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September 01, 2014, 06:38:17 PM
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Author Topic: The 6th November is a big day for my family in the USA  (Read 3083 times)
El Misfit
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« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2012, 06:38:38 PM »

Just one question Indy- Who is America in debt to? America cannot be in debt to itself, cuz that would mean that the rich will have all of the money.
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yeah no.
lester1/2jr
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« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2012, 06:50:32 PM »

The problem with republicans is people think, correctly, that whatever cuts they make to wasteful spending programs will simply be added on to the military empire. As pointless as many, i would say all, of those domestic programs are, they are all better than bombing people.  I think Rand Paul is the one to lead them out of the woods on that. He's more of a modern thinker on those issues
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Jim H
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« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2012, 06:59:33 PM »

The out of control spending.  This President added more to the debt in four years than any President in U.S. history, and plans to pile on more debt in his next term.  Eventually, China cuts up our credit cards and collapse follows.

So, you're worried China will deliberately destory its most important trading partner?

You're right to be worried about the debt, and Obama should have done more to cut spending when Congress failed to pass his tax hikes (especially as government revenue declined in a sluggish economy) - but I really think you're jumping the gun in being heart-broken over a destroyed country.  Many economic indicators indicate things will get better in the next four years - and the president can only do so much to help or hinder such things anyway.  And I really don't think you have to worry TOO much about China's actions here.

Cheer up.   Cheers
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El Misfit
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« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2012, 07:00:45 PM »

Lester, in my expierece, the current Gov. of Louisiana has done more damage than good, with budget cuts that is taking away engineering at colleges like LSU. Thankfully, I'm at Delgado that still has engineering as an option, which I'm taking.
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yeah no.
indianasmith
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« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2012, 07:01:53 PM »

Not so much destroy us as OWN us.  Economic peonage to the absolutely amoral People's Republic is what I see coming.
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« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2012, 10:03:55 PM »

Indy's grim outlook for America is basically the same as every Republican friend I have. It's sour grapes in my opinion.

I'm cautiously optimistic because Romney encouraged Republicans to work with Obama in his concession speech. Obama said he's willing to work with Republicans in his victory speech.

I think it's pretty cool that Tammy Baldwin became the first openly gay person to be elected to the U.S. Senate.
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Mofo Rising
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« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2012, 04:56:08 AM »

Ah, don't worry. China is giving every indication that they are living on the edge of an economic bubble that is going to burst at any time. For a communist nation, they are the poster model for the danger of capitalism unrestrained. They will implode because the map does not match the territory.

Really, the only reason I'm glad Obama won is because I think there are some very basic social issues that need time to breath. The war against gay marriage I find idiotic. This election will let that particular issue breath, and then will we will all stop worrying about it and let it be.

More importantly, the issue of human-based climate change, which almost every single scientist is arguing for, will no longer be set to the side as niche-issue. Sure there are some good arguments against its possibility, but almost nobody in the scientific community believes those. Get rid of the cherry-picking because the opposite makes political sense to you.

But what I really hope for is that party obstructionism will end. Romney's concession speech was wonderful. We're facing some incredibly tough times. I don't care what party you subscribe to, we really need to put party politics aside and work together to put this country back into the privileged position we've occupied for years.

As to why the Repulican party lost, can I mention a few things. I'm young, I'm a "minority," and I vote. Recognize me.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 12:39:38 PM by Mofo Rising » Logged

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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2012, 09:11:57 AM »

INdy- it's here. economic whatever that is is here
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ulthar
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« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2012, 10:42:23 PM »


Honest question, what has changed in your life or those in your community in the past four years that makes you think the country is essentially wrecked?



The economic growth that is reported is not keeping pace with inflation, at least by some indicators (never a good sign).

On 31 Dec 2007, the DJIA closed at $12,800.  Today, it closed at $12,815.  That's pretty flat, even not correcting for inflation.

How much would that $12,800 be worth today when corrected for inflation?

$13,757

That's a loss of about 7% value.  Since the market was essentially flat over the last four years and inflation has been about 7.5%, that means for ever dollar you put in the bank in 2008 is only worth about 92 cents now.

No one in their right mind would call that acceptable.

What could Obama have done to change that?  Perhaps nothing.  Well...nothing in a "positive" sense, because he could have DECREASED the size and involvement of government in the operation of the economy and he did exactly the opposite.  If he had done so, we may not have seen the effect in four years, so we cannot lay any blame for this at his feet directly.

What we CAN lay at his feet is that the national debt exceeds the freaking national GDP.  Anyone that does not understand the importance of that absolutely should not have the right to vote.

In short, such a system is unsustainable.  It's beyond a perpetual motion machine.  There is absolutely NO WAY a nation can survive in this economic mode.  It's not fun and games, it's not cute sound bites and platitudes.  It simply can not work.

I'm not big on about.com in general, but I do think this page gives a pretty good synopsis on the facts and figures.

