev. Powell]

I just can't imagine being the person that knows they exposed a nursing home to it or spread it to someone that ended up dying from it.  I'm expecting lawsuits in a couple months with people claiming others intentionally infected them or someone was reckless and caused someone else to get it that died from it.  Could that be manslaughter?  There's probably some blanket rule that will be applied to protect those people. 

Hi Paquita! Glad you're feeling well.

In my opinion there's no DA in the country who would charge someone who recklessly spread Covid-19 with manslaughter with the information we have now. (Such cases have very rarely been tried against people with HIV, and that's with everyone clearly understanding the risks involved for decades). As to whether a civil suit based on negligence could be filed... I suspect at least one will be, with the right set of facts. Success would depend on the jury, but juries tend to be very free with throwing other people's money at sympathetic defendants.

[Rev. Powell]

Another 1,000 worldwide deaths yesterday, a total increase of 12% in the death toll. About 9,000 total dead globally over the 2 months it's been tracked. Obviously, the disease will flatten out eventually, but it's still in the growing phase.

[sprite75]

I just can't imagine being the person that knows they exposed a nursing home to it or spread it to someone that ended up dying from it.  I'm expecting lawsuits in a couple months with people claiming others intentionally infected them or someone was reckless and caused someone else to get it that died from it.  Could that be manslaughter?  There's probably some blanket rule that will be applied to protect those people. 

Hi Paquita! Glad you're feeling well.

In my opinion there's no DA in the country who would charge someone who recklessly spread Covid-19 with manslaughter with the information we have now. (Such cases have very rarely been tried against people with HIV, and that's with everyone clearly understanding the risks involved for decades). As to whether a civil suit based on negligence could be filed... I suspect at least one will be, with the right set of facts. Success would depend on the jury, but juries tend to be very free with throwing other people's money at sympathetic defendants.

Future lawyer here too: I think in most civil cases it would be hard to prove actual malice.  Jury awards can get reduced at the appellate and higher stages.   If a judge thought a jury in a civil case was being really out of line or reached a conclusion that no reasonable jury could have reached the judge could enter what's called a Judgement NOtwithstanding the Verdict (JNOV).   It's not granted all that often but I could see it happening in a case like this.  

[Alex]

Glad to her you are doing ok.Stay healthy and hugs from Scotland.

[Rev. Powell]

I just can't imagine being the person that knows they exposed a nursing home to it or spread it to someone that ended up dying from it.  I'm expecting lawsuits in a couple months with people claiming others intentionally infected them or someone was reckless and caused someone else to get it that died from it.  Could that be manslaughter?  There's probably some blanket rule that will be applied to protect those people. 

Hi Paquita! Glad you're feeling well.

In my opinion there's no DA in the country who would charge someone who recklessly spread Covid-19 with manslaughter with the information we have now. (Such cases have very rarely been tried against people with HIV, and that's with everyone clearly understanding the risks involved for decades). As to whether a civil suit based on negligence could be filed... I suspect at least one will be, with the right set of facts. Success would depend on the jury, but juries tend to be very free with throwing other people's money at sympathetic defendants.

Future lawyer here too: I think in most civil cases it would be hard to prove actual malice.  Jury awards can get reduced at the appellate and higher stages.   If a judge thought a jury in a civil case was being really out of line or reached a conclusion that no reasonable jury could have reached the judge could enter what's called a Judgement NOtwithstanding the Verdict (JNOV).   It's not granted all that often but I could see it happening in a case like this.  

I'm sure you misspoke about actual malice. Unless I'm deeply wrong, it's not an element of negligence or non-defamation tort cases, though mens rea is required for most criminal cases. The rest is correct.

Sorry for the shop talk, folks.

[sprite75]

I just can't imagine being the person that knows they exposed a nursing home to it or spread it to someone that ended up dying from it.  I'm expecting lawsuits in a couple months with people claiming others intentionally infected them or someone was reckless and caused someone else to get it that died from it.  Could that be manslaughter?  There's probably some blanket rule that will be applied to protect those people. 

Hi Paquita! Glad you're feeling well.

In my opinion there's no DA in the country who would charge someone who recklessly spread Covid-19 with manslaughter with the information we have now. (Such cases have very rarely been tried against people with HIV, and that's with everyone clearly understanding the risks involved for decades). As to whether a civil suit based on negligence could be filed... I suspect at least one will be, with the right set of facts. Success would depend on the jury, but juries tend to be very free with throwing other people's money at sympathetic defendants.