And, to answer your specific question, some people define their nation as their community.  I look around me, and see entire shopping centers closed down, boarded up.  I see businesses that have existed for decades or longer closed.   I often hear friends and neighbors talking about losing their homes or their jobs.  The fear and concern is very, very real.

People are hurting.  Is that Obama's fault...did he cause it?  Of course he did not cause it.  But the one thing he can do to HELP, maybe not FIX it, but HELP, that is...to butt the hell out of everyone's lives, he's not done.  Continued government spending at current levels, much less increases, spending that DEMANDS taxation of those left working, cannot win anything in a system that already exceeds the economic output of the nation.


« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 11:13:13 PM by ulthar » Logged

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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2012, 10:50:31 PM »

 the Dow has been essentially flat since the 90's.



if you add in inflation it gets much uglier. Gold has gone from 300 or less an ounce to nearly 2000 an ounce in that time courtesy of Greenspan then Bernanke.

"the lost decade" is an expression that you may have heard
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ulthar
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« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2012, 11:04:23 PM »


 the Dow has been essentially flat since the 90's.


True, but the question was specifically how are things now compared to 4 years ago.  No one that's looking at the data could possibly conclude that things are not worse now than 2008.

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Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
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RCMerchant
Bela
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« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2012, 05:35:42 AM »

The Presidident of the United States of America-
dam-
he cannot control the economy!!
Not possible.
No one can.
Its a monster that got out of control long ago.As far as inflation goes-blame Obama? BLAME YOURSELF.
Video games,fast food,cheapliving,-welfare,drugs-
we are a "LETS PARTY!" society-and its catching up with us.
What happened to farmers and factory workers?
I work in a factory.
NO ONE CARES. Bluesad
f**k Republicans,f**k Democrats.
f**k POLITICS!
MY FAMILY IS HUNGRY!
Come to Michigan!
CHECK IT OUT!

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Lugosi-"No. Dracula-never ends."





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RCMerchant
Bela
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« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2012, 05:47:31 AM »

Southwest Michigan is a very white trash hell. No jobbs. Nothiiiiing here.We are DYING.
Small towns are dying....f**k your god,come to the world of poor white trash,n****rs and spicks.
We LOVE each other.REALLY!
We still fight-of course-but we have the smarts to know that politics wont help us.
So we steal-and kill.
JUST LIKE GOVERMENTS.
 Bluesad
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ulthar
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« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2012, 11:45:26 AM »

Ronnie, please understand no one is saying Obama or any other president 'controls the economy.'  At least I am not.  I specifically said if he did anything we not even see a result from he did.

But, there are things that he CAN and DID do that will have long term effects.  He is intimately involved with the spending of public money...he has instituted programs and spent political capital to influence Congress to spend amounts that exceed the output of the entire US economic base.

Is he worse than Bush in this regard?  We could debate that, but honestly that debate does not interest me.  All I care about is the facts, and let me review the ones that are important to me:

(1) It was during Obama's first term that US national debt exceeded GDP.  Unless this comes down, the national economy WILL fail.  Period.   A nation simply cannot operate that way, just like your own home cannot operate that way.

(2) He has done NOTHING to check the growth in spending.  He spent more than Bush.  All indicators point to him spending more in the second term than he did in the first, especially if he perceives his re-election as validation for his spending policies.

This is not a D vs R issue.  In a way, it IS an "us vs them" issue, where the "us" is those of us, you and I included, that are effected by public spending policy that is damaging to the national economy and the "them" is ALL politicians that value their own reelection, power base or whatever over doing what is right for the nation.

I'm not saying I really would have been all that happy with a Romney victory.  Do I think he's really all that different from Obama?  No, certainly not on the issue of spending and government control.  You and I agree on the idea that "they" are pretty much all the same.

But don't think for a minute that what they do has no effect on our lives in the long term.  Look at the graph Lester posted and think about its implications.

This is important stuff.  I'm not arguing for Republican control of the same spending policies.  Please be clear on at least that point.  No matter what they say, neither party has a very good track record in recent years on this topic, and actions speak louder than words.
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Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
Bodie:      I've been giving myself shock treatments.
Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

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tracy
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« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2012, 01:10:21 PM »

The Presidident of the United States of America-
dam-
he cannot control the economy!!
Not possible.
No one can.
Its a monster that got out of control long ago.As far as inflation goes-blame Obama? BLAME YOURSELF.
Video games,fast food,cheapliving,-welfare,drugs-
we are a "LETS PARTY!" society-and its catching up with us.
What happened to farmers and factory workers?
I work in a factory.
NO ONE CARES. Bluesad
f**k Republicans,f**k Democrats.
f**k POLITICS!
MY FAMILY IS HUNGRY!
Come to Michigan!
CHECK IT OUT!




RC....I can't seem to stop staring at Jack....what do I do?
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Yes,I'm fine....as long as I don't look too closely.
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