Future lawyer here too: I think in most civil cases it would be hard to prove actual malice.  Jury awards can get reduced at the appellate and higher stages.   If a judge thought a jury in a civil case was being really out of line or reached a conclusion that no reasonable jury could have reached the judge could enter what's called a Judgement NOtwithstanding the Verdict (JNOV).   It's not granted all that often but I could see it happening in a case like this.  

I'm sure you misspoke about actual malice. Unless I'm deeply wrong, it's not an element of negligence or non-defamation tort cases, though mens rea is required for most criminal cases. The rest is correct.

Sorry for the shop talk, folks.

I apologize too for the past, present, and future shop talk.

Yeah you're right about the actual malice. 

I do wonder if there are going to be some defamation cases winding up through the courts though related to COVID-19?  I could see where situations where defamation might be an issue.

[ER]

Catholic churches locally and I assume everywhere are having to cancel Lenten fish fries, and my mother knows a parish financial administrator who said one-quarter of her parish's yearly budget comes from those six weeks of Friday dinners.

That's going to filter down into the parish's ability to operate its food pantry and undertake other charitable works at the very time those are most needed.

In response the pastor there is donating his salary back into the church's charitable works fund (diocesan priests get paid, those in religious orders such as Jesuits, Franciscans, etc. get a more basic stipend), and some lay employees there are voluntarily taking 25% pay cuts, which is noble but I think this curtailing of churches' incomes represents the tip of the iceberg in all walks of life, private and public, when it comes to this pandemic affecting things we may not even be thinking about at this time.

It reminds me of, say, a tsunami hitting a coastal area, and how after the water recedes the area is still stricken in so many ways for a long time. We're potentially in for a long hard year.

[Rev. Powell]

I do wonder if there are going to be some defamation cases winding up through the courts though related to COVID-19?  I could see where situations where defamation might be an issue.

Maybe it's a loathsome disease?

[Rev. Powell]

Catholic churches locally and I assume everywhere are having to cancel Lenten fish fries, and my mother knows a parish financial administrator who said one-quarter of her parish's yearly budget comes from those six weeks of Friday dinners.

That's going to filter down into the parish's ability to operate its food pantry and undertake other charitable works at the very time those are most needed.

In response the pastor there is donating his salary back into the church's charitable works fund (diocesan priests get paid, those in religious orders such as Jesuits, Franciscans, etc. get a more basic stipend), and some lay employees there are voluntarily taking 25% pay cuts, which is noble but I think this curtailing of churches' incomes represents the tip of the iceberg in all walks of life, private and public, when it comes to this pandemic affecting things we may not even be thinking about at this time.

It reminds me of, say, a tsunami hitting a coastal area, and how after the water recedes the area is still stricken in so many ways for a long time. We're potentially in for a long hard year.

Fish frys are huge here, and I was actually going to go to one this year since I had a devout no-meat-on-Fridays Catholic visiting last week. All canceled, naturally. 

[claws]

We are now under "house arrest" since midnight for the next two weeks. Grocery stores, pharmacies and gas stations remain open. Food places open only for take out or delivery, no more indoor seating. We are told only to leave the house if really necessary (shopping, job). No social gatherings, no "corona parties." If you must leave the house than do it alone or with one person you are living together. Families with children may take walks but should keep distance to others. However, families are not allowed to go shopping together. Outdoor sports are allowed but not in groups unless you are with family.

I haven't heard anything from my firm regarding work since I'm still on vacation. Short-time work seems like a possibility I guess but who knows. I haven't left the house since yesterday and I won't leave the house until next week. Our town is like a ghost town at the moment. It's nice to see people realizing the situation and taking it seriously.

[chefzombie]

several states started the " shelter in place" modes over the last week. naturally, being a red state, mine is only in partial protection mode. we have our first "live in" positive case as of yesterday, people are buying guns. that scares me.

[Alex]

Apparently the WHO sent a team over from China to see why Italy is being so hard hit. Part of it is because Italy has an older population, but the team freaked out when they saw Italian people were ignoring the whole quarantine thing and no one was enforcing it.

Hopefully, other countries can learn from Italy's mistakes and keep their infrection and death rates down to a minimum.

[sprite75]

I get the feeling that people can do everything asked of them and some dips**t politicians will still act like its not enough.  Pretty soon they'll be kicking in doors to ensure that people are only behaving in "approved" manners and these dips**t politicians will not give up their emergency powers when the emergency is actually over.

[claws]

A FB friend uploaded pics of her and several older ladies making breakfast and lunches for kids to pick up at their school (which is closed). The women are standing side-by-side and some are hug-posing one another for pics. I'm not really that close of a friend of hers to leave a comment about practising social distance. I mean, they should know better but judging by the pics they don't seem to care